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Nalod
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4/9/2022  11:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/9/2022  11:13 AM
SergioNYK wrote:Very proud of Obi. These last few games were like his personal playoffs and he's taken full advantage of it! I think he's proving he's no Knox or Ntilikina and just needs a consistent role and minutes. He's pretty much made it super easy for me to go ahead and trade Randle this summer. Obi isn't as good as Randle but who cares? With Obi, there are no mood swings or inconsistent lack of effort and he doesn't argue with the refs after every foul and doesn't have terrible body language. I really hope Leon and co. have seen enough to pull the trigger. Trade Randle for expiring's, I really do not care. It's not going to get better with him. Get back a serviceable PF, draft someone who can play spot minutes or sign a vet with the MLE to split time with Obi next season.

It's been a disappointing season overall but I love how our young guys are finishing the season. I think Thibs deserves some credit for the improvements of these kids. IQ has especially improved A LOT. I still think we need a PG but IQ deserves a lot of minutes. He's earned it. Love Sims as well! He sets great picks and his passing is underrated. There is no need to spend $18M on Robinson this summer. The gap between Sims and Robinson isn't that imo.

Really hope RJ is OK. It was a good sign he was able to put weight on that leg and walk it off. But his season is over and I'm super proud of the jump he made in year 3. I have zero doubts or second thoughts of giving him that max extension. Like Breen mentioned last night, I'm not sure what his ceiling is but he will get there. RJ has the perfect work ethic and personality for this city. Complete opposite of Randle.

Im not willing to indict randle after a this one season and dump him. Not knowing the full extent of his gumpiness. Why? If its fixible or an outside the court issue perhaps he can get it back.
This is no cartoon good vs evil thing. I can and do like them both. Im super happy Obi is finishing good and fate has it he got a string of games. Frank could not. Knox did not. That was then. This is now. Too bad Cam could not get on the court

Obi is the fresh flavor and he is playing without the weight of a new contract or to make good on his role. That chnges if he starts and Randle is gone. I like the kid a lot. Knicks have choices and perhaps opportunities the better our guys play.

AUTOADVERT
Marv
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4/9/2022  12:51 PM
Nalod wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Very proud of Obi. These last few games were like his personal playoffs and he's taken full advantage of it! I think he's proving he's no Knox or Ntilikina and just needs a consistent role and minutes. He's pretty much made it super easy for me to go ahead and trade Randle this summer. Obi isn't as good as Randle but who cares? With Obi, there are no mood swings or inconsistent lack of effort and he doesn't argue with the refs after every foul and doesn't have terrible body language. I really hope Leon and co. have seen enough to pull the trigger. Trade Randle for expiring's, I really do not care. It's not going to get better with him. Get back a serviceable PF, draft someone who can play spot minutes or sign a vet with the MLE to split time with Obi next season.

It's been a disappointing season overall but I love how our young guys are finishing the season. I think Thibs deserves some credit for the improvements of these kids. IQ has especially improved A LOT. I still think we need a PG but IQ deserves a lot of minutes. He's earned it. Love Sims as well! He sets great picks and his passing is underrated. There is no need to spend $18M on Robinson this summer. The gap between Sims and Robinson isn't that imo.

Really hope RJ is OK. It was a good sign he was able to put weight on that leg and walk it off. But his season is over and I'm super proud of the jump he made in year 3. I have zero doubts or second thoughts of giving him that max extension. Like Breen mentioned last night, I'm not sure what his ceiling is but he will get there. RJ has the perfect work ethic and personality for this city. Complete opposite of Randle.

Im not willing to indict randle after a this one season and dump him. Not knowing the full extent of his gumpiness. Why? If its fixible or an outside the court issue perhaps he can get it back.
This is no cartoon good vs evil thing. I can and do like them both. Im super happy Obi is finishing good and fate has it he got a string of games. Frank could not. Knox did not. That was then. This is now. Too bad Cam could not get on the court

Obi is the fresh flavor and he is playing without the weight of a new contract or to make good on his role. That chnges if he starts and Randle is gone. I like the kid a lot. Knicks have choices and perhaps opportunities the better our guys play.

Reasonable thoughts. It’s a risk either way with randle. I’m going to risk on letting him go. He was a marvel last year, deserved his contract and his role as leader this year – but he failed miserably at that imo.. which now adds up to 2 out of his 3 years here. The sour cherry on top was the super poor body language and effort that emerged this year. I’m risking on elevating our youth – not risking on julius’ return to greatness.

We went through a lot of growing pains with the youth and I see it as paying off. I love a core of rj, quick, grimes, deuce, obi, jericho, cam and mitch if he stays. We got picks, we got rokas eventually, we got a return on randle. Fournier can help. Rose can do spot duty. Noel can heal.

Randle looks like odd man out in this picture to me.

KnickDanger
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4/9/2022  1:39 PM
Marv wrote:
Nalod wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Very proud of Obi. These last few games were like his personal playoffs and he's taken full advantage of it! I think he's proving he's no Knox or Ntilikina and just needs a consistent role and minutes. He's pretty much made it super easy for me to go ahead and trade Randle this summer. Obi isn't as good as Randle but who cares? With Obi, there are no mood swings or inconsistent lack of effort and he doesn't argue with the refs after every foul and doesn't have terrible body language. I really hope Leon and co. have seen enough to pull the trigger. Trade Randle for expiring's, I really do not care. It's not going to get better with him. Get back a serviceable PF, draft someone who can play spot minutes or sign a vet with the MLE to split time with Obi next season.

It's been a disappointing season overall but I love how our young guys are finishing the season. I think Thibs deserves some credit for the improvements of these kids. IQ has especially improved A LOT. I still think we need a PG but IQ deserves a lot of minutes. He's earned it. Love Sims as well! He sets great picks and his passing is underrated. There is no need to spend $18M on Robinson this summer. The gap between Sims and Robinson isn't that imo.

Really hope RJ is OK. It was a good sign he was able to put weight on that leg and walk it off. But his season is over and I'm super proud of the jump he made in year 3. I have zero doubts or second thoughts of giving him that max extension. Like Breen mentioned last night, I'm not sure what his ceiling is but he will get there. RJ has the perfect work ethic and personality for this city. Complete opposite of Randle.

Im not willing to indict randle after a this one season and dump him. Not knowing the full extent of his gumpiness. Why? If its fixible or an outside the court issue perhaps he can get it back.
This is no cartoon good vs evil thing. I can and do like them both. Im super happy Obi is finishing good and fate has it he got a string of games. Frank could not. Knox did not. That was then. This is now. Too bad Cam could not get on the court

Obi is the fresh flavor and he is playing without the weight of a new contract or to make good on his role. That chnges if he starts and Randle is gone. I like the kid a lot. Knicks have choices and perhaps opportunities the better our guys play.

Reasonable thoughts. It’s a risk either way with randle. I’m going to risk on letting him go. He was a marvel last year, deserved his contract and his role as leader this year – but he failed miserably at that imo.. which now adds up to 2 out of his 3 years here. The sour cherry on top was the super poor body language and effort that emerged this year. I’m risking on elevating our youth – not risking on julius’ return to greatness.

We went through a lot of growing pains with the youth and I see it as paying off. I love a core of rj, quick, grimes, deuce, obi, jericho, cam and mitch if he stays. We got picks, we got rokas eventually, we got a return on randle. Fournier can help. Rose can do spot duty. Noel can heal.

Randle looks like odd man out in this picture to me.


The big question of course is how the FO sees it. Randle and Obi play the same position and thus far there wasn't any design to have them play together, so Randle got the minutes. Does the FO see one of then as expendable trade bait and if so what what would you get back? Do you sit down with Thibs and create a new strategy? To my mind you let one of them go. Randle would be the popular choice but there are other factors to consider.
ToddTT
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4/9/2022  7:24 PM

Hope this is accurate.

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
martin
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4/9/2022  9:18 PM
Loved loved loved this article. I don't get to read as much these days but insight into anything beyond what we can already see from watching games is the interesting parts for me.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/steve-popper/knicks-obi-toppin-ylit6jo7

Knicks' Obi Toppin has made huge strides, developed chemistry in second season
By Steve Popper

When Obi Toppin finished his night Friday by dunking a lob from Immanuel Quickley to give him a career-high 35 points, nearly doubling his previous best, it was one more opportunity for the huge contingent of fans who had been chanting his name all night to serenade him. But the “O-bi Top-pin” chants from the crowd at Capital One Arena were not as important as the praise that came from one voice afterward.

For two seasons, Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau has answered most questions about the athletic forward with praise but quickly pointed out the things that still needed to come for the former lottery pick. A windmill dunk that brought the fans out of their seats? Fine, but be in the right place on defense the next time downcourt.

But after the 81st game of the season and the fourth straight start for Toppin, Thibodeau could not help but smile when he was asked about the crowd reaction.

“He’s a great guy,” he said. “He's a very positive, upbeat, high-energy guy. Everyone loves Obi. We always kid, we were all worried when he got sick, and no one gives out more dabs than Obi.

“Every day, the thing that you love about him is he walks in the gym and he’s got energy. He walks onto the bus; he’s got energy. Your team can feed off that. He reminds me in some ways, not in the way they play but in the way they bounce in their attitude, [of] Taj [Gibson]. That was a young Taj. In the middle of winter, he’ll come in the gym, and that’s what you’d feel from Obi when he walks in the building. You’re like, OK, Obi’s here. You feel it.”

In a disappointing season that will end Sunday night with the Knicks falling short of the playoffs and far below .500 after last season’s fourth-seeded finish, the most complaints from the fans has been centered around the lack of playing time for Toppin while Julius Randle has endured a season far off the pace of last season. With Randle shut down for the season because of a quadriceps injury, in four starts heading to the finish, Toppin has scored 20, 20, 19 and 35 points, shooting 33-for-61 overall and 13-for-27 from three-point range.

In the eyes of Toppin's fans, the blame has fallen on Thibodeau, but Toppin has spent much of the season praising the coaching staff. And here’s the thing — the player the fans have seen in the last four games is not the same player Toppin was earlier in the season, and if he deserves the credit, so do the coaches.

Before the Knicks even begin practice sessions, Thibodeau gathers the team’s three rookies and two second-year players for what the team calls “early group” and runs through instructions to ready them for the opportunities to come.

“We just go over our plays,” Toppin said. “It's mainly for us to be great with our plays and know what we're doing when we get in the game. When we're playing together, all the young guys on the court together, it's easy because it's every single day before practice.”

“Honestly, it’s a good opportunity for all of us to work together,” Thibodeau said. “So you get a chance to see what each player is really good at. They get comfortable with each other and you know over the course of a long season everyone is going to get the opportunity to play. And so the challenge is to make sure everyone is ready when they get that opportunity.

“We saw stretches last year from [Quickley] and Obi, so we knew where they were, but our young guys right from the fall all the way through training camp, the way they practice — and that’s really the first step: to practice well. So you gain the trust of your teammates, but we saw how competitive they were and what they did. But I think they all benefit from [it]. You can see how they have great chemistry with each other. The ball hops around. They move without the ball. They know how to play off each other, and I think that's a byproduct of spending a lot of time with each other. They’re all great workers. Our young guys are off the charts in terms of work.”

There has been a change, too, in approach. Toppin said Thibodeau coaches him to think “shoot” first when he gets the ball. As a rookie last season, his default move was to look to the bench for a quick hook after any mistake. He said, “I still look at the bench. I’m not going to lie.” But he added that he is more at ease.

There still is a roadblock to his future in the form of Randle, who despite the criticism from the fans is a necessary part of the team. They play the same position, and Thibodeau’s efforts to put them on the floor together have not been a rousing success because the defense has suffered.

Asked if he thinks he and Randle could be this decade’s version of Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley, Toppin said, “That’s crazy.” And it is — that 1990s version of the Knicks featured a pair of elite defensive players. But Toppin does think there is a place for him and Randle together on the floor.

“Me and Jules actually talked about it,” Toppin said. “We definitely feel in today’s game that’s a big thing, just because a lot of teams are playing small. [A] lot of teams want to play fast, shoot threes, run the floor and just get out in transition. And I feel like when me and Jules are on the court, we’re definitely playing a lot faster. Either me or Jules can be in the paint or we can screen, roll. There are so many different things we can do when we’re on the court. We’ve definitely talked about it and hopefully we’re both back here next year and we can see that stuff.”

The real combination for Toppin is with his fellow second-year player, Quickley. If it is off the bench, then so be it, but there is chemistry among the pair that has come from the long hours off the court together, working with the coaching staff and spending the offseason in the gym and even with each other’s family.

“It’s great. Christmas, I went to his house. Had Christmas with his family,” Quickley said. “Super Bowl, watched it with his family. So same thing for me. If I’m not with my people, I’m pretty much with him. And then on the court, we can hold each other accountable. I can say, 'C’mon bruh, let’s get going,' or he can tell me the same thing and there’s no attitude or things like that. So it’s great. It’s great to have a brother like that on the floor.

