BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

wargames wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:Barrett inside ability to get to the rim in my opinion puts him at the 3. His perimeter shooting really took off in the second half last year (be nice to see 10 game samples vs whole season stats) but his inside prowess to penetrate at the 2 is not as effective. With his outside game improve it gets easier to get to the rim.
We talk about Bullock gone and Fornier in but is Evan the 3 or the 2?

Johnson taken at 19 likely says that teams see him as inexperienced needing time. If his character has diva qualities then he is not a top prospect. How do I know? 19th pick tells me this. Knicks have Knox for now. Do you keep two at the same time?
would this FO have taken knox knowing he was “low motor and super young”?
Kenny Payne might have all the answers to his outlook given he had him right out of high school. I know what the media answer is. We’ll find out if any of it plays out this season.

The Hawks have Huerter, Bogdon, Cam Reddish and Hunter on the wing, but that didn't stop them from taking Johnson @20, right after we moved our pick. The Hawks have really good management and have done a really good job of rebuilding that team. The Hawks took the best player on the board, regardless of position.

Because Johnson is a PF. They didn’t know if Collins was coming back and at PG they have Gallo a tweener forward and Okongwu who got limited minutes as a rookie. Maybe Jalen Johnson is a tweener forward too but he ironically enough plays a lot like James Johnson a good yet flawed bench PF. All of the SF’s were more or less gone by 19.

Maybe we’ll grab or trade for another SF. Maybe the combination of Fournier and RJ is enough. I really think this obsession with a PF because he might (though very unlikely) develop into a SF is a exercise in futility. Especially now in the wedge time betweeen summer league and preseason.

Even if Johnson projects as a PF, Hawks selected Okongwu who is a PF with a lotto pick the year before. So they picked a PF in back to back years. My point is, the Hawks grabbed the best player on the board, regardless of position. Not sure where you are getting obsession from me, just making conversation. We had 3 picks, and thought we could have used one of them to take a homerun swing at Johnson. The way the the draft shook-out, we could have walked away with Johnson, Grimes and McBride.

With that said, of course there is a chance that Johnson is a tweener and ends up being journeyman. That may be unforgivable in the top 8, but not so much @ 19 especially when you have 3 picks.

Okongwu was drafted as a center, with the potential of playing PF. I don't think they thought Capela would take off as much as they did. Also, you're saying the Knicks didn't grab the player they thought was the best player left on the board. Thibs was a big Grimes stan.

Okongwu can play either position. With that said, after the playoff run Collins had, it was set in stone that the Hawks were bringing him back. That was talk down here on all of the radio talk shows and still the Hawks grabbed Johnson.

As far as Grimes is concerned, we grabbed him at 25, not 19. My point is, with 3 picks, we could have selected the 2 players we wanted (Grimes and Deuce) and took a swing for the fences with Johnson.

Agree 100% this was similar to Michael Porter--a 6-9 SF who had high potential. But The Knicks had a plan and stuck to it.

foosballnick wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Okongwu can play either position. With that said, after the playoff run Collins had, it was set in stone that the Hawks were bringing him back. That was talk down here on all of the radio talk shows and still the Hawks grabbed Johnson.

As far as Grimes is concerned, we grabbed him at 25, not 19. My point is, with 3 picks, we could have selected the 2 players we wanted (Grimes and Deuce) and took a swing for the fences with Johnson.

I think it wasn't that simple. Coming off of a playoff year and into the draft the Knicks only had 6 projected keepers under contract (JR, RJ, IQ, Obi, Mitch & Knox). They had also signed Luca to a flex contract and as a wild card option. Given that roster make-up, do you take a swing and tie up $2.5M - $3M in cap space over 4 years on a kid to sit on the bench for 1-2 years because he hasn't shown he can play D and has a questionable motor, is a question in half court sets and makes questionable decisions with the ball ....... to a roster that already has 3 out of 6 signed guys at his size/position. One of which already needs to work in his D (Obi) and the other who has a questionable D and motor (Knox)? If I'm the Knicks FO - I'm likely avoiding JJ and focusing on high motor guards & wings who can defend to fit this roster. Which is exactly what they did. They even grabbed a high motor athletic defender at 58 to fill a B/up center need. In other words, there are 2 sides of the ball. We as fans seem to always focus on the upside view on offense, while the Knicks brass and coaching staff apparently places a lot more significant focus on defense and motor/effort.

Considering the scouting report on JJ below, I can understand why the Knicks did not draft him. Hawks Roster and rotation was much more secure at the time of the draft than the Knicks, so they could take a chance on a guy like this and sit him for a year or two.

Here's a scouting report from an Atlanta site on Johnson's weaknesses and potential fit with the Hawks (published prior to the draft)

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2021/7/28/22597224/2021-nba-draft-scouting-report-jalen-johnson-duke-analysis-video-atlanta-hawks-fit-rumors-news

While he flashed some highlight blocks and other game-changing types of player, the fundamentals of his defense simply aren’t good enough to combat NBA level big men right now, and his slow reactions at times on that end hurt him in bad moments. Similarly, his motor comes and goes on both ends, and he can sometime be found ball watching or late to react to a developing play or post move.

