Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:And I’m done talking on this
No one devalues black lives
We have very serious gun control issues in the us— we do

We are way over due on modern police reform

We fix these two issues— were a much better society.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If everyone else sees there is an issue and you don't see it, maybe you're the one who's not seeing the bigger picture?

The first thing I said when I saw Jacob shot was this is murder. That police officer committed a murderous act.

I’m against guns— have been all of my life. I hate them. They are a big root cause of many issues including what people say is racism. If we removed so many of the guns in the world -/ If we modernized policing policies— our society as a whole would benefit. I don’t want to marginalize anything— that was never my point. If I believe society as whole than I cannot believe in the term racism. I don’t value anyone less or more.

What people say is racism?! WTF does that mean?! Are you saying there is no such thing as racism?! Are you saying if we remove all guns, we remove all racism?! Do you really believe that? If so, respectfully, you are as ignorant as Archie Bunker.

I say it again, removing all guns will not fix racial inequality, its not going to spark criminal justice reform, its not going to end systemic racism, its not going to end police brutality, its not going to fix the unequal and broken educational system, its not going to remove hatred from the heart of an ignorant racist.

I see black white yellow as same— human race. If u don’t — that’s your call.

Uptown wrote:Your post, especially the bolded is insensitive, lacks empathy, and is offensive! Not one time in your post do address the sickness of systemic racism running rampart through this country or the issue of police officers killing unarmed black men, women and children. The bolded shows a complete disregard to Black Lives. So, we are to sit back and allow black bodies to pile up and the widows and children are supposed to sift through their dead loved ones in search of a teacher or a doctor to hinge our protest or agenda too?! How insensitive does this sound?! Any black man, woman or child is disposable and we shoudn't bat an eye if they are killed by a police officer, who swore to protect and serve, if they have been arrested or suspended from school at point in their lives?!

Breonna Taylor, a black women, who was a medical technician, was killed while she slept by police officers who have yet to be charged! Is she good enough?!

https://www.npr.org/2009/03/15/101719889/before-rosa-parks-there-was-claudette-colvin

Author Phil Hoose says that despite a few articles about her in the Birmingham press and in USA Today, and brief mentions in some books about the civil rights movement, most people don't know about the role Colvin played in the bus boycotts.

Hoose couldn't get over that there was this teenager, nine months before Rosa Parks, "in the same city, in the same bus system, with very tough consequences, hauled off the bus, handcuffed, jailed and nobody really knew about it."

He also believes Colvin is important because she challenged the law in court, one of four women plaintiffs in Browder v. Gayle, the court case that successfully overturned bus segregation laws in Montgomery and Alabama.

There are many reasons why Claudette Colvin has been pretty much forgotten. She hardly ever told her story when she moved to New York City. In her new community, hardly anyone was talking about integration; instead, most people were talking about black enterprises, black power and Malcolm X.

When asked why she is little known and why everyone thinks only of Rosa Parks, Colvin says the NAACP and all the other black organizations felt Parks would be a good icon because "she was an adult. They didn't think teenagers would be reliable."

She also says Parks had the right hair and the right look.

"Her skin texture was the kind that people associate with the middle class," says Colvin. "She fit that profile."

David Garrow, a historian and the author of Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, says people may think that Parks' action was spontaneous, but black civic leaders had been thinking about what to do about the Montgomery buses for years.

After Colvin's arrest, she found herself shunned by parts of her community. She experienced various difficulties and became pregnant. Civil rights leaders felt she was an inappropriate symbol for a test case.

Parks was the secretary of the NAACP. She was well-known and respected and, says Garrow, Parks had a "natural gravitas" and was an "inherently impressive person."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29752941/nba-players-decide-resume-playoffs

NBA players have decided to resume the playoffs, a source tells ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

Thursday's three playoff games will be postponed. A resumption of the postseason could come as soon as Friday, but there is expected to be a return to play by the weekend according to sources.

Players held a meeting at 11 a.m. ET. There will be another meeting Thursday with two players from each team talking to NBA owners, sources tell ESPN.

