JamesKPolk wrote:Smith Jr is Mills' guy and he will get as many opportunities as he can as long as Mills is employed here.

This coming from a guy that thinks the whole team is a dumpster fire yet thinks a guy that had 14/5.4 for us last year, 15/5 his first year, has played minimal minutes since 12/11 and is at a career low in value should stay on the bench in favor of what exactly? Because the other point guards have been lighting it up? Question, What did Frank shoot in 5 games before the Brooklyn game? Hint 6 for 32. Yet Knicks should give him all the minutes? Keep a Smith on the bench? That's not only unfair but pretty stupid.

This whole **** about making a game thread about Frank is getting old. Guys losing their **** because Frank did not get his chance and blaming Smith for every little mistake. Guess his 7 points and 14 minutes of play really killed us last night. Yet no mention of Dotson, Portis, Bullock, Knox going 7 for 25??? No mention of Mitch scoring 4 points in 25 minutes? No mention of Frank's 2 fouls in 3 minutes? Yep. All makes sense.

Elfrid had a near triple double statline that if Frank had we would be praising him to the heavens.

Let's be fair in our evaluations.

Elfrid is starting because he is our best option to start.

We gave Frank his turn as starter and he will get his turn again someday but Elfrid is clearly a more steady hand on the rudder than Frank. Elfrid has been averaging close to double-double in points and assists the last 7 games. Yeah he's not a shooter but Frank goes 0-8 and we're still positive about his development, right? So be consistent. Elf is 25. It's not like he can't improve.

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

True but continuity is only needed if you still think we have a chance at the playoffs. Playing Payton as starting PG doesn't help us in any way. However, maybe this isn't the time to do it either the same way DSJr is being showcased. Showcase Payton also until after the trade deadline then make the change.

Arguably Frank needed a reset. He had been in an awful shooting slump

I am a big Frank supporter but at the same time maddeningly frustrated with his offense. He needs a pg-whisperer or a hypnotist. Given his size and IQ he should be much better than this (no not seeing a juggernaut on offense, but c'mon... It's like he's Chuck Knoblauch throwing to first base sometimes)

Chandler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

True but continuity is only needed if you still think we have a chance at the playoffs. Playing Payton as starting PG doesn't help us in any way. However, maybe this isn't the time to do it either the same way DSJr is being showcased. Showcase Payton also until after the trade deadline then make the change.

Arguably Frank needed a reset. He had been in an awful shooting slump

I am a big Frank supporter but at the same time maddeningly frustrated with his offense. He needs a pg-whisperer or a hypnotist. Given his size and IQ he should be much better than this (no not seeing a juggernaut on offense, but c'mon... It's like he's Chuck Knoblauch throwing to first base sometimes)

I actually think Franks problem is his deference to vets. I am not sure how to fix that. His offensive skills and IQ are very good. His shot looks mechanically correct. As Clyde would say, he just needs confidence. His PnR game is also on point. Yup....maddening.

NYKBocker wrote:

Chandler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

True but continuity is only needed if you still think we have a chance at the playoffs. Playing Payton as starting PG doesn't help us in any way. However, maybe this isn't the time to do it either the same way DSJr is being showcased. Showcase Payton also until after the trade deadline then make the change.

Arguably Frank needed a reset. He had been in an awful shooting slump

I am a big Frank supporter but at the same time maddeningly frustrated with his offense. He needs a pg-whisperer or a hypnotist. Given his size and IQ he should be much better than this (no not seeing a juggernaut on offense, but c'mon... It's like he's Chuck Knoblauch throwing to first base sometimes)

I actually think Franks problem is his deference to vets. I am not sure how to fix that. His offensive skills and IQ are very good. His shot looks mechanically correct. As Clyde would say, he just needs confidence. His PnR game is also on point. Yup....maddening.

they should hire the french coach in some capacity as an assistant or consultant. He needs to absorb that hitting those open shots and abusing smaller defenders will actually help his teammater

oddly about a week back he was attempting to throw it down on Dwight Howard (and i forget who else the game before) but he won't throw it down on undersized defenders

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

DSJ, when healthy, has been playing all season and usually getting more time over Frank.

