Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

I'd also add that most Knicks blogs support the idea of trading Randle reflects the common fans. These writers aren't pulling it out of thin air. To me it's clear that Randle is the team's best player. He was all NBA last season. Anyone saying otherwise is making judgements based on stats or efficiency which don't bear out on the court. Him playing the most minutes with the highest usage ipso facto proves the point. If other players and Thibs are ceding him possessions it begs the question why would they unless they are themselves convinced that a ****ty fade away isn't a better option than they themselves could manufacture. You don't have to be genius to figure out why Robinson doesn't shoot it 50 times a game.

Fans mentioning Randle as the best player on the Knicks roster knows very little about NBA B.Ball !!!
The 37 yr old Taj Gibson are a much better PF than Randle. D.Rose & Gibson pick n roll scores 9 out of 10 times.
Randle's poor pick n roll hasn't worked with any of the Knicks many PG in 3 seasons.
Because Fizdale and the Knicks has had Randle playing the PG position for 3 seasons.

I wonder if these Randle fans could tell us who the best player on the top winning team in the Atlantic Division during 2022-23 season? Embiid? Harris? PJ Tucker? Harden? Maxey? Recall Maxey played consistently on the next level last season.
Or how well the Miami Heats will do in the 2022-23 season if Jimmy Butler, or Bam Adebayo only plays 60 games?

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

I'd also add that most Knicks blogs support the idea of trading Randle reflects the common fans. These writers aren't pulling it out of thin air. To me it's clear that Randle is the team's best player. He was all NBA last season. Anyone saying otherwise is making judgements based on stats or efficiency which don't bear out on the court. Him playing the most minutes with the highest usage ipso facto proves the point. If other players and Thibs are ceding him possessions it begs the question why would they unless they are themselves convinced that a ****ty fade away isn't a better option than they themselves could manufacture. You don't have to be genius to figure out why Robinson doesn't shoot it 50 times a game.

C’mon. You have to recognize the logical flaw in the argument you just used. Because he takes the shots they must be good? That they made Barrett primary ball handler disproves your point immediately. Randle is All NBA defense in my book and his offensive woes overshadow his defensive prowess. He has every ability to be All NBA, but let’s not validate bad shots simply because he took them.

To say that stats and efficiency don’t bear out on the court is idiotic. Look at eFG and winning percentage. They are pretty damn correlated. Hopes and feelings are the thing that don’t pan out on the court.

I think he can have a great season, but for the Knicks to put score their opponents, they need to score more efficiently. Brunson brings that in spades.

A career 50% efg% is higher than Kobe or AI. It's great that we have JB to run the offense now but let's be honest and admit that except for the times with Rose Randle has been driving the offense for the past 3 seasons with all the commensurate attention that entails. There's a.reason why the only net positive player he shared time with last season was IQ. He as much as anyone else needs help getting good looks.

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

I'd also add that most Knicks blogs support the idea of trading Randle reflects the common fans. These writers aren't pulling it out of thin air. To me it's clear that Randle is the team's best player. He was all NBA last season. Anyone saying otherwise is making judgements based on stats or efficiency which don't bear out on the court. Him playing the most minutes with the highest usage ipso facto proves the point. If other players and Thibs are ceding him possessions it begs the question why would they unless they are themselves convinced that a ****ty fade away isn't a better option than they themselves could manufacture. You don't have to be genius to figure out why Robinson doesn't shoot it 50 times a game.

C’mon. You have to recognize the logical flaw in the argument you just used. Because he takes the shots they must be good? That they made Barrett primary ball handler disproves your point immediately. Randle is All NBA defense in my book and his offensive woes overshadow his defensive prowess. He has every ability to be All NBA, but let’s not validate bad shots simply because he took them.

To say that stats and efficiency don’t bear out on the court is idiotic. Look at eFG and winning percentage. They are pretty damn correlated. Hopes and feelings are the thing that don’t pan out on the court.

I think he can have a great season, but for the Knicks to put score their opponents, they need to score more efficiently. Brunson brings that in spades.

A career 50% efg% is higher than Kobe or AI. It's great that we have JB to run the offense now but let's be honest and admit that except for the times with Rose Randle has been driving the offense for the past 3 seasons with all the commensurate attention that entails. There's a.reason why the only net positive player he shared time with last season was IQ. He as much as anyone else needs help getting good looks.

Game changed now that we understand the role of statistics in sports better.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

Look from 1996 through today. League wide eFG (not separated by position) has increased by about 60bps from about 470 to 530. At his prime, Kobe was hitting 50% eFG from the guard position mostly based on his ability to finish at the rim. If you are below .530 today, you are a bit below average. Average players will outscore you.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/duglust/status/1569735655680516097

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

I'd also add that most Knicks blogs support the idea of trading Randle reflects the common fans. These writers aren't pulling it out of thin air. To me it's clear that Randle is the team's best player. He was all NBA last season. Anyone saying otherwise is making judgements based on stats or efficiency which don't bear out on the court. Him playing the most minutes with the highest usage ipso facto proves the point. If other players and Thibs are ceding him possessions it begs the question why would they unless they are themselves convinced that a ****ty fade away isn't a better option than they themselves could manufacture. You don't have to be genius to figure out why Robinson doesn't shoot it 50 times a game.

C’mon. You have to recognize the logical flaw in the argument you just used. Because he takes the shots they must be good? That they made Barrett primary ball handler disproves your point immediately. Randle is All NBA defense in my book and his offensive woes overshadow his defensive prowess. He has every ability to be All NBA, but let’s not validate bad shots simply because he took them.

To say that stats and efficiency don’t bear out on the court is idiotic. Look at eFG and winning percentage. They are pretty damn correlated. Hopes and feelings are the thing that don’t pan out on the court.