****

If you are saying the NBA players should have conducted their strike after a thorough investigation on their part of the Breonna Taylor tragedy and focused their stand relating to her death, then I agree. More importantly, a PR firm, specializing in "crisis management" would agree.

Civil rights leaders in the past had to weigh out the moves they made carefully. Rosa Parks was chosen. It was strategic. There was planning. They knew they were only going to get a few shots at making a major impact.

The NBA players making their stand on Jacob Blake was a horrible PR/Crisis management decision. If you want to effect change, you need to reach not just NBA fans, but people outside the NBA. By supporting someone with a history of domestic violence, and before a toxicology report came out, the narrative spins to NBA player supporting a wife beater. This causes an unneeded divide with support they could have gotten from women in general. Compound this with the very public issue of professional athletes and domestic violence ( the list is pretty much endless) and the perceived treatment of women in and around the sports, this path was doomed to failure. Women make most of the decisions for consumer purchases in American family households. There is a reason why the NFL wears pink for a month during the season to support research into breast cancer. This was a powerful segment of the American public that the NBA players lost or risked losing a majority of over choosing to hyper focus on the Blake situation.

Now the players have agreed to resume playing. Charles Barkley came out several times and pointed out the Orlando Magic were on the court and had no idea what the Bucks had decided to do. It's come out that there was division among the players on what to do next. And criticism that the Bucks made a move that represented all the players without a discussion with all the players on what should or should not be done or have happen. The players do not have and have never shown a specific achievable goal in their protest. This could have been simple, they could have hired the best PR/Crisis management firm out there ( they have the money and pull) and let them create an effective plan to help players achieve their social justice goals. The first would be to have an openly stated goal with actual benchmarks that were practical. "We want change!" says nothing. It's shouting at the wind. Saying we want police forces in America to have 30,000K more black cops in two years time, that's a goal with a benchmark. The second would be to wait, come together as all players, and hear out all players and make a plan together. They didn't and thus they were already at a disadvantage. The third would be to find a test case, much like Rosa Parks over Colvin, that fit the optics in the best way possible to get the message across to key demographics OUTSIDE the NBA. The players chose a ****ing wife beater. If the toxicology report comes back and he was hopped up on drugs, now it's a coked out wifebeater.

So to answer your question, that's exactly what civil rights leaders had to do in the past, no matter how unpleasant, they had to sift through the tragedies and find a narrative that would cause a spark in the general public to try to create change. Much like they chose Park over Colvin. It's my fault that the NBA players were dumb enough to pick a ****ing wife beater over Breonna Taylor?

NBA players had one shot at this. And they FUCKED IT ALL UP. There was no plan. There was no discussion as a collective ( doing if after the Bucks jumped ship doesn't count). There was no end goal that was specific and had benchmarks. There was no strategy to find a narrative friendly test case in the media to reach the audiences that they needed to reach. Was there discussion with other major sports to try to get solidarity on that front?

You can blame the cops, society, the culture, the government, the economy, etc, etc for their mistakes all you want. No one is blameless.

But NBA players and the NBPA approached this like a bunch of dip****s. It doesn't mean their opinions and views and politics are worth less than anyone elses, it's that you can't go out without a plan in place and expect any kind of positive results. Leaving the court and coming back just days later doesn't help them reach their goals. To carry weight, once they walked, they needed to walk on the entire season as a collective. Now all they've shown is no one can take their demands seriously. "I mean it this time! This time I'm gonna go run away. And never come back!" Seven year old kids do that. And guess what? Cry wolf even just once in a situation like this and no one takes you seriously.

Professional sports, esp the NBA, is one of the main pathways for African American men in this country to create GENERATIONAL WEALTH.

So the best answer is to go on strike and risk the economic collapse of an already battered league during a worldwide pandemic so that their children and grandchildren and so on won't have that same opportunity?

Play Stupid Games. Have No Plan. Have No Defined Goals. Ignore The Optics. Show No Solidarity. Cry Wolf. Back A Wife Beater. Win Stupid Prizes.

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:And I’m done talking on this
No one devalues black lives
We have very serious gun control issues in the us— we do

We are way over due on modern police reform

We fix these two issues— were a much better society.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If everyone else sees there is an issue and you don't see it, maybe you're the one who's not seeing the bigger picture?

The first thing I said when I saw Jacob shot was this is murder. That police officer committed a murderous act.

I’m against guns— have been all of my life. I hate them. They are a big root cause of many issues including what people say is racism. If we removed so many of the guns in the world -/ If we modernized policing policies— our society as a whole would benefit. I don’t want to marginalize anything— that was never my point. If I believe society as whole than I cannot believe in the term racism. I don’t value anyone less or more.

What people say is racism?! WTF does that mean?! Are you saying there is no such thing as racism?! Are you saying if we remove all guns, we remove all racism?! Do you really believe that? If so, respectfully, you are as ignorant as Archie Bunker.

I say it again, removing all guns will not fix racial inequality, its not going to spark criminal justice reform, its not going to end systemic racism, its not going to end police brutality, its not going to fix the unequal and broken educational system, its not going to remove hatred from the heart of an ignorant racist.

I see black white yellow as same— human race. If u don’t — that’s your call.

Briggs- when you say you don't see color, you are admitting that you do not see systemic racism. Saying you dont see skin color allows you to remain in your ignorance. It allows you to be blind to the issues that disproportionately affect people of color. Its not invisible people who are disproportionately incarcerated. It's people of color. It's not invisible people who are more likely to die from an encounter from law enforcement; its people of color. Since you dont see color, I guess you didn't notice that the during the first half of the century, it was LEGAL to deny blacks and other minorities access to housing, jobs and voting!

To say you don't see color is denying racism. It shows me that you live in a different reality. Living in America, black people will always see color because We Are Constantly Reminded Of Ours....

Uptown I consider you my friend. Whatever way it needs to be done— we have same goal— peace for everyone. I apologize if I marginalized anything. Let’s hope that the next generations Continues progress— I k ow they will

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:And I’m done talking on this
No one devalues black lives
We have very serious gun control issues in the us— we do

We are way over due on modern police reform

We fix these two issues— were a much better society.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If everyone else sees there is an issue and you don't see it, maybe you're the one who's not seeing the bigger picture?

The first thing I said when I saw Jacob shot was this is murder. That police officer committed a murderous act.

I’m against guns— have been all of my life. I hate them. They are a big root cause of many issues including what people say is racism. If we removed so many of the guns in the world -/ If we modernized policing policies— our society as a whole would benefit. I don’t want to marginalize anything— that was never my point. If I believe society as whole than I cannot believe in the term racism. I don’t value anyone less or more.

What people say is racism?! WTF does that mean?! Are you saying there is no such thing as racism?! Are you saying if we remove all guns, we remove all racism?! Do you really believe that? If so, respectfully, you are as ignorant as Archie Bunker.

I say it again, removing all guns will not fix racial inequality, its not going to spark criminal justice reform, its not going to end systemic racism, its not going to end police brutality, its not going to fix the unequal and broken educational system, its not going to remove hatred from the heart of an ignorant racist.

I see black white yellow as same— human race. If u don’t — that’s your call.

Briggs- when you say you don't see color, you are admitting that you do not see systemic racism. Saying you dont see skin color allows you to remain in your ignorance. It allows you to be blind to the issues that disproportionately affect people of color. Its not invisible people who are disproportionately incarcerated. It's people of color. It's not invisible people who are more likely to die from an encounter from law enforcement; its people of color. Since you dont see color, I guess you didn't notice that the during the first half of the century, it was LEGAL to deny blacks and other minorities access to housing, jobs and voting!

To say you don't see color is denying racism. It shows me that you live in a different reality. Living in America, black people will always see color because We Are Constantly Reminded Of Ours....

Uptown I consider you my friend. Whatever way it needs to be done— we have same goal— peace for everyone. I apologize if I marginalized anything. Let’s hope that the next generations Continues progress— I k ow they will

Briggs- I enjoy talking hoops with you, especially evaluating prospects as we both have a passion for college basketball. The reason why I am responding to your posts is to open your eyes to other ways of thinking or in the very least, seeing things from a different prospective. Peace, freedom, justice and equality is something we are all striving for....

I appreciate that. Thank you

ESOMKnicks wrote:In Russia civilian gun ownership is so restrictive, people are effectively banned from having guns (except smoothbore single- or double-loading guns for hunting).

Yet the murder rate in Russia is almost twice as high as in the US.

Anyone who thinks that banning guns in the US will solve the murder problem or the racism problem is beyond delusional.

one example does not make a case at all, it's poor logic and amounts to relative nothing in this circumstance

cooch2584 wrote:IMO ALL LIVES MATTER. CASE CLOSED.

Of course they do, But the lives that are being taken away by the police and their systematic Racism, tends to be black lives.

You have to understand the statement, that's what Roger Goodell and the rest of the world are now starting to wake up and realize.

To some, it seems like an all-inclusive response, but not everyone agrees.

The “Black Lives Matter” mantra is a sorrowful rallying cry, and at times, it’s answered with the retort “All Lives Matter.”

It’s an obvious sentiment, but in this moment, it’s seen as twisting the “Black Lives Matter” message just when the nation is focused on the deep wounds of racism.

It’s unleashed a flurry of explainers.

“I don’t think that the people that are posting ‘All Lives Matter’ should be canceled. I think they should be educated,” actor Ashton Kutcher said in a video posted to social media.

“Now I realize it is dismissive,” author Julie Borowski said in another video.

“For example, if you ran into someone that was trying to raise awareness for breast cancer, and then you said, ‘Whoa, wait, there are other types of cancers, too, you know? That is not cool,'” one social media user explained.

Sometimes it’s stated in quiet posts, but all times it’s hurtful, says Sydney Daniel, a Long Island nurse who has heard it shouted in anger this week.

“It’s how they’re saying it. It’s kind of like, ‘All lives matter, so just go home, what’s the issue?'” Daniel told CBS2’s Carolyn Gusoff. “Some people don’t even know how racist they actually are by that comment.”

It’s dismissive of a painful history that black lives have not appeared to matter to everyone, born out of the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the murder of Trayvon Martin.

Hofstra University professor of rhetoric Tomeka Robinson says the “All Lives Matter” response tries to remove race from what needs to be a race discussion.

“It is tone deaf, and they don’t get that what they’re saying is de-racializing a movement, but there are certainly some bad actors that absolutely are using it as a way to silence and a tool of further oppression to say, like, ‘We shouldn’t deal with this, this is not a real issue, this is not an American issue,'” Robinson said.

Yet others say “all lives” is an expression of support for police, saying the vast majority do their jobs honorably.

“‘All Lives Matter’ simply says that we as a people, we as human being, we as mankind need to live together and to be able to survive peacefully, and it’s not an insult,” said Eric Koppelman, founder of iRadio USA.

That’s not the way Francesca Miranda hears it. The “Justice for George” organizer thinks the counter-slogan misses the point.

“When you say ‘black lives matter,’ you don’t say only black lives matter,” she said.

Protesters say you wouldn’t need a “Black Lives Matter” movement if all lives truly mattered. Implied in the slogan is an unwritten word: black lives matter also.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:There are gonna be people who say to these athletes
Where were you two weeks ago when tgis little boy got **** directky in the face. A crime perhaps 1000x more ruthless than this 1?
https://toofab.com/2020/08/13/five-year-old-cannon-hinnant-shot-dead-cycling-in-neighbors-yard/

Why don’t the bucks talk about gun violence? Why don’t the bucks put a value for n a 5 year old riding his little bike? I think if these athletes took a stronger overall look into gun violence. ANY violence whether from a police officer or regular citizen.

I’ll give u a reality— While I’m personally appalled and shocked once again with a police officer using what I personally deem as excessive force— I mean tgis is a form of attempted murder in my book— it still is going y to o be looked at in different scopes k owing there was a knife abd knowing the man did not adhere to police direction. The victim himself could’ve deescalated. 7 bullets is cut and dry wrong but there are other things leading up to this that could’ve been avoided on both sides.
But the little kid who was riding his bike simply got a gun stuck in his face and had his head blown off while his 7-8 yo siblings watched.I did not hear LeBron tweet about that one. And lastly I think the use of the phrase”one of our own” is adherently racist. This is a police compliant issue and everyone despite creed or color need to get on the same page.