No he hasn't, and this is an easy thing to look up and verify.

This is low level stuff man

Yeah, and like I said, early on when DSJ was 'healthy' he played more than Frank. He received regular minutes.

You're a very defensive guy over this front office. You have been for quite some time.

I'm not entirely sure what you have invested in Steve Mills and Scott Perry but the bottom line is this:

I've said similar stuff about awful teams in the past. About Phil, Isiah, Grunwald, etc. You know what happened? People like you coming at me like I'm the devil and making it about how I'm miserable and hate the franchise. And every single damn time the Knicks have proved the collective sports world right. And they're doing it again now. I wonder if you'll go back and address all the time you lambasted someone for having an opinion that was different than yours which ended up being the correct opinion? Probably not, but it would be nice to see.

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

DSJ, when healthy, has been playing all season and usually getting more time over Frank.

No he hasn't, and this is an easy thing to look up and verify.

This is low level stuff man

Yeah, and like I said, early on when DSJ was 'healthy' he played more than Frank. He received regular minutes.

You're a very defensive guy over this front office. You have been for quite some time.

I'm not entirely sure what you have invested in Steve Mills and Scott Perry but the bottom line is this:

I've said similar stuff about awful teams in the past. About Phil, Isiah, Grunwald, etc. You know what happened? People like you coming at me like I'm the devil and making it about how I'm miserable and hate the franchise. And every single damn time the Knicks have proved the collective sports world right. And they're doing it again now. I wonder if you'll go back and address all the time you lambasted someone for having an opinion that was different than yours which ended up being the correct opinion? Probably not, but it would be nice to see.

There are handful of folks here that keep saying things like "all the people around here that support this FO.." who the phuck are these people? I cant remember Martin ever defending them. Asking for accuracy is not the same as defending the FO.

When was the last stretch DSj played more than Frank?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithde03/gamelog/2020

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Smith Jr is Mills' guy and he will get as many opportunities as he can as long as Mills is employed here.

This coming from a guy that thinks the whole team is a dumpster fire yet thinks a guy that had 14/5.4 for us last year, 15/5 his first year, has played minimal minutes since 12/11 and is at a career low in value should stay on the bench in favor of what exactly? Because the other point guards have been lighting it up? Question, What did Frank shoot in 5 games before the Brooklyn game? Hint 6 for 32. Yet Knicks should give him all the minutes? Keep a Smith on the bench? Stop.

This whole **** about making a game thread about Frank is getting old. Guys losing their **** because Frank did not get his chance and blaming Smith for any little ****. Including his 7 points and 14 minutes of play. It really killed us last night. Yet no mention of Dotson, Portis, Bullock, Knox going 7 for 25??? No mention of Mitch scoring 4 points in 25 minutes? No mention of Frank's 2 fouls in 3 minutes? Yep. All makes sense.

Actually, no one is doing that. Feel like pretty much everyone thought it was reasonable for DSJr to be getting minutes in lieu of showcasing him before trade deadline. Further, I think it was a good tactical thing to bring in Frank even for 3 minutes at the end of the game and it happened to work out for the best for Frank, not so much for the outcome though.

You might be getting it backwards?

Doing what? Ok, Should have specified. Guys saying "DSJ, when healthy, has been playing all season and usually getting more time over Frank" or "DSJ just played maliciously. He can't get out of here soon enough." or "Talent without a brain is no talent at all. We spend more time pandering to showcasing this mofo than is ever worth it. He belongs in China" or "Sorry, it’s not silly. It’s the truth. That’s who Mills wanted to draft but Phil went with Frank. Facts" = Losing your ****. Love how everyone tries to make this about Smiths ability and not about some other bull**** that makes them root against the kid and root solely for Frank. Great Seems fair.

Btw, hope that "putting Smith in just to showcase his talents" is not what is taking place. If it is than the Knicks are making a mistake and as dumb as everyone suspects. What exactly is the point of trading a kid that is 22 had two good years and is now at his lowest trade value? Hmmm. If that's the case lets get a second for Frank and second for Knox and release Dot. I mean... same thought pattern. As mentioned above, I know its tough to fathom, for Frank fans, but do you think that maybe the reason they brought/showcased Smith in last night was due to Franks usual inconsistent season, 6 for 25 shooting and Smith's production and athletic ability shown first two years? How bout guys just say the truth, they want Smith gone so their boy can get yet another year of chances. Chip here we come. Frank's 5 and 5 and solid defense will to get us the crown. lmao

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am one of the bigger Frank fans in here but I understand why they played DSJr right now. Trade deadline is coming and he needs to be showcased. Since I am a big Frank fan, my only question why not just bench Payton instead and start Frank and let DSJr back him up. Need to keep developing the youngins and its not like Payton is head and shoulders better than Frank.

Because you keep some continuity.

Couple of games playing DSJr over Frank ain't gonna kill any type of development for Frank over the long haul.

DSJ, when healthy, has been playing all season and usually getting more time over Frank.

No he hasn't, and this is an easy thing to look up and verify.

This is low level stuff man

Yeah, and like I said, early on when DSJ was 'healthy' he played more than Frank. He received regular minutes.

You're a very defensive guy over this front office. You have been for quite some time.

I'm not entirely sure what you have invested in Steve Mills and Scott Perry but the bottom line is this:

I've said similar stuff about awful teams in the past. About Phil, Isiah, Grunwald, etc. You know what happened? People like you coming at me like I'm the devil and making it about how I'm miserable and hate the franchise. And every single damn time the Knicks have proved the collective sports world right. And they're doing it again now. I wonder if you'll go back and address all the time you lambasted someone for having an opinion that was different than yours which ended up being the correct opinion? Probably not, but it would be nice to see.

I am here to point out facts to you, nothing more nothing less.

Point to the games where DJ played more than Frank

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithde03/gamelog/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2020

In the broad swath of games that DJ has played, Frank has pretty much started, averaging about, what's a good guess, 30 minutes? DJ came off bench and maybe got 20.

The games are numbered and dated, so provide those games you are talking about and make it a trend to support "DSJ, when healthy, has been playing all season and usually getting more time over Frank."

Guys, I'm really done with this level of ineptness, I'm not having it on this site.

Go for it, back up your statements

Hey look at that, Frank played more when he was healthy. Pretty sure DSJ was been considered ‘injured’ 75% of the season between the death of his stepmother, his back and then his oblique. So there hasn’t been much of an opportunity to put my statement to the test. But looks like he got less minutes than Frank when he played. Great. He got an opportunity to play minutes that he was undeserving of getting due to a front office that’s invested in him.

Arguing semantics about one guy getting 25 minutes and the other guy getting 30 minutes proves what exactly? What’s the argument? I don’t care about Frank. This isn’t a Frank discussion. This is a front office wants guys playing at all costs discussion. Explain to me our current starting lineup and rotation and how it makes any sense for a ‘rebuilding my team. At this point Elfrid Payton, another bust draft pick Perry is obsessed with, gets more minutes than both the other point guards combined. Why? Explain to me what the front office is doing instead of a long winded argument about 20 minutes vs. 30 minutes because the entire argument you’re trying to make is irrelevant in the entire grand scheme.

I want to know why a ‘rebuilding’ team wants all veterans playing, why a ‘rebuilding’ team
Spent $70 million on role playing veterans who don’t compliment each other at all and why Mills and Perry believes that Knox, DSJ and others were good young players worth pursuing. These are much more important questions that needs answers than DSJ.