[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Should we give Julius Randle more credit?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 6 of 6 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239
12/31/2020  9:27 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:So we give Randle more credit then trade him -- got it.

BTW -- I dislike Labronna just because, but I would never not give him the credit. He is the one guy who make the Super Friends concept work. Notwithstanding KD joining an in place champion, no one else has brought it to the Promised Land, much less multiple times.

His superfriends concept was reactionary to the Celtics’ Pierce/Garnett/Allen. Thing is, the Celts front office deserved credit for those moves. Lebron’s teams manipulated salaries to play together. Completely within their rights to do that under this salary cap, but still has a collusive feel to it that rubs me wrong.

Also throw in the fact that the first year they got together, Lebron/Wade/Bosh lost to a team with only one prime star (Dallas and Dirk). So their stacked squad couldn't get it done in year one.

Just the concept of the league's best player (in his prime) running around chasing behind other stars to team with to collect rings makes it uncomfortable to call him the GOAT.
AUTOADVERT
cooch2584
Posts: 21586
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187
12/31/2020  10:06 AM
IMHO, we cant compare eras of basketball for greatness. Back in the day those guys on the floor beat the snot outta each other. The league has been pussified so if you even look at another player wrong you get a foul call. I liked it way back because you could see guys making baskets with the defender draped all over them and no foul called, You knew those guys back in the day were tough players.Some of them couldnt play in this league now.
KnickDanger
Posts: 24375
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2017
Member: #7578
12/31/2020  11:17 AM
cooch2584 wrote:IMHO, we cant compare eras of basketball for greatness. Back in the day those guys on the floor beat the snot outta each other. The league has been pussified so if you even look at another player wrong you get a foul call. I liked it way back because you could see guys making baskets with the defender draped all over them and no foul called, You knew those guys back in the day were tough players.Some of them couldnt play in this league now.

The world has been pussified! For better or worse....
Uptown
Posts: 31303
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883
12/31/2020  11:54 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:So we give Randle more credit then trade him -- got it.

BTW -- I dislike Labronna just because, but I would never not give him the credit. He is the one guy who make the Super Friends concept work. Notwithstanding KD joining an in place champion, no one else has brought it to the Promised Land, much less multiple times.

His superfriends concept was reactionary to the Celtics’ Pierce/Garnett/Allen. Thing is, the Celts front office deserved credit for those moves. Lebron’s teams manipulated salaries to play together. Completely within their rights to do that under this salary cap, but still has a collusive feel to it that rubs me wrong.

So, 2 former celtics, McHale and Ainge. and at the time current GMs, collude to get the Celtics another ring they deserve credit?. Why is it acceptable for Gms trade players whenever and to whomever they want but its frowned upon when a player takes ownership of their own career? During his 1st stint in Cleveland, the front office was trading for Antwan Jamison and and over the hill Shq Oneal! If Lebron stayed in Cleveland his whole career relying on an inept front office, he probably never wins a chip because you can't win won without another legit star player. And as talented as he is. the narrative would read that he is a loser never won a chip would be in the same class a Barkley and Malone eventhough he is 3xs more talented than those players.

Unfortunately for Lebron, he was drafted by Cleveland. Unlike Magic, who was drafted by the Lakers who already had the best player in the world. Bird was drafted by the Celtics, the best franchise in the NBA at the time by the best GM at the time that built that team back up with great moves.
Nalod
Posts: 71119
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/31/2020  12:43 PM
Length of career matters.
One more time, Jordan was the Goat.
But Jabbar, Russell and Lebron had better careers.
Jordan Did not succeed until the team around him was better. NObody wins on the back of one.
I thought Jordan deserved more MVP’s as I do Lebron. The great ones get taken for granted somtimes.
Lebrons rebounding and assists matter. Length of healthy years matters. Jordan got to take a near two year break to recharge. It Helped.
Tony Kucoc is highly underrated. And statistically was very good. IF you don’t like Lebron it’s your choice. The intangibles are fun to discuss. I hated Jordan back in the day. He got calls that were not valid and they won games for them. But I had to respect what I was seeing on the floor. Lebron has a different career. We never heard Oscar wanted out but that does not mean it did not happen. That Lebron could create. His own narrative by his moves changed sports.
JOrdan was bound by Bulls who paid him 30mm his last two seasons which was crazy money then. No team could have paid him more than 16mm at the time due to the cap then.

There is no way to absolutely define best career. Russell won 11 in 13 seasons and won two chips in college. Jordan won at UNC and was not the best player on the team. Lebron did not go to college. Not saying any this is fair or not. Its subjective.
Its why we have a Mount Rushmore.
KnickDanger
Posts: 24375
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2017
Member: #7578
12/31/2020  12:59 PM
It's hard to appreciate the players you never saw -- the automatic discussion is MJ vs Lebron but I can recall the dominance of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. To a lesser degree Bill Russell but as a kid it was Wilt who cast the huge shadow (though the rings aren't there the same way). And of course the eras and times are different -- think to when players had off season jobs. And smoked. Tobacco. Linebackers weighed 200 lbs. And so on.
cooch2584
Posts: 21586
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187
12/31/2020  1:21 PM
KnickDanger wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:IMHO, we cant compare eras of basketball for greatness. Back in the day those guys on the floor beat the snot outta each other. The league has been pussified so if you even look at another player wrong you get a foul call. I liked it way back because you could see guys making baskets with the defender draped all over them and no foul called, You knew those guys back in the day were tough players.Some of them couldnt play in this league now.

The world has been pussified! For better or worse....

Its for the worst
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239
12/31/2020  1:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/31/2020  1:35 PM
Nalod wrote:But Jabbar, Russell and Lebron had better careers.

Nalod wrote:There is no way to absolutely define best career. Russell won 11 in 13 seasons and won two chips in college. Jordan won at UNC and was not the best player on the team. Lebron did not go to college. Not saying any this is fair or not. Its subjective.

Huh? Seems like contradictory statements. It sounds like you're just arbitrarily determining Kareem, Lebron and Russell had better career with no justification or criteria? Also, I don't factor in college, high school, olympics, aau etc. I look strictly at their NBA accomplishments.

And of course Jordan played with good teammates (Kukoc, Grant, Armstrong, etc.). But none of those guys compare with any of Lebron's #3 HOF guys Bosh or Love/Irving (whichever one you considered the #3 guy in Cleveland). If you want to talk about underrated guys, look at what Chris Bosh did prior to hooking up with Lebron: 24 ppg, 10.8 reb, 2 assist, 1 block, 52% fg, 80% ft, former 2nd team all-nba, 5x all-star.
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239
12/31/2020  1:46 PM
KnickDanger wrote:It's hard to appreciate the players you never saw -- the automatic discussion is MJ vs Lebron but I can recall the dominance of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. To a lesser degree Bill Russell but as a kid it was Wilt who cast the huge shadow (though the rings aren't there the same way). And of course the eras and times are different -- think to when players had off season jobs. And smoked. Tobacco. Linebackers weighed 200 lbs. And so on.
I think as time passes people begin to appreciate Kareem more. One thing you have to remember though, rings aren't all weighted the same. Kareem has six rings, but no more than three of those rings was he arguably the best player on the team. Same with Kobe. Of his five rings, he was the best player on only two of those teams.

I just missed Russell and only remember Wilt at the tail end of his career. One thing I will put out there, there are a number of full Celtic games on youtube when Russell played. I have a hard time watching Russell play and convincing myself that I'm watching the GOAT.
cooch2584
Posts: 21586
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187
12/31/2020  3:46 PM
i was lucky to see players from 65 on
KnickDanger
Posts: 24375
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2017
Member: #7578
12/31/2020  4:02 PM
Welpee wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:It's hard to appreciate the players you never saw -- the automatic discussion is MJ vs Lebron but I can recall the dominance of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. To a lesser degree Bill Russell but as a kid it was Wilt who cast the huge shadow (though the rings aren't there the same way). And of course the eras and times are different -- think to when players had off season jobs. And smoked. Tobacco. Linebackers weighed 200 lbs. And so on.
I think as time passes people begin to appreciate Kareem more. One thing you have to remember though, rings aren't all weighted the same. Kareem has six rings, but no more than three of those rings was he arguably the best player on the team. Same with Kobe. Of his five rings, he was the best player on only two of those teams.

I just missed Russell and only remember Wilt at the tail end of his career. One thing I will put out there, there are a number of full Celtic games on youtube when Russell played. I have a hard time watching Russell play and convincing myself that I'm watching the GOAT.

Bill Russell was one of the greatest team players. Wilt the Stilt dominated.
TPercy
Posts: 28010
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748
1/1/2021  2:35 AM
Passed first test. Was curious to see how he’d perform when his teammates start selling and he actually stuck to the plan. Kept trying to make plays for others even when shots weren’t falling. Really hope he keeps it up...
The Future is Bright!
martin
Posts: 76128
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
1/2/2021  12:26 PM
Playing with diddly for PGs

Randle’s averages through the first five games of the 2020-21 season:

23 points
10.4 rebounds
7 assists
53.3 field goal percentage
52.9 3-point percentage (1.8 – 3.4)
76.5 free throw percentage
37.8 minutes

Randle’s averages through the first five games of the 2019-20 season:

15.6 points
11.2 rebounds
5 assists
43.7 field goal percentage
8.3 3-point percentage (0.2 – 2.4)
60 free throw percentage
34.6 minutes

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Nalod
Posts: 71119
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/2/2021  1:57 PM
Wilts stats was so far off the mean average it was crazy. Nobody ever did that. If Stats told the whole story he is the Goat. 2 rings and the contrast of team oriented Bill Russell.
If points matter, Jabbar is the Goat. He was unstoppable. 6 rings but Lakers legacy Tainted GOAT as he was surrounded by talent.
If winning matters Russell did it also in college, and then at a crazy high rate in the pro’s. It matters because winning matters.
If winning matters Russell had a better Career.
If Points matter Jabbar had a better career.
If it all matters Lebron career is projecting to be better.
Who is the Goat? I’d still say Jordan. Ultimate compliment.
blkexec
Posts: 28301
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
1/2/2021  9:30 PM
Randle played great, on a bad shooting night. I like to see he did not let his bad shooting or lack of scoring affect other parts of the game. Nice win and nice leadership....on defense
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
TPercy
Posts: 28010
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748
1/2/2021  9:37 PM
blkexec wrote:Randle played great, on a bad shooting night. I like to see he did not let his bad shooting or lack of scoring affect other parts of the game. Nice win and nice leadership....on defense

This. It seems like he is a really changed guy and it seems like based on his post game interviews that having an actual coach in Thibs has done wonders for him. I still want to give it more games before I completely buy into this much improved version of Randle but he's doing great right now.

The Future is Bright!
ESOMKnicks
Posts: 21420
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/14/2015
Member: #6064
1/3/2021  4:22 AM
Welpee wrote:
Nalod wrote:But Jabbar, Russell and Lebron had better careers.


And of course Jordan played with good teammates (Kukoc, Grant, Armstrong, etc.). But none of those guys compare with any of Lebron's #3 HOF guys Bosh or Love/Irving (whichever one you considered the #3 guy in Cleveland).

Scottie Pippen was the 2nd best player in the league. Jordan + Pippen was like LeBron + Kawhi today.
Nalod
Posts: 71119
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/3/2021  7:23 AM
PIppen’s defense enabled Jordan freedoms few star players are afforded. He could guard Stockton, Payton, Isiah or Magic at times in finals. Pippen defens also took pressure off BJ or Paxton, or Kerr too.
Jordans greatness also made others better. Lebron we know was more of a distributor who also enhanced teammates.
That LEborn played in more finals is a testament, not a weakness.
Jordan Vs. Lebron are not direct parallel.
Babe Ruth was the greatest. But some others might have had better careers. Babe Ruth was a great pitcher in his first years as a player too!
KnickDanger
Posts: 24375
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2017
Member: #7578
1/3/2021  11:38 AM
I like that we're discussing the GOAT on the Randle thread. Hoping it motivates Julius :)
Page 6 of 6 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6 
« Reply To Topic
Should we give Julius Randle more credit?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy