holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil finally speaks....Taking a big shot a Melo...How long does Dolan just watch this???

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829062793802420224

this is beyond Lame! You're begging Dolan to fix this. No credibility

Sorry, this is the ugly side of Phil fixing the problem; next stop is Melo riding a bus or riding pine

Phil is now hurting the franchise...How is this helping the franchise???

it does one of two things: it either lights a fire under Melo's ass like nothing else will. We know merely scoring (even efficiently) is not enough; or it gets Melo fed up and he agrees to a trade (which BTW I don't see people knocking down our door).

That to me is positive. Stroking Melo's ego hasn't worked. He's regressed. Last year he played more well-rounded. No idea what got into his head this year but he's been very selfish

Besides weren't you the number one bellyacher about Phil's silence?

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil finally speaks....Taking a big shot a Melo...How long does Dolan just watch this???

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829062793802420224

this is beyond Lame! You're begging Dolan to fix this. No credibility

Sorry, this is the ugly side of Phil fixing the problem; next stop is Melo riding a bus or riding pine

Phil is now hurting the franchise...How is this helping the franchise???

it does one of two things: it either lights a fire under Melo's ass like nothing else will. We know merely scoring (even efficiently) is not enough; or it gets Melo fed up and he agrees to a trade (which BTW I don't see people knocking down our door).

That to me is positive. Stroking Melo's ego hasn't worked. He's regressed. Last year he played more well-rounded. No idea what got into his head this year but he's been very selfish

Besides weren't you the number one bellyacher about Phil's silence?

Well I was more hoping for a rah rah, the franchise isn't imploding, type speal ...So now he furthers devalue Melo, makes the destination toxic, and further promotes what's been happening here for decades..Does this scream culture change to you???

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.

Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.

Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.

exactly.. but this is the Knicks where posters believe the GM should address them directly.

If a news article derails your season it wasnt mean to be. End of story. Phil should be quiet right now working on moving Melo and Rