fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/864879501087584257/photo/1

Does Chris Webber know how FA works these days? Because players who are wanted aren't signing elsewhere and leaving suitcases of cash on the table. Secondly, if they are stupid enough to believe that Melo's history of failure here and his NTC somehow will impact their contract, they are way too stupid to want here.

These arguments are moronic. Melo's buddies claim that it affects their choices? Bullsh@t.

Anyone with anything remotely negative towards the knicks is moronic in your book, and chris webber who has been involved in the nba probably before you were born (OVER 20 yrs), and has dozens of friends, know dozens of agents, doesn't know how FA works...ARE FCKNG KIIDING ME DUDE..smh

Its the anti-Phil gestapo! Duck!

Ya kidding right, did I mention a word about phil, mr anti melo

TripleThreat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

It's not desperation, it's an attempt to gain leverage.

Melo doesn't care about winning. Seemingly, at all. That is a bit of anomaly against most professional athletes. Lots of players in his situation would be pushing to get out the door.

It would be generally bad strategy IF there was no NTC and if the player in question wanted to win somewhere at the end of his career

But Jackson is using the only thing that seems to motivate Melo, which is using the public perception against him and to hit his public image for "branding"

Jackson can either get nothing for Melo, watch him rot on this roster for two more years as team poison, or try to drive him off the roster right now.

He's picking the lesser of two evils.

Saying Jackson is driving down Melo's trade value is opposing the two factors which determine where most free agents sign - Max Money/Max Years and the chance to win/contend. It's not like anyone just conjured these two things out of thin air, these are things established by simply observing the NBA marketplace over time, esp the current and modern era.

A) He needs a scapegoat. It's easier to say Melo was harming the team's development than to say he put together a bad 15-man roster.
B) He actually believes he put together a good roster and the team's struggles were due to Melo. And he thinks the team will play well once he gets rid of Melo.
C) He doesn't want to have to explain to the media why he waived Melo and we are eating the remaining $54 mil he's owed over 2 years. He'd rather just get $54 mil worth of players in a trade who contribute nothing over the next 2 years (which is really no better) than waive Melo.

There have been many terrible GMs in league history but I can't remember any of them putting themselves in this situation.

Bonn1997 wrote: You have to wonder what great assets he's expecting to get back in a Melo trade ....

This is where I think the problem lies in terms of people disagreeing about Melo's trade value being impacted by Jackson's statements.

I think some folks believe there is a "good trade of value" out there for Melo. That there is at least one option out there that is a net positive for the team in terms of return of assets.

There is not.

This is not about good value trade versus bad value trade

This is about JUST HAVING ANY TRADE AT ALL VERSUS HAVING NO TRADE AT ALL

If you believe Melo has net positive trade value, I can see where the perspective could be that the trade value could GO DOWN in some way. The problem is he does not have a net positive trade value of any kind.

He's an aging player. With low positional value. Who does not play team basketball. Who will not play defense. Who will stop all ball movement. He controls essentially where he will be traded and what goes back. He has a massive cap number that few teams could integrate and still have him operate as he would need to on a contending team - a luxury item but not a core one you could build around. He creates a "double hit" scenario, where you are not just losing assets in a trade, but the implied opportunity cost of the cap space needed to absorb said massive contract.

ANY TRADE of Melo now is going to be a bad value trade. Period. There is no golden option where a team will magically set up a net positive for the Knicks in terms of return. The question is whether you will get a bad value trade AT ALL or NOT AT ALL.

If you have a brain tumor and 2 months to live, does it matter that you just got HIV from a Thai hooker in a seedy brothel this past week? You have a player who has no desire or care for actual team basketball or winning. Does it matter if you say anything that will piss him off? What is going to do? Start playing in a way that makes you lose instead of win? Well, HE'S DOING THAT ALREADY. HE'S DOING THAT EVEN IF YOU SAY NOTHING. So what's to lose by saying something?

Jackson is shaming Melo with words? How about Melo should be ASHAMED OF HOW HE'S PLAYING FOR THIS TEAM. Play the game the right way, be a net positive instead of a net negative and odds are they will want to KEEP YOU INSTEAD OF DUMPING YOU.

This is not good deal versus bad deal, this is bad deal versus no deal period.

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/864879501087584257/photo/1

When has a free agent wanted to come to the Knicks? Besides what free agent is going to put the Knicks on top with Cleveland around. I really don't care for any free agents. The window is closed why would you want free agents to come here for no shot at a championship. Its a waste of time and developmental time for the young players. Let the young guys play who knows maybe they create a window of opportunity 3, 4, 5 years down the road. Honestly I don't even want to even entertain a free agent.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/864879501087584257/photo/1

When has a free agent wanted to come to the Knicks? Besides what free agent is going to put the Knicks on top with Cleveland around. I really don't care for any free agents. The window is closed why would you want free agents to come here for no shot at a championship. Its a waste of time and developmental time for the young players. Let the young guys play who knows maybe they create a window of opportunity 3, 4, 5 years down the road. Honestly I don't even want to even entertain a free agent.

