fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would like to see BS under Thibs and crew. He's 24 and an impact player and his skills set fits a huge need (PG) and we have a guy on the roster who's role we could expand (IQ) if we played a guy like BS next to him.

Im talking OBi and Dallas picks, maybe another with protections, I doubt they want Knox, no to Mitch or IQ and phuck off if they want RJ or anyone else. Just move on.

Bottom line is if there is a buy low opportunity for the Knicks and Ben Simmons I would pounce on that. Dude is 24

The bold is about as clear a picture of the future with Simmons as you could want. What don't you understand about a 24 year old who will not take the time to learn to shoot free throws, something they can teach middle schoolers to do? If you keep saying "impact" and "All Star" is that going to override "getting big shots" and "hitting big shots" in the playoffs?

Again, you talk about what you would trade, but do you REALLY want to pay this guy 30-40MM for the next 4 years? If it was buy low, pay low... it might be worth a gamble.

Like the man himself said, he is what he is.

he is what he is? How many people said that about Randle and his dubious handles last offseason? At 24 he is what he is? That is exactly what I hope Phili is saying and they pull the plug and send him to us for like nothing because we can eat that contract.

As for payroll it only matters this year. This is the only offseason we are going to have cap space to spend. Once Randle gets the max its over. This is the one shot to add talent using that avenue. If its Ben Simmons for Obi and the Dallas picks cool. Good job. We still have assets moving forward but have another piece that really moves the needle. If not look elsewhere

Look at the age of your starting line up and you hand Thibs 5 guys who are plus defenders: IQ/RJ/Ben/Jules/Mitch

Its just one scenario... that would be a talented gift. You could also afford to bring back Rose

Do not remember many defending Randle except me and a couple others. Do not think this is a good comparison though. Randle's biggest issue was trying to do too much because of Fiz trying to make him a Point Forward. People "That know basketball" understood this. Although Simmons is talented, his biggest weakness is that he is not naturally aggressive. As we have seen, hard to correct that. Alpha males are born not taught. Simmons will always be a high level role player and not a difference maker in a playoff game. Which is the only players worth max money. Pass.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would take Ben in heartbeart. You guys who say he's trash obviously dont understand him or watch basketball. He's got a couple of big flaws in his game that have been exposed repeatedly and Ben isnt the first "star" to be exposed in such a way. He's not a scorer. He gets 15 a game because he's big and fast and so good at creating for others. He's got a role in the offense and being an option isnt really part of it.

He's one of the best defensive players in the league and truly an impact player there. A top 4 league defender in any generation who can guard 1-5.

He would be an amazing point forward on the Knicks. You put him at 3, let him guard the toughest guys and he runs the offense which allows a team like the Knicks to play a non-PG shooting type like IQ at PG for 30+ minutes a game because Ben is running the offense.

Something like Obi/Knox and 3 FRPs (really a low ball as our picks suck) would suck for Phili (they would want 5 FRPs and IQ) which isnt worth it as Knicks wouldnt have any cap space/picks/assets to build anything better than a good defensive squad that cant score and gets bounced in the 2nd round every year (hey! Like Phili!)

But think about a starting line up of: IQ/RJ/Simmons/Julius/Mitch
Thats the best defensive team in the league and if IQ/RJ/Julius sustain their shooting you have good spacing.

Anyway its fart in the wind but Ben Simmons is absolutely an impact player. He's not a finisher but what he does gets you to there every time. There are not a lot of players good enough to do that. The only thing that would put the Knicks in the talks is their cap allows them more options than most other teams.

This sounds like a Frank Ntlikina type of argument. "He is so good on defense". He is SO smart". "He has so much potential". So what?? He has proven time and time again that he does not want to shoot. No way I am paying $40 Million for a guy that is afraid to shoot. In SEVEN GAMES he shot the ball 3 times in the fourth quarter!? F that. I'll take a good facilitator for 1/10th of his price and a guy that can hit an open shot. Said it over and over again, you got to have gamers to win. Enough with these guys that are afraid of the moment. What good are their so-called hidden values if they don't have the balls to show up??

Also we are talking about buying low. Your post makes no sense in this context. I would prefer Booker or SGA myself, but he's neither on the menu or in the budget. You thought Dennis Smith JR was that kind of player. Maybe between the ears but on the court he's trash. We have 4 years of data that says Ben Simmons is not only a winning NBA player he's a very winning player in pretty much every stat or analytic you can come up with. If he didnt have dirt on his face right now he wouldnt be in the discussion.

Knicks are in a unique cap space situation. That and Simmon's terrible finish to the postseason put him in the discussion. Morey will gauge his value. I dont think he's the right guy to spend a ton of assets on, but if that is just cap space and a reasonable package then you look hard at that

DLow
Edwards
Ben
Mcdaniels(eventually)
Towns

Playoffs is another story, but they'd finally be be a playoff team.

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knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:I would take Ben in heartbeart. You guys who say he's trash obviously dont understand him or watch basketball. He's got a couple of big flaws in his game that have been exposed repeatedly and Ben isnt the first "star" to be exposed in such a way. He's not a scorer. He gets 15 a game because he's big and fast and so good at creating for others. He's got a role in the offense and being an option isnt really part of it.

He's one of the best defensive players in the league and truly an impact player there. A top 4 league defender in any generation who can guard 1-5.