Despite his physical gifts, Jalen Johnson was not an aggressive scorer in the slightest, and he very much shied away from taking any jump shots at all. Johnson seemingly never looked for his shot in half court sets, and used his dribble to set up others while turning down decent opportunities for himself. He didn’t offer many attempts other than right at the rim, logging just 18 attempts from three — although he did hit eight of them for a 44.4% 3P% mark.

Johnson at times can get loose with his passing, as he averaged 4.3 turnovers per 36 minutes in his career. A lot of these stem from his love of difficult skip passes or passes across the teeth of the defense. He’ll learn in time to make the easy feed back out when he’s trapped on one side of the floor.

At his size of just 220 lbs., Johnson can also get pushed around in the post. Has to get stronger, especially in his base to contend in on either end going forward. While his free throw rate (FTr) — a ratio of free throws taken to field goal attempts — of .349 was decent, someone with his ability should be able to get to the line much more often.

Possible fit with the Atlanta Hawks

Johnson has had a confounding amateur career. He has elite talent in some key areas and yet it’s entirely possible those talents don’t translate into much at the next level. At his size, Johnson will come into the league as a combo forward, but it’s rare to be effective playing that role in the modern NBA without any floor stretching ability whatsoever.

For the Hawks, I think Johnson would be a take at No. 20 with the caveat that he’s highly unlikely to contribute anything at all in his rookie season. It will take some growth in the weight room and in the practice gym to become an NBA rotation level player initially. But the high school pedigree and skillset suggests the potential is there to be tapped at the ripe young age of 19. Maybe a steady NBA environment will be all that Jalen Johnson needs to succeed.

Great Post!!!

While he flashed some highlight blocks and other game-changing types of player, the fundamentals of his defense simply aren’t good enough to combat NBA level big men right now, and his slow reactions at times on that end hurt him in bad moments. Similarly, his motor comes and goes on both ends, and he can sometime be found ball watching or late to react to a developing play or post move.

Despite his physical gifts, Jalen Johnson was not an aggressive scorer in the slightest, and he very much shied away from taking any jump shots at all. Johnson seemingly never looked for his shot in half court sets, and used his dribble to set up others while turning down decent opportunities for himself. He didn’t offer many attempts other than right at the rim, logging just 18 attempts from three — although he did hit eight of them for a 44.4% 3P% mark.
Can't disagree with most of your points about Johnson.

When I analyze college and HS prospects entering the draft, I look at them through the lens of a coach. I don't look at prospects so much for what they are, but for what they can be if they are properly coached at the next level. Johnson has a God-given talent and athleticism that most prospects in this draft do not possess. Most of his flaws or short comings are fundamental which can be fixed or taught in the proper setting. I said the same thing about Obi last year. Before the draft, people didn't want to draft Obi because he looked terrible on the defensive end. I watched his game film and it was clear that he wasn't being taught the proper defensive fundamentals. His close-outs were pathetic and positioning of his feet when guarding one on one caused him to be slightly off balance. He still has a lot to learn, but defensively, Obi looked much better playing in the Knicks defensive system for a coach that teaches proper defensive techniques and pays attention to the defensive details than he did playing for Dayton

I coached HS ball for 4 years and am very familiar with the AAU scene. I can tell you, most of these kids aren't being coached-up at all. Most have trainers that help them work on specific individual skills but most of the these kids are not being taught how to play as a team nor are they being drilled on the fundamentals of the game.

From what I have seen, Johnsons struggles on defense are based on poor foot work and poor technique. That is a fundamental flaw that can be coached-up. He didn't shoot many 3's which informs me that he is not very confident but he still shot at a very good clip. Again, that can fixed with repetition which in turn breeds confidence. We saw first hand how Julius and RJ improved tremendously from 3 with hard work, training and experience.

Johnson at times can get loose with his passing, as he averaged 4.3 turnovers per 36 minutes in his career. A lot of these stem from his love of difficult skip passes or passes across the teeth of the defense. He’ll learn in time to make the easy feed back out when he’s trapped on one side of the floor.

Skip passes, turnovers, etc., can be fixed with proper coaching. Film work and a system will improve his decision making and limit turnovers. I'm impressed with his vision which most bigs his size do not posses. It's easier to fix his turnovers than it his to teach his vision. And keep in mind, this kid is 19 years old. He bounced around from one HS to the next and played maybe a half season of college ball. Like I said earlier, fans judge prospects for where there are, not for what they can be with experience and coaching. I just see a ton of potential in this kid and I thought taking him at 19, with 2 other picks was worth the gamble.

KnickDanger wrote:Which begs the question is he coachable?

maybe. Can’t judge on SL. but i would still come back to the point that we’re all in with thibs. he has about a 4-year shelf life with a team before he burns everyone out and needs to leave. so during those years get him the guys he can win with - and those are the grimes/mcbride types that can plug immediately into his system.