PnR play, he is mechanical, just head towards the basket no matter what and he is not looking for or expecting the ball. Never engages space or knows what to do within space, ie go wide, delay, go fast, etc.

He is running back on D... just a straight line without noticing anything around him.

Heading up the court, same deal.

It's limiting for him.

martin wrote:The one thing that pops for me with Mitch is his head is never up looking around and engaged in whatever he is doing.

PnR play, he is mechanical, just head towards the basket no matter what and he is not looking for or expecting the ball. Never engages space or knows what to do within space, ie go wide, delay, go fast, etc.

He is running back on D... just a straight line without noticing anything around him.

Heading up the court, same deal.

It's limiting for him.

He seems to run with his head down not up. Whenever the play finishes the first thing he does is look at his feet. Maybe he's worried about tripping? He had 4 assists vs Memphis. None really stand out. I'm a big Steve Adams fan. There's a reason why Morant has made the leap. The big ? for me is if the Knicks had an above average PG, how would Robinson look. I think the team goes all in for Lillard this summer, but I'm not sure if we can keep Robinson.

franco12 wrote:has anyone looked at M Rob's numbers? His per 100 is 143 off / 106 def. He is top 8 for WS/48.

You cannot let him go unless you are willing to lose 70 games next year.

We're not supposed to mention advanced stats! But yes- importantly he's more or less hit those same numbers every year since his rookie season. Can you imagine him playing with a PG?

gradyandrew wrote:

franco12 wrote:has anyone looked at M Rob's numbers? His per 100 is 143 off / 106 def. He is top 8 for WS/48.

You cannot let him go unless you are willing to lose 70 games next year.

We're not supposed to mention advanced stats! But yes- importantly he's more or less hit those same numbers every year since his rookie season. Can you imagine him playing with a PG?

Do the advanced stats really paint a clear picture on Mitch?

I'm still waiting for you to build an argument and actually, you know, post his advanced stats to paint the picture you are trying to develop.

Include his usage.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

franco12 wrote:has anyone looked at M Rob's numbers? His per 100 is 143 off / 106 def. He is top 8 for WS/48.

You cannot let him go unless you are willing to lose 70 games next year.

We're not supposed to mention advanced stats! But yes- importantly he's more or less hit those same numbers every year since his rookie season. Can you imagine him playing with a PG?

Do the advanced stats really paint a clear picture on Mitch?

I'm still waiting for you to build an argument and actually, you know, post his advanced stats to paint the picture you are trying to develop.

Include his usage.

Are you calling me or grady out?

I'm just popping in here and it seems people are pretty cavalier about being able to simply replace Mitch with Simms or whomever else we pick up out of nowhere.

The numbers I think about are five - who are the five guys we're going to ask to make a difference when they are out on the court.

To me, warts and all, he is a difference maker we can slot in at the five. He's the right side of 30 and any contract we give him in the off season will be over before he is 30.

Let's call our Center position covered, and address the other gaping hole in the roster, our PG position.

I give him whatever contract I need to keep him, unless there is some other team willing to give me a boatload of assets in a trade.

I think the stats definitely paint a clear picture - he's a critical difference maker and there are teams he absolutely destroys.

Is that a picture?

Not you

gradyandrew wrote:This isn't rocket science, martin. You can navigate over to the basketball reference Knicks page and check out the advanced stats just as easy as I can. I'm sure you already have. win shares per 48 is a great stat Franco already posted he's number 8 in the league. If that and his Offensive/ defensive rating split, number 2 in offensive rebounds, and a top 5 defense in his minutes according to either ESPN or theringer doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure what will. I think his historically low usage ( I think bottom 20 in the league) seems like even more of an argument in his favor- imagine what he could do with a PG who can get him the ball.

I came away from the finals convinced that Aston was the best player on the Suns, maybe even both teams. The Suns won his minutes throughout the series. And Mitchell destroyed him in Phoenix. Offering him whatever contract he wants seems like a no brainer.

I am thinking the same thing about his usage. I think he should be involved every time down with a PNR or similar play where we attack the offense and give them an option of who they want to stop. Granted - it would help like a lot if Mitch could hit a mid range shot. I am confident he can develop that part of his game.

fishmike wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Because the Knicks won't have any cap space this summer, they can only offer him a similar contract to what THT got from the Lakers, I think it's 4 years for 48 million-ish. He might get a better offer from a team with cap space, but frankly I'm not sure how that works. Is the Gilbert Arenas rule still in effect? Is it like Jeremy Lin where there's a poison pill provision? I'm not sure. I keep hearing that max offer for a second round pick thrown around but I'm unsure if that's the max the Knicks can offer or the max Robinson can accept.

that is just for an extension. They can give him a much larger new contract because of bird rights

Right.

Grady, they don't have to use cap space, obviously other teams would.

jskinny35 wrote:I would match any offer up to $15m per year and if he doesn't get offers that high - I would offer him $12m. If he gets $15m or higher (or decides to leave) - of course we should go for a sign and trade. I see this happening with Dallas since they are reportedly interested and they have Brunson in possibly a similar situation.

I'm not sure it works like that. He's a UFA so I don't think the Knicks can match. Bird rights or not his max is capped at 48. If Detroit offers him a 60/4 contact, we are screwed. Robert Williams and Jarrett Allen are the baselines.

Teams lose players all the time without compensation. Sometimes you get caught in a squeeze. Fact is Leon, Perry, Aller whomever has figure in their head before during, and after the season based on what he is. I’d sign him to what ever it takes as long as I can trade him down the road. That seems to be the type of decison you want. Can you move him if someone became available?

I can bang my head on the table all day but I’d defer to Aller who gonna crunch the numbers. At the end of the day Mitch and his agent have to agree.

Me? I like his game but he has no offensive game. Can’t play him in last two minutes because his FT%. That keeps his price down. I don’t go over 15mil. But im guessing.