I keep reading most americans want greater background checks.
Make Assault weapons illegal.

What happens next is talking head right wingers lose their **** that Libs coming for the guns and its gets mucked up. Just like on these pages.
Why they lose it? Because once you start its thought Dems want all the guns out.
Make it an issue before elections. Same for abortion.

jskinny35 wrote:As pointed out by other posters - there are so many variables impacting gun violence at schools that to try to simplify it down to one is just a waste of time. Sure every bit helps but part of the reason their is so much divide and polarization is because there is no simple answer.

Not sure how one side can claim it's not realistic to remove guns from the bad people but believe it's realistic to arm teachers successfully. There are so many considerations that these type of statements show such a lack of insight which makes it difficult to debate with a person that is lacking in this area. It's the same struggle to argue with someone who believe that it all comes down to 3% being better vs 0%...

Think if there was a task force/committee that would go public and open up dialogue - we would work more collaboratively, effectively and offer some hope for the future generations... this will take time IMO.

How did we get here?
What are the contributing variables to these issues?
What is likely to happen in the future with no change/effort?
What should be done to correct/improve the situation?
If we envision these variables are addressed - how do things look now? Do new considerations emerge as the result of the shift?
Identify barriers to implementation and action
Use sample sizes and gather data
Evaluate and adjust

Lots of people aren't looking for debate. They are buying as many guns as they can get their hands on. And those numbers are just the legal sales. Nearly 50 million firearm sales in 2 and a half years is a staggering number. This doesn't include all the illegal sales, private sales, ghost guns, kit built guns and 3D printed guns.

Do you want a task force/committee? Go ahead. And lots of Americans will tune you right out and tune politicians right out and keep buying guns in record numbers. The four videos I showed above show there's all kinds of different views over "Defund The Police", which is a catalyst for many gun buyers to go buy more firearms, many from well meaning people. But let's get real here. Some civilians patrolling on bicycles at night with reflector vests and armed only with a cell phone, in zones where police don't go anymore, is a recipe for slaughter going against real street gangs who have a ****load of real firepower. But those videos also show working class black small business owners saying no police and all the extra violence is making their business and ability to earn a living suffer. Where is the "social justice" in that?

The complexity of gun control/gun laws/gun regulation at the ground level for communities has a lot of variables to it.

But that the Democratic Party needs to win a ****load of elections and keep winning them to get the gun laws that some of you say you want is painfully simple.

Those are two entirely different things. Biden's approval ratings have gone through the basement. The only thing that might be saving him is lots of Americans are simply more terrified at the idea of Kamala Harris will be next in line to run the country, because she's extremely unpopular and despised too.

You need popular support to win lots of election and you can't do that when you have this many scandals and failures on your plate ( Border Crisis, Afghanistan, Education, Lack of civil order and public safety, inflation/economy, no baby formula, gasoline/energy crisis, etc, etc) Even the hot button issues aren't working out so great for Biden and Harris. Lots of Americans don't support late term abortions and no parental notification on minors having abortions, which was built within the Woman's Health Protection Act that was just recently pushed forward. You don't have those majorities, you don't get your laws passed and upheld. What's so complicated about that?

A lot of people, from all spectrums - old , young, rich, poor, white, black, yellow, man, woman,"they/them", Democrat, Republican, Moderate, educated, uneducated, religious, non religious, fat, thin, ugly, good looking, whatever - are just buying guns. They don't want to hear politicians dick around anymore with their endless "dialogue".

Part of the problem I see here is some of you believe because you are personally "sick of guns" that this should apply to every other American. The numbers just don't bear that out. People who have never touched a gun in their life are showing with their actual wallets and purchases that they love guns. Or will tolerate them as an unpleasant necessity in their own view to keep their family safe.

3 percent, or whatever percent of a difference, is enough for them. You might think they lack some insight. And that's OK, that's your opinion. Their opinion might be that you could show up in a "police free zone" on a bicycle in the middle of the night trying to stop some gang bangers and drug dealers and get the top of your head blown off. That's their opinion.

That's the thing about career criminal scum. They will gun you down if you have bad intentions and they will gun you down if you have good intentions. They are equal opportunity and bi partisan about ****ing over working class people and slaughtering them.

Go on, go into a zone like in those videos above where those criminals know the cops aren't showing up, and they know you don't have a gun yourself and pedal your bicycle at them in a dark alley while holding up your cell phone light and some stern language and see what happens.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-shooting-oklahoma-news.amp.html

BRIGGS wrote:I shot a shotgun for skeet when I was 7 and never touched another 1 again. Ive always hated guns. The only people who should have guns are the police and military and in the future NO ONE. Please let a common sense prevail here no more

I worked for D.o.D <naval, ..then army contracts 22 yrs> in peace time and regardless of how Gun laws was then the World was less crazy.
Military folks .. are some of coolest folks to meet, however the Guns issue is out of control. USA has Gun control OUT of control
NOT an easy fix with the Battle royal of Democrats vs Republicans ..CANT agree on Sh_^*$t !