He would be an amazing point forward on the Knicks. You put him at 3, let him guard the toughest guys and he runs the offense which allows a team like the Knicks to play a non-PG shooting type like IQ at PG for 30+ minutes a game because Ben is running the offense.

Something like Obi/Knox and 3 FRPs (really a low ball as our picks suck) would suck for Phili (they would want 5 FRPs and IQ) which isnt worth it as Knicks wouldnt have any cap space/picks/assets to build anything better than a good defensive squad that cant score and gets bounced in the 2nd round every year (hey! Like Phili!)

But think about a starting line up of: IQ/RJ/Simmons/Julius/Mitch
Thats the best defensive team in the league and if IQ/RJ/Julius sustain their shooting you have good spacing.

Anyway its fart in the wind but Ben Simmons is absolutely an impact player. He's not a finisher but what he does gets you to there every time. There are not a lot of players good enough to do that. The only thing that would put the Knicks in the talks is their cap allows them more options than most other teams.

This sounds like a Frank Ntlikina type of argument. "He is so good on defense". He is SO smart". "He has so much potential". So what?? He has proven time and time again that he does not want to shoot. No way I am paying $40 Million for a guy that is afraid to shoot. In SEVEN GAMES he shot the ball 3 times in the fourth quarter!? F that. I'll take a good facilitator for 1/10th of his price and a guy that can hit an open shot. Said it over and over again, you got to have gamers to win. Enough with these guys that are afraid of the moment. What good are their so-called hidden values if they don't have the balls to show up??

you had me check out when you compared a 3x all star who's played well since day 1 to Frank. Simmons has done nothing but win since being in the NBA.

Also we are talking about buying low. Your post makes no sense in this context. I would prefer Booker or SGA myself, but he's neither on the menu or in the budget. You thought Dennis Smith JR was that kind of player. Maybe between the ears but on the court he's trash. We have 4 years of data that says Ben Simmons is not only a winning NBA player he's a very winning player in pretty much every stat or analytic you can come up with. If he didnt have dirt on his face right now he wouldnt be in the discussion.

Knicks are in a unique cap space situation. That and Simmon's terrible finish to the postseason put him in the discussion. Morey will gauge his value. I dont think he's the right guy to spend a ton of assets on, but if that is just cap space and a reasonable package then you look hard at that

why do you always go with talent over fit..

There's no way that Randle/Mitch/Simmons fit together

IQ is a bench player, and we have no other shooters on the roster

This is the same guy that said RJ Barrett is a better player than Morant.

BRIGGS wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:simmons is getting roasted today

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Yo man take the violence to the kid video out—- that’s not funny

There is no violence. They are playing. It's like those pro wrestling shows.

Clean wrote:There is no violence. They are playing. It's like those pro wrestling shows.

I don't play with my kids like that. I'm with Briggs. Its not like a wrestling show cause that's not an adult wrestler. Didn't look like anyone was having fun either. Its disgusting.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Clean wrote:There is no violence. They are playing. It's like those pro wrestling shows.

I don't play with my kids like that. I'm with Briggs. Its not like a wrestling show cause that's not an adult wrestler. Didn't look like anyone was having fun either. Its disgusting.

Eh, used to practice worse moves with my younger brother. My little cousin used to beg me to practice the Rock Bottom and People'Elbow on him. Don't know the full context of that clip, but I think they were joking around.

There is a longer video to that I seen a long time ago. I think the context is a group of friends who do wrestling moves in public areas on video. Some kids wanted to join in so here you have this video. With how woke the world is these days no way would this video exist without drama if it was real.

Clean wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Clean wrote:There is no violence. They are playing. It's like those pro wrestling shows.

I don't play with my kids like that. I'm with Briggs. Its not like a wrestling show cause that's not an adult wrestler. Didn't look like anyone was having fun either. Its disgusting.

Because you don't do something no one else is able to? I personally don't care for pro wrestling but I am not going to act like a lot of young boys don't do those wrestling moves while horsing around. I don't want to derail this thread but wanted to let the people who are worried about it know its not real.

Overpaid and how don't know how you build a winning team if he is taking up that large of a % of your team's cap.

djsunyc wrote:some really weird takes in this thread.

i think the hawks are awesome. and proving yet again that outside of having a top 5 nba player, you pick the offensive guy over the defensive guy 10 times out of 10.

sixers had 20+ point leads in 3 of their losses so it was more about not having a legit wing player/pg to help lead and close it out. outside of the jimmy butler year, they never had it.

in relation to this thread, knicks only really had a shot in 1 game. it was basically a sweep as the hawks had double digit leads in all the games. my guess is that if this battle tested hawks play the knicks now, they sweep with ease. there's no telling if randolph will be as good next year. i mean he was really really bad these playoffs and that has a bigger chance to carry over than his MIP stuff.

getting simmons and then having to pay randolph basically locks you into those 2 long term - doesn't really make sense unless you have a durant level guy on the wing. not really sure what fishmark is thinking. you need shooters/scorers that can play defense...not defensive guys that can't do sh t on offense.

lonzo ball ain't that guy either but it would be a knicks move to max him.

and there's shelf life to all of this. thibs isn't going to last long with his style of coaching and input to team building.

What do you know about what moves Leon Rose and Knick are going to max. Go back to your hole Raptors fan and worry about Masai's next move with the other two Raptors fans living in the States. We don't need insight from a fan of some poverty franchise.