I still don't think the approach should be to crush any chance of being able to sign reasonable players. I think this puts the Knicks in the market for Phil to make more mistakes. Overpaying for older, injury prone players on the decline that have no where else to go.

Only reason he did that was he wanted a vet team to appease Melo. Haven't you guys noticed there isn't much out there. Honestly no one wants to play with Melo. They want Melo to come play with them but they don't want to come play with Melo. In 4-5 years everyone will forget who Melo was.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/864879501087584257/photo/1

When has a free agent wanted to come to the Knicks? Besides what free agent is going to put the Knicks on top with Cleveland around. I really don't care for any free agents. The window is closed why would you want free agents to come here for no shot at a championship. Its a waste of time and developmental time for the young players. Let the young guys play who knows maybe they create a window of opportunity 3, 4, 5 years down the road. Honestly I don't even want to even entertain a free agent.

I still don't think the approach should be to crush any chance of being able to sign reasonable players. I think this puts the Knicks in the market for Phil to make more mistakes. Overpaying for older, injury prone players on the decline that have no where else to go.

Only reason he did that was he wanted a vet team to appease Melo. Haven't you guys noticed there isn't much out there. Honestly no one wants to play with Melo. They want Melo to come play with them but they don't want to come play with Melo. In 4-5 years everyone will forget who Melo was.

TripleThreat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote: You have to wonder what great assets he's expecting to get back in a Melo trade ....

This is where I think the problem lies in terms of people disagreeing about Melo's trade value being impacted by Jackson's statements.

I think some folks believe there is a "good trade of value" out there for Melo. That there is at least one option out there that is a net positive for the team in terms of return of assets.

There is not.

This is not about good value trade versus bad value trade

This is about JUST HAVING ANY TRADE AT ALL VERSUS HAVING NO TRADE AT ALL

If you believe Melo has net positive trade value, I can see where the perspective could be that the trade value could GO DOWN in some way. The problem is he does not have a net positive trade value of any kind.

He's an aging player. With low positional value. Who does not play team basketball. Who will not play defense. Who will stop all ball movement. He controls essentially where he will be traded and what goes back. He has a massive cap number that few teams could integrate and still have him operate as he would need to on a contending team - a luxury item but not a core one you could build around. He creates a "double hit" scenario, where you are not just losing assets in a trade, but the implied opportunity cost of the cap space needed to absorb said massive contract.

ANY TRADE of Melo now is going to be a bad value trade. Period. There is no golden option where a team will magically set up a net positive for the Knicks in terms of return. The question is whether you will get a bad value trade AT ALL or NOT AT ALL.

If you have a brain tumor and 2 months to live, does it matter that you just got HIV from a Thai hooker in a seedy brothel this past week? You have a player who has no desire or care for actual team basketball or winning. Does it matter if you say anything that will piss him off? What is going to do? Start playing in a way that makes you lose instead of win? Well, HE'S DOING THAT ALREADY. HE'S DOING THAT EVEN IF YOU SAY NOTHING. So what's to lose by saying something?

Jackson is shaming Melo with words? How about Melo should be ASHAMED OF HOW HE'S PLAYING FOR THIS TEAM. Play the game the right way, be a net positive instead of a net negative and odds are they will want to KEEP YOU INSTEAD OF DUMPING YOU.

This is not good deal versus bad deal, this is bad deal versus no deal period.

A bad deal by definition makes the team worse than beforehand. I don't think Phil would be doing this if he thought he couldn't get something worthwhile for Melo. You may right and Phil is wrong here (that wouldn't be a shocker), though.

Sinix wrote:I feel like Phils comments towards Melo are Phil trying to throw emotional haymakers to Melo in public to get a message across that Melo is not getting. That his time as a Knick is over.

Phil is also letting the fans know, if the Knicks don't move forward with a rebuild, which they sorely need, it's not Phils choice. It's the Knicks being held hostage by Carmelo Anthony.

Honestly Melo has failed the Knicks since day 1 when he demanded a trade to the Knicks instead of coming to a Knicks loaded with assets. Melo said he was good enough to win on his own. Oops, Melo failed to deliver since the start. Since then he's put himself above anyone else who's tried to be a leader here- Phil, Lin, D'antoni and more. It's time to go Melo.

You and I don't disagree about Melo, but Melo is Phil's fault, as are the rest of the problems with the roster. It's not like some other President was filling in for Phil the day Melo was given the largest basketball contract in the world (at the time) and the ntc and trade kiciker were thrown in just in case the largest contract alone wasn't enticing enough for Melo.

For whatever Melo's been, his contract isn't terrible now and he's put the Knicks in position to get an asset out of him. It would not have been better to lose Melo for nothing a few years ago.

Both Melo and Phil wanted to take a shot at being a playoff team. It didn't work out. Responsibility is on both parties. It's clearly time for both parties to move forward and that means Melo leaving and Phil rebuilding.