Easier to get Gun permit, Military Arms and Guns magazine.. than to get College education Or a Job and healthcare.
THIS is AMERICA now ?
Really ? the greatest country in the world ?

Kids should not be in position to be slain in schools , I cried bit seeing the custom Caskets coffins made for little kids.
I got two teenagers boy & girl and one grown daughter in S.F. out west.

NO ONE in political leadership cares enough and USA makes excuse for the political parties for every single thing, even for the NRA WHOM is rich $$$$
NRA isn't going to die and laws protecting the Rich.

Sad state of affairs getting works, 2022 First Buffalo NY, then now Texas
and today earlier Tulsa Oklahoma.

I Can't take it anymore .... Begin the prayers for rest of your lifes each day
as long as we're americans.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-shooting-oklahoma-news.amp.html

From 1966 to 2019, 77 percent of mass shooters obtained the weapons they used in their crimes through legal purchases, according to a comprehensive survey of law enforcement data, academic papers and news accounts compiled by the National Institute of Justice, the research wing of the Justice Department, and released earlier this year.

The number of people killed by mass shooters with legal guns is a tiny fraction of a percentage of total murders, and compared to hundreds of millions of victims of tyrannical governments it is even more microscopic. Obviously, this is no comfort at all to the victims of mass shootings, but we do not ban cars over highway fatalities, do we?

And then, while the data is admittedly very hazy, it is possible that over half the crimes involving the use of a firearm are committed with illegally obtained guns.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/12/john-faso/do-illegal-gun-owners-commit-most-gun-crime-rep-fa/

About 48 percent of state prison inmates surveyed said they got the gun they used from a family member, friend, gun store, pawn shop, flea market, or gun show. Most states only require a background check if the purchase happens at a gun store, according to the Giffords Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-shooting-oklahoma-news.amp.html

From 1966 to 2019, 77 percent of mass shooters obtained the weapons they used in their crimes through legal purchases, according to a comprehensive survey of law enforcement data, academic papers and news accounts compiled by the National Institute of Justice, the research wing of the Justice Department, and released earlier this year.

The number of people killed by mass shooters with legal guns is a tiny fraction of a percentage of total murders, and compared to hundreds of millions of victims of tyrannical governments it is even more microscopic. Obviously, this is no comfort at all to the victims of mass shootings, but we do not ban cars over highway fatalities, do we?

And then, while the data is admittedly very hazy, it is possible that over half the crimes involving the use of a firearm are committed with illegally obtained guns.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/12/john-faso/do-illegal-gun-owners-commit-most-gun-crime-rep-fa/

This is where I get reminded of an old Russian joke:

A guy walks home one night and as he approaches his entrance, he sees his same-floor neighbor crawiling around a streetlight. He asks him: "What are you doing?" The neighbor answers: "I lost my apartment keys on the staircase, and I am looking for them". The guy wonders: "If you lost your keys on the staircase, then why are you looking for them here, around the streetlight?" To which the neighbor says: "It is easer to look for them here because there is more light and I can see better."

By analogy, the government is going after legal guns because it is easy, and you can demonstrate real progress and score political points quickly by just passing new restrictive laws and harrasing obedient law-abiding citizens. Tackling illegal guns and criminals who use them for nefarious purposes them is tough, it requires continuous and dangerous work, and results are slow and uneven. So no one wants to do it. No one even wants to properly analyze the data.

Same with immigration: the system in the US is actually rigged to encourage illegal immigration because the legal path is way too complex and convoluted courtesy of the "tough on immigration" lot.

Agree that politicians only want to keep power and score points. And that his is a very complex problem that includes mental mental issues. However I would give you another analogy:

Lets say you have a car and you notice a wheel is lose but you say to yourself "Hey its not so bad cuz it still is working and I have three others. Then you notice your engine starts to hesitate and shoot out black smoke. so you say "hey its okay cuz it is still running". Then your steering starts to veer drastically to the right so you say "hey I can probably still steer it straight by steering to the left" Your lights go so you say "hey I can still drive it during the day and on lit streets" You conclude that there is so much wrong with this car that why even fix the obvious and simple issues. Although there are so many possible complicated aspects to a problem, why not fix the ones that are easy to correct and just take some common sense? Saying they are complicated and doing nothing only makes things worse.

The things that will make this problem change is if we all realize that this is not just a problem on TV. That it will affect us and our loved ones if we do nothing. That guns and violence are not the solution. It will take us showing politicians that the majority of Americans want common sense guns laws. The problem is that many Americans still do not see the gun issue as a problem. Nor one that will ever affect them at home. They are the ones driving the car mentioned above. And until it crashes and burns they will act like it is not something they should be concerned with. All that we can do is take action and vote for politicians that support common sense gun laws and hope the rest eventually come around.

