Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

If you asked me last year if we should trade RJ, I would've said he's off the table in 99.9 % of the deals offered. I don't feel that way anymore. Realistically, I couldn't see RJ starting on a championship contender right now. Can he still be good? Sure, but I think top 50 player in the league is his ultimate ceiling. That's cool and I don't consider it being a bust, but it's not enough to stop me if someone like Zach Lavine becomes available.

Don't know how true the various rumors are but I see lots of posts/rumors suggesting obtaining Zach Lavine wouldn't take as much as the others. Ideally we could pair him with RJ as Zach is a decent outside shooter and can handle the ball a lot. I wouldn't give up RJ for Zach ideally as I'd rather wait to see if Booker wants out of Phx.

jskinny35 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

If you asked me last year if we should trade RJ, I would've said he's off the table in 99.9 % of the deals offered. I don't feel that way anymore. Realistically, I couldn't see RJ starting on a championship contender right now. Can he still be good? Sure, but I think top 50 player in the league is his ultimate ceiling. That's cool and I don't consider it being a bust, but it's not enough to stop me if someone like Zach Lavine becomes available.

Don't know how true the various rumors are but I see lots of posts/rumors suggesting obtaining Zach Lavine wouldn't take as much as the others. Ideally we could pair him with RJ as Zach is a decent outside shooter and can handle the ball a lot. I wouldn't give up RJ for Zach ideally as I'd rather wait to see if Booker wants out of Phx.

I can see that. My point is I don't consider RJ as untouchable. I'm not actively shopping him, but I'm not immediately hanging up the phone if another team inquires about his availability.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

If you asked me last year if we should trade RJ, I would've said he's off the table in 99.9 % of the deals offered. I don't feel that way anymore. Realistically, I couldn't see RJ starting on a championship contender right now. Can he still be good? Sure, but I think top 50 player in the league is his ultimate ceiling. That's cool and I don't consider it being a bust, but it's not enough to stop me if someone like Zach Lavine becomes available.

Barrett has far and away the best on-off points percentage per 100 possessions on the team. There's metrics that say he's the team's most valuable player. People these days get way too hung up in true shooting % and such. It's about impact, which Barrett, at age 20, is highly impactful on a team that is currently not too bad.

I'm gonna trust my eyes on this one. Randle is clearly the most valuable player on this team.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DaRealBootum/status/1348446503032016903

I recognize it's still early but....

Can't blow by his defender
Nothing special defensively
So far can't shoot
Average passer? I can't tell

Martin I almost universally agree with and like your posts but not this one.

He rebounds very well. Drives to the rim which is great for the team for many reasons. As he starts to draw fouls that will be more important than 3s. He plays good D and has versatility there. And he’s a willing multiple effort defender which is important on team d. And he’s poised and smart

Why does he need to blow by a defender? There are many ways to be effective on offense without doing that which is a specialty of smaller speedier guys who have their own flaws like lack of size and versatility on D and who can’t rebound worth ****

It’s not that he’s above criticism. He needs to improve his shooting. But I think you’re being too critical. His ft% is improving and that will be critical to his and team improvement. Personally even though it’s against analytics and modern nba I’d like to see more midrange from him ala Reggie Lewis of Celts of yesteryear. He’s taking way too many 3s at the moment

I hope I was able to convey my barometer and line of judgement with Barrett in the OP, it's a high one and that is my perspective. On a championship level team (give or take) you need at least 2 guys who are high level and then maybe a 3rd type dude. Right now I don't see Barrett as either a 1a or 1b type player, he could certainly fill that 3rd type player. I hope I am wrong but I'm seeing too many flaws in his game to project him to a high level guy.

You don't need elite athleticism to be successful but you need to make it up in other areas while having the smarts that high level players just need to be successful (amongst a lot of other things), I just dont see enough from RJ. He is going to get better, he will work hard and persist in things, but the natural talent is just not there IMHO.

If you asked me last year if we should trade RJ, I would've said he's off the table in 99.9 % of the deals offered. I don't feel that way anymore. Realistically, I couldn't see RJ starting on a championship contender right now. Can he still be good? Sure, but I think top 50 player in the league is his ultimate ceiling. That's cool and I don't consider it being a bust, but it's not enough to stop me if someone like Zach Lavine becomes available.

Don't know how true the various rumors are but I see lots of posts/rumors suggesting obtaining Zach Lavine wouldn't take as much as the others. Ideally we could pair him with RJ as Zach is a decent outside shooter and can handle the ball a lot. I wouldn't give up RJ for Zach ideally as I'd rather wait to see if Booker wants out of Phx.

I can see that. My point is I don't consider RJ as untouchable. I'm not actively shopping him, but I'm not immediately hanging up the phone if another team inquires about his availability.

I hear you and agree - nobody's really untouchable. I'd trade RJ and stuff for Booker anytime. I defend RJ somewhat because every other rookie/young player we've had in the last 10 years has either wilted under all the mismanagement, has been overhyped and/or not shown a quality work ethic. I truly see RJ as a Jimmy Butler type in that he can be paired as a 1B and fit perfectly. I think Randle could also be a 1B in the right situation, but he would have to be on a team with knockdown shooters like Miami or Milwaukee. I don't think the spacing allows for Randle and RJ to bring out the best in both - so I'm choosing the 20 year old that seems to play better defense vs the 26 who is currently overachieving in my opinion. Better than last year for sure!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/RJBarrettStats/status/1351253565587795969

To me RJ looks like a guy that can be a 1a on a playoff team but he isn't going to take you to a championship by himself, just like 99.99999% of the players in this league. Dude reminds me of a player in the Danny Granger/Paul Pierce/Paul George/Scottie Pippen mold. Pierce was a hall of famer and in his prime Granger was one of the top wings in the league. George was a top wing and Pippen was Pippin. All of these guys ranged from really good to great on playoff teams by themselves ,but the needed help to get to that next level. There is nothing wrong with that.

Guys like him are guys you hold onto because even the guys you would trade him for wouldn't get you to that next level by themselves.

So far I'm watching him initiate the offense more, play lockdown defense, improved shooting.
I can see him reach a 20-5-5 level. His rebounding is already there. His scoring is getting there and his passing is improved or at the very least more evident. You can count on one hand the number of players in this league whose presence gets you to a conference finals/nba finals appearance. LeBron is one. Durant is maybe another. Who else? RJ isn't the best player in the league. He probably isn't going to be but from the looks of his intangibles and the improvement curve I see, he can well be really damn good.

What makes a guys like Booker and Lavine so much better? They score 26, 27 points a game? Let's be honest, if we ever got them, in a week both guys would be one dimensional scoring machines that we would try and post trades for someone else.

technomaster wrote:RJ set a career high with 28 points tonight.

Over his past 5 (dating back to the loss to the Nets)
21.8 ppg
6.4 rpg
3.6 apg
51.4% FG
38.9% 3pt (3.6 3pt attempts/gm)
86.7% FT (6 FTA/gm)

His overall efficiency has been quite good - getting to the line a lot and shooting quite well all around. What's encouraging is that he's not forcing shots - these numbers are generally in the flow of the offense.

It really shows that he has worked on his game this off-season. Who would have thunk that he might turn out to be a 50/40/90 player.