“We see something in a game; I know when I get the ball, I’m already looking, because I know he’s sprinting and if I miss him, he’ll look at me on the bench like [makes a face], and then I’ll be like, I got you.”

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Kemet
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4/10/2022  12:32 AM
The Knicks two second season players Obi Toppin averaged 12 min a game, and Quickley averaged 18 min a game throughout the 2021-22 season. WHY?
In their rookie season Obi average 8 min, and Quickley 14 min, but their rookie chemistry as teammates were looking great on both sides of the court together (Toppin scoring off of Quickley's defense).

At the start of the Knicks 2021-22 regular season games, in the first 20 Knicks games the tandem of Quickley & Qbi Toppin lineup out-performed better than Randle & Barrett lineup in all 20 games. At the time fans then more Knicks fans kept saying they rather watch the Knicks bench lineup of Obi & Quickley rather than the Knicks starter lineup of Randle & Barrett. The Knicks head coach put all the blame of the sloppy performance from the starter lineup on Kemba Walker. And took Kemba Walker out of the Knicks rotation when the Knick had a 11-9 record.
The Knicks starter lineup of Randle & Barrett calling all the shots STINKED throughout the Knicks 2021-22 season.

MaTT4281
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4/10/2022  7:07 AM
Kemet wrote:The Knicks two second season players Obi Toppin averaged 12 min a game, and Quickley averaged 18 min a game throughout the 2021-22 season. WHY?
In their rookie season Obi average 8 min, and Quickley 14 min,

You're making up numbers and then asking WHY?

Obi
20-21. 11 mpg
21-22. 16.8 mpg (15 mpg if you want to back out the last 4)

Quickley
20-21. 19.4 mpg
21-22. 22.9 mpg

There may be valid gripe to minutes or rotations, but use the real numbers...

SergioNYK
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4/10/2022  9:44 AM
Nalod wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:Very proud of Obi. These last few games were like his personal playoffs and he's taken full advantage of it! I think he's proving he's no Knox or Ntilikina and just needs a consistent role and minutes. He's pretty much made it super easy for me to go ahead and trade Randle this summer. Obi isn't as good as Randle but who cares? With Obi, there are no mood swings or inconsistent lack of effort and he doesn't argue with the refs after every foul and doesn't have terrible body language. I really hope Leon and co. have seen enough to pull the trigger. Trade Randle for expiring's, I really do not care. It's not going to get better with him. Get back a serviceable PF, draft someone who can play spot minutes or sign a vet with the MLE to split time with Obi next season.

It's been a disappointing season overall but I love how our young guys are finishing the season. I think Thibs deserves some credit for the improvements of these kids. IQ has especially improved A LOT. I still think we need a PG but IQ deserves a lot of minutes. He's earned it. Love Sims as well! He sets great picks and his passing is underrated. There is no need to spend $18M on Robinson this summer. The gap between Sims and Robinson isn't that imo.

Really hope RJ is OK. It was a good sign he was able to put weight on that leg and walk it off. But his season is over and I'm super proud of the jump he made in year 3. I have zero doubts or second thoughts of giving him that max extension. Like Breen mentioned last night, I'm not sure what his ceiling is but he will get there. RJ has the perfect work ethic and personality for this city. Complete opposite of Randle.

Im not willing to indict randle after a this one season and dump him. Not knowing the full extent of his gumpiness. Why? If its fixible or an outside the court issue perhaps he can get it back.
This is no cartoon good vs evil thing. I can and do like them both. Im super happy Obi is finishing good and fate has it he got a string of games. Frank could not. Knox did not. That was then. This is now. Too bad Cam could not get on the court

Obi is the fresh flavor and he is playing without the weight of a new contract or to make good on his role. That chnges if he starts and Randle is gone. I like the kid a lot. Knicks have choices and perhaps opportunities the better our guys play.

It's not just this season. Randle was a pain in the ass his first season too. I'm just done with him. We're still building this roster and having a headache like him stalls the process imo. I don't see it getting better. I don't trust him. Get what you can get before he swings at a ref or teammate or does something stupid. Randle is a ticking timebomb.

ccch
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4/10/2022  11:51 AM
Toppin > Randle
ramtour420
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4/10/2022  12:07 PM
ccch wrote:Toppin > Randle

+1,000,000

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GameThread: Knicks Wiz, 7pm

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