BigDaddyG wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:I personally believe that licensing for guns that is similar or even stricter than driving licenses is the most sensible approach. But just because your POS relative can still take your car and drive it while his license is suspended does not mean we should ban all cars and instead get folks to ride bikes, buses and horse carriages, or take long-distance speed-running lessons. Although the prospects of this are not far off any more.

But it happens. Certain motor vehicles are banned or require alterations before they're allowed on thee road. There are speed limits. it's not out of the question to put restrictions on the type of firearms we're allowed to purchase.

Sure, anything that is not so old and decrepit as to represent a hazard of causing unintended injuries and of polluting the environment.

You know how you still love BRIGGS after his scouting takes? It's the same here but within a different landscape.

You somehow came to a conclusion and then tried to work your way backwards via some videos and well absorbed talking points and layered on some defensiveness about our country's underlying racism problems. That's a big nut sitting there waiting to be cracked but certainly by a much better person than me. Less firehouse and more intake man but what do I know.

Maybe Marv can help me out. I'm always flabbergasted when this comes up.

TripleThreat wrote:Though I find it personally hilarious that I keep posting videos of the wide diversity of gun ownership and that it pretty much negates the entire White Nationalism / Pro 2nd Amendment smear that is so often thrown around. This is the 34th month in a row that gun sales to civilians in America has surpassed a million firearms total, a record. Most of you might not want to hear this, but Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and their policies have forced them into the role of Gun Sales People Of The Month again and again for a year and a half! Nothing is making everyday working class people want to buy more guns than the terror they feel from Biden being in charge and Harris being his backup.

mattshaw78 wrote:This country is the only country with this many problems with shootings of this nature. We have poor gun laws and mental health. Someone that debated with me said that teachers should have guns. My response was 1)police have problems being properly trained for it can you imagine a teacher 2)what if a student gets a hold of the gun from the teacher 3)what if a teacher shot a kid in a crossfire and 4)how does a teacher with a hand gun defend from a nutcase with a semi. His response was well hire ex-military as teachers. Ummm there is so many responses I can say to that.

A lot of politicians will fall back to right to carry arms. Ok if you want to carry a hand gun that is your choice however, why would you need to carry a semi or have body armor. Even hunting there is no reason to have that kind of fire power. Politicians mostly need to the votes and funding from the NRA so they would never cause conflict to disturb that cash flow or votes.

you are right that the only groups that are benefiting with arming teachers are the gun companies getting kickback for supplying guns to school, the nra and the nra backed politicians that are getting money from the nra. when money takes precedent over community safety thats a problem. then they say its mental health just to make the excuse BUT they have no solutions for it as these shootings pile up. mental health? fine! lets look into stronger universal health care to get them help. NO! that is socialism. ok, then let schools teach social and emotional learning to kids. NO! the teachers just teach the math, language arts, science and "real" history ( which is another issue in itself) and the parents are in charge of that ( though they will teach us how to shoot paper targets with a handgun). excuses but NO solutions so the hamster wheel keeps spinning.

HofstraBBall wrote:

jazz74 wrote:

mattshaw78 wrote:This country is the only country with this many problems with shootings of this nature. We have poor gun laws and mental health. Someone that debated with me said that teachers should have guns. My response was 1)police have problems being properly trained for it can you imagine a teacher 2)what if a student gets a hold of the gun from the teacher 3)what if a teacher shot a kid in a crossfire and 4)how does a teacher with a hand gun defend from a nutcase with a semi. His response was well hire ex-military as teachers. Ummm there is so many responses I can say to that.

A lot of politicians will fall back to right to carry arms. Ok if you want to carry a hand gun that is your choice however, why would you need to carry a semi or have body armor. Even hunting there is no reason to have that kind of fire power. Politicians mostly need to the votes and funding from the NRA so they would never cause conflict to disturb that cash flow or votes.

you are right that the only groups that are benefiting with arming teachers are the gun companies getting kickback for supplying guns to school, the nra and the nra backed politicians that are getting money from the nra. when money takes precedent over community safety thats a problem. then they say its mental health just to make the excuse BUT they have no solutions for it as these shootings pile up. mental health? fine! lets look into stronger universal health care to get them help. NO! that is socialism. ok, then let schools teach social and emotional learning to kids. NO! the teachers just teach the math, language arts, science and "real" history ( which is another issue in itself) and the parents are in charge of that ( though they will teach us how to shoot paper targets with a handgun). excuses but NO solutions so the hamster wheel keeps spinning.

Ex con needs a gun....no problem.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1534399959092559873

Guess the judge should have been better prepared with an AR-15.