I think he can have a great season, but for the Knicks to put score their opponents, they need to score more efficiently. Brunson brings that in spades.

A career 50% efg% is higher than Kobe or AI. It's great that we have JB to run the offense now but let's be honest and admit that except for the times with Rose Randle has been driving the offense for the past 3 seasons with all the commensurate attention that entails. There's a.reason why the only net positive player he shared time with last season was IQ. He as much as anyone else needs help getting good looks.

Game changed now that we understand the role of statistics in sports better.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

Look from 1996 through today. League wide eFG (not separated by position) has increased by about 60bps from about 470 to 530. At his prime, Kobe was hitting 50% eFG from the guard position mostly based on his ability to finish at the rim. If you are below .530 today, you are a bit below average. Average players will outscore you.

Interesting stuff.
1st five years it goes up 30pts, then levels out. Then another surge in the last few years. Pace dropped some. NOt sure anyting jumps off the page other than it proves we should Dump Randle? LOL

no wonder folks like Obi and Grimes so much. Glad Brunson has good efg! And I hope we can see everyone improve, include Randle and RJ.

Jimbo5 wrote:After being pushed in the role of being the main man for the Knicks, can Randle accept a role similar to what he did with the Pelicans? The main concern with Jalen, RJ and Randle is that this starting 5 has these 3 players that are high usage players. Maybe if Randle can differ more to RJ without sulking we know Jalen can co-exist with Luka, this roster might have a chance of working out.

I do want to see Jalen, IQ, RJ/Grimes, Obi and Hart on the floor.

That last lineup will shoot the lights out. Curious how it looks on defense.

In a 5 on 5

Brunson/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson

Vs

IQ/Grimes/Reddish/Toppin/Hart

I might have to pick the second unit. (I left Rose out cause the team he is on will clearly win)

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm going to hang my ass out there that posters on this site are underestimating Randle's worth, taking about him like a salary dump or for a late first round pick. I think he's going to bounce off last year's lows and if he gets traded Knicks should get some value in return.
Bookmark that and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Sign me up too. It wasn’t long ago that he made the Knicks relevant again. He had help, but he was THE MAN.

I have zero doubts he’s working his ass off to be more effective this season.

Do not think there are many on here that don't agree. It's just that the ones that are positive Obi is ready to start or don't like the speed of his ascension, are the ones more vocal. As are the ones that are still hurt by Randle's frustrated response to the crowd. Especially the ones that scream out vulgarities at every game but got their panties in a wad when he did the same. Despite what the bing bong crowd/ blog media say, the FO is not going to "Dump" Randle for scraps. They are pros.
Randle definitely needs to work on sharing the ball, do less dribbling up the court and better shot selection. But he has produced year after year and is still young. Obviously works hard in the off season. However, do feel this year will be a test to see if he can fit long term. As it is for several of our players.

My biggest hope is that RJ, JB and Randle all work together and speed up their touches. Many have not seen JB play, but he also has a tendency to look mostly for his offense, over dribble and hold the ball. Which means it will be a long season if they all do the same. Hoping they can make a commitment to setting each other up and making quick decisions with the ball. Think they can but it may take time. Especially because sometimes players over compensate and pass TOO much. Once they find a balance, they should transfer that individual ability into team success.

I don't know what forum you are reading, but on UK, every thread ends up in a salary dump trade of Randle.

It's nice to see him showing signs of wanting to be here.

I'd also add that most Knicks blogs support the idea of trading Randle reflects the common fans. These writers aren't pulling it out of thin air. To me it's clear that Randle is the team's best player. He was all NBA last season. Anyone saying otherwise is making judgements based on stats or efficiency which don't bear out on the court. Him playing the most minutes with the highest usage ipso facto proves the point. If other players and Thibs are ceding him possessions it begs the question why would they unless they are themselves convinced that a ****ty fade away isn't a better option than they themselves could manufacture. You don't have to be genius to figure out why Robinson doesn't shoot it 50 times a game.

C’mon. You have to recognize the logical flaw in the argument you just used. Because he takes the shots they must be good? That they made Barrett primary ball handler disproves your point immediately. Randle is All NBA defense in my book and his offensive woes overshadow his defensive prowess. He has every ability to be All NBA, but let’s not validate bad shots simply because he took them.

To say that stats and efficiency don’t bear out on the court is idiotic. Look at eFG and winning percentage. They are pretty damn correlated. Hopes and feelings are the thing that don’t pan out on the court.

I think he can have a great season, but for the Knicks to put score their opponents, they need to score more efficiently. Brunson brings that in spades.

A career 50% efg% is higher than Kobe or AI. It's great that we have JB to run the offense now but let's be honest and admit that except for the times with Rose Randle has been driving the offense for the past 3 seasons with all the commensurate attention that entails. There's a.reason why the only net positive player he shared time with last season was IQ. He as much as anyone else needs help getting good looks.

Game changed now that we understand the role of statistics in sports better.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

Look from 1996 through today. League wide eFG (not separated by position) has increased by about 60bps from about 470 to 530. At his prime, Kobe was hitting 50% eFG from the guard position mostly based on his ability to finish at the rim. If you are below .530 today, you are a bit below average. Average players will outscore you.

Without a doubt. For qualified players Randle was at the bottom of the league. There's more to it than just shooting. Defense, rebounding, passing are just as important- all areas where Randle is better than average. My main bone to pick is with the endless "trade Randle" crowd. It seems to me that the path towards contention runs through Randle. There's a pretty strOng correlation between not only Randle s shooting but also his team wins when playing with a PG averaging more than 4 assists a game. It just seems idiotic to me that we would trade Randle before first seeing how he and JB mesh on the court.