There isn't a history or trend of cases to go on that matches the circumstances of Cannon Hinnant to make this comparable. The person who did so was also captured, and will be charged to the full extent of the law. Protest work towards people or entities that rely on credibility for their image/income. There is no protest that is going to reach a person like the person that shot Cannon Hinnant in the head. Which is why that talking point brought up is more ignorance trying to get filtered into real conversation.

Taking a "stronger look into gun violence or any violence" goes hand in hand with attempting re-allocate funds towards social programs and education aka "Defund the police". Looking to build stronger more educated communities which in turn will reduce violent crime and gun violence. Because its targeting the root and not only criminalizing people after the fact which is a business in itself. The voting campaign that has been established as well has those same principals in mind. The overall effect will attack gun violence and violence in general.

In the 90s the media was big on capturing any black person that committed a crime. This has not lead to reduced crime rates and violence due to "awareness".

I’m not talking about race New York — I’m talking strictly gun violence— gun violence doesn’t just occur by police — in fact that is a very low %. The protest should be about gun violence in general. These are gun crimes whether it was Jacob the little boy— almost all these incidents are predicated on gun violence. Gun violence is an equal opportunity circumstance— it’s not white black or yellow— it’s it’s own evil mechanism.

Briggs, the problem is that this is changing the subject. We know that the brutality witnessed again and again doesn’t require a gun. Kneeling on necks isn’t gun violence. It’s not always resulting in death either. It’s based on a systemic racism and a series of micro-aggressions that create a different existence, a different set of outcomes for Black Americans.

Take every instance we see and try to imagine the same scenario happening on Wall Street. Or to a white cheerleader. Or a white man wearing khakis and a polo. This isn’t about gun violence. This instance of police brutality just happened to use a gun. Seven times. In the back of an unarmed black man.

We can talk about gun violence too. We can talk about kids killed needlessly. But until people who want to help and care to listen step back and realize it’s not about gun violence. It’s about systemic racism. That means you are just changing the subject to a different systemic issue.

And people pointing out a murder involving a white victim are just confused. Most white people ?myself included) are confused. Lost in some emotional defense mechanism yelling things like all lives matter. Or what about the toddler that got killed. But all of that is just to make yourself sleep better at night. Sleep better thinking that systemic racism isn’t still prevalent today.

These emotional defense mechanisms can be overcome. By simply taking a step back and asking, what is it about who and what I am that makes me defensive about acknowledging systemic racism? Maybe you grew up poor. Or you were the victim of a crime. Maybe you were born rich and feel entitled to what you had cause your family worked hard for it. Maybe you thought your education or occupation is the product of a balanced meritocracy instead of your lot in life. And maybe you are different and for some reason you should be blind to systemic racism. Maybe someone is just dumb as hell and thinks racism is just good judgment. Cause Jesus was white.

The thing is, these defense mechanisms kick in to preserve the identity we’ve created for ourselves. Who we think we are. Why we are okay with ourselves. There are emotional barriers to accepting outside facts as true to the extent they challenge our own perception of our identity.

For me, it’s that I grew up poor, parents died when I was young and worked my ass off to put myself through school. to raise a family and buy a big house. So, I get defensive if folks use the word privilege. Certainly didn’t feel privileged growing up on Long Island, an hour from the greatest city isn’t the world, in the richest state in the richest country in the world at a time where technology blossomed. All I know is that I had to work two jobs to put myself through college and law school. Haven’t been out of work since I was 14.

But I had to take a step back. Not apologetically or patronizingly. But to say, how would my life have been different if I were black instead of white. How would my speeding ticket stops have taken place differently. My poor white neighborhood was still in a good school district. I learned math and reading. Would I have gotten the same mortgage. Would I have gotten off so easily when the police broke up a party at my house in college? Would I have gotten stopped and frisked on the way to work? After 9/11, the police apologized to me for looking in my bag as I went to work, sorry for the inconvenience.

