EwingsGlass wrote:

jaydh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:Interesting thing is that even with the top 5 protection, the Knicks offer was better than Cavs, because Cavs should be lower value picks than the Knicks as they should be the better team.

I was thinking about this as well. I believe once Rose threatened Ainge with a deadline then gave RJ $120 mil, Ainge was ready to get his picks and stick it to Rose. And he succeeded. He got his picks and put the pressure back on Rose.

Here’s a question. If Ainge was running the Knicks instead of Rose, how would the Knicks look right now 🤔

Personally I think the players Ainge got is better than what we tried to offer. And they also got more unprotected than what we offered. But I agree that the Knicks unprotected picks are more valuable than cavs unprotected. But ainge knew that Rose wasn’t moving off his position so he moved on to a slightly worse deal.

Eh, I think the Knicks players involved in the offer are better then the ones given in the Cleveland package. An unproven rookie who I was never really high on, a bench forward and a combo guard of questionable value? You can also make the case that the Cavs picks aren't that much better than the Dallas, Detroit or Milwaukee picks the Knicks own.

It comes off as Ainge being upset that Rose wouldn't bend to his demands so he went elsewhere for a worse package to "stick it to em".

Objectively, I like the Cavs package better and would have chosen that over Schwinny Pooh’s detailed Knick package.

Adrian Wojnarowski: At the start of trade talks in July, New York offered Utah a Donovan Mitchell package including RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson and three unprotected first-round picks, sources tell ESPN. Jazz turned down that offer and Robinson signed a $60M extension to stay w/ NY.
Source: Twitter @wojespn

FDA Approved

KnickDanger wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:It seems like the majority of fans are ok with the Knicks not gutting all their assets. Of course the media are already bashing the Knicks for not giving into Ainge.

They do it to cover for the fact they all said he was going to the Knicks all summer and no one else was in the running. Then when it doesn’t happen, rather than question the accuracy of their reporting, they laugh at us for believing their stories

I haven’t been tuned in but I assume Stephen A has jumped right into his Knicks bash clown act. Berman’s reporting was muted but had a few little swipes tucked in. I did see a review of tweets aimed at New York for assuming Mitchell would be a Knick. That wasn’t us! It was the gasbags who as usual will take zero accountability for their BS.

They do it every time, they laugh at us for their stories being wrong- it’s surreal

Checked out Stephen A’s rant - pathetic and predictable. Surprised some fans are losing it. I guess they’re just giving the Pavlovian response. But how can you see not giving up all that it would take to get a very good but limited player as a disaster? This board is pretty sane!

I dont think one person on ultimateknicks was unhappy about this. I think its a no brainer not to trade what was mentioned I wish good luck to the Cavs and hope that we can stay tight. We made very good moves this offseason.

jskinny35 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:Ainge is an a-hole, plain and simple. His ego to expect to rape everyone in deals has further twisted the trade market. Yet, some sucker gives in and allows it, twice this off-season. DM wanted 3 teams, so what does Ainge do, first he states he isn't a player you can build a contender with, then demands a Durant-level trade package, and finally trades him to a team DM didn't list. I know he is doing what is best for his ego, I mean team. But, I truly believe he NEVER intended to trade with the Knicks.

Adrian Wojnarowski: At the start of trade talks in July, New York offered Utah a Donovan Mitchell package including RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson and three unprotected first-round picks, sources tell ESPN. Jazz turned down that offer and Robinson signed a $60M extension to stay w/ NY.
Source: Twitter @wojespn

FDA Approved

First off - can't stand Ainge but we have no idea what he was planning or willing to do. He got a good deal and I'm grateful this front office didn't give the final counteroffer of RJ, IQ/Grimes, Fournier and 3 unprotected 1st rounders + second rounders and another young player. We'd have a new set of problems had we did that trade.

I am shocked reading the initial trade from July - as I'm not sure what's more unbelievable - that we offered that much at the beginning stages or that Ainge passed on that deal? Either way - let's feel lucky as we still have all those picks, young players and odds are that at least one of them will take a step this season and also - another star player will become disgruntled sooner vs later.

Yes we kind of do. That July trade package is way better than the Cavs and exactly what he claimed he wanted. He was never trading with the Knicks, is obvious. He's a petty lil man. One I would insta hang up on in the future.

KnickDanger wrote:

JesseDark wrote:The thing to be upset about is not missing on trading for Mitchell but why we didn't draft him coming out of college. We selected Frank picked up Dennis Smith and all the talking heads are saying we f'ed up by not getting Michell now. Whoever was the 4th guard selected in that draft class look out you are next.

So you and who else said we should draft Mitchell?

KnickDanger wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

JesseDark wrote:The thing to be upset about is not missing on trading for Mitchell but why we didn't draft him coming out of college. We selected Frank picked up Dennis Smith and all the talking heads are saying we f'ed up by not getting Michell now. Whoever was the 4th guard selected in that draft class look out you are next.

So you and who else said we should draft Mitchell?

They were looking for a triangle fit pt guard at the time, so I get why they went Frank. Since this is all hindsight nothing wrong in pointing out we could've had him in the '17 draft.

I remember that draft well. People freaked that we picked Frank over DSJ. If we had picked Mitchell instead people would have freaked more. Stephen A would have probably blown up. And yeah in hindsight “Knicks shoulda” but there’s also the unknown of how Mitchell would have developed in the swamp that was the Knicks at that time.

Revisionist BS.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1565425087351865347

Swishfm3 wrote:Funny reading all the mad posts about Ainge trying to fleece the Knicks.....like he was supposed to do us a favor or something, lol.
The man's main asking price was UNPROTECTED picks...Knicks couldn't do that but Cleveland did. boom.

IMO, the players involved is irrelevant because its subjective (RJ, Obi, Robinson = Lauri Markkanen, Ochair Agbaji, Collin Sexton).

Personally....The Knicks should have pulled the trigger on this. The organization stock piles picks in order to be able to make a move this and when the opportunity finally presents itself, they balk.

IDK about the players offered being equal. Their best players cant stay healthy. RJ has been an ironman in minutes, and availability. Agree Im not buying either that Ainge was going to say no to all offers. If his team were in the East maybe. Ainge's history with the Knicks, a division rival, I believe made him less willing to agree to a trade. Not to the point where he would refuse all offers. Ownership probably wouldnt appreciate it.

Knicks receive:
2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
2023 first round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)

Thunder receive:
No. 11 pick (Ousmane Dieng)

Firstly, not all protected picks are created equal. You have ones where the protection is static, it goes down, or they eventually convert to second rounders.

Second, it's not impossible that these 3 picks eventually convert at a higher average draft position than the Cavs 3 unprotected picks.

The Denver pick and second rounders were sent out for the number 13 and then sent to Detroit with Kemba for the Milwaukee pick.

My point being that just in raw totals of 1 st round picks (3):

Ousmane Dieng, Kemba, 4 second round picks= Donovan Mitchell

Of course we can argue about swaps, unprotected vs protected, and whether the picks actually convert, but all of that is pretty ancillary. The Jazz are betting after the Mitchell trade the long term prospects for the Cavs remain the same (play-in team) while the Knicks are betting Detroit and Washington get slightly better and Milwaukee doesn't get into the draft and then get lucky.

To me, what stands out is the amount of time executives have to think these 3 deals. Over the summer Ainge and Rose can mull over the value of protection on a far distant draft pick whereas at the trade deadline or at the start of FA or draft night people are primarily just going with their gut reactions.

For those gut reactions, a lot depends on previous goodwill team executives have. You are more inclined to get a deal done with someone you like.

I really think better deals will come along in the future and now the league is on notice that the Knicks are willing to move major assets for a super star. The parameters of the next deal have already been set. 20 games into the season the value of the Knicks protected picks will be a lot clearer, potentially expanding the Knicks war chest. Hopefully it's just a matter of time and pressure for the Knicks to get into the next big trade.