Point is simple. None of this “what about that kid” or “we should stop gun violence”. They are valid points but distracting from the point being made. We need to all take a step back and ask ourselves why we are willing to look blindly on the systemic racism that pervades our system. Start by asking why you need to point out the black on white violence or the pervasiveness of gun violence instead of simply saying: the way we are treating Black people is wrong. Cause it’s wrong.

I don’t have any answers for exactly how to fix the problem. Starting point for me is to admit my blindnesses and see if I can get more folks like me to open their eyes a bit more too. Might be idealistic, but gotta start somewhere.

knicks1248 wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:IMO ALL LIVES MATTER. CASE CLOSED.

Of course they do, But the lives that are being taken away by the police and their systematic Racism, tends to be black lives.

You have to understand the statement, that's what Roger Goodell and the rest of the world are now starting to wake up and realize.

It’s funny, my six year old read “Black Lives Matter” while we were driving and said “my life matters too. Don’t all lives matter.” I thought to myself for a moment before responding. My wife spoke before I did. Maybe I was scared to answer. Or mildly amused cause I had the first same reaction years ago. But my wife was clear. She said “Yes of course all lives matter, but for a long time Black people haven’t been treated correctly and now we are showing support. Everyone knows you matter, we need to stop and think about how we treat Black people.” My daughter understood that after a sentence. She had follow up questions that took us into slavery, racism, hate. Strong discussion points for a 6 year old. But she got it enough not to be offended because “all lives matter”... let’s just focus on the ones that are having issues right now.

What's the financial "new normal" for the NBA and how will it impact the Knicks and the future of our beloved franchise?

Part of the reason that officiating is so bad and will remain broken is because usually the last half hour of any game is metered out by fouls and free throws and the refs massaging the game length to provide cost certainty to advertisers who buy ad slots with the networks for NBA games. Cost certainty happens when games run within a certain window of length. Games too long on the average will dilute the advertising rate for ad slots during games. Games too short on the average means the league has to indirectly refund money to advertisers via the network contract. Consider the NBA during a normal season averages about 83 playoff games. The average revenue generated just for the NBA is about 2 million for each post season game. There's a ratings and profit benefit to extend playoff series, keep games close until the 4th quarter and actively allow more free play from the league's most marketable players on top of managing game length.

Cost certainty is the big problem here. Without it, advertisers, with parent companies already hit hard with the pandemic, devalue commercial time associated with NBA games and ancillary broadcasts. If you have the constant risk of players deciding to go on strike every time someone gets into a conflict/shooting/death with the police and it spins out into the media/sports media/social media, this creates a destabilizing effect on all future TV contracts. And whether we like it or not, there will always be a new shooting or death that will potentially ignite these players.

Yes, this does impact billionaires and millionaires, whom the average person probably doesn't want to see arguing about money on TV. But this trickles down to people who clean the arenas, people who answer phones, people who drive trucks, people who cook, people who attend the locker rooms, people who do the accounting, people who work in the film room, people who do the concessions and the list goes on and on.

The financial collapse of the NBA, if it happens, hurts regular working people trying to put food on the table for their kids the most.

The university I played for, the college football program and the revenue it generated, paid for/subsidized the cost of the other college sports. How do you think the fencing team or the judo team survives? This is true for many universities and even extends to some high school football teams in Texas. Those football teams earn enough to pay for the female gymnastics squad or the badminton team.

The point being there is always a ripple effect when it comes to anything but especially in professional sports and the most high profile sports.

NBA players, as a group, have acted impulsively. You can argue the rights and wrongs of it all day. They have a lot of power and have a large public platform, but too much of their response comes without measured thought, planning and accounting for everyone involved. No one is talking about the lady cleaning bathrooms in the bubble who might lose her job if the NBA players stopped playing. But no one is going to say it, besides maybe Charles Barkley and a few others, because they know being seen as "not woke enough" will get them hosed in the court of public opinion.

Look at that destruction in Minnesota. Those are mostly regular people. Just trying to get by like everyone else.

Taking this back to the NBA. The current group of players, particularly the most influential ones, have done their part to hasten the collapse of the entire sport. The only solace here is at least our beloved Knicks weren't there. This isn't the legacy that NBA players wanted, but it's the legacy they dragged with them at the cost of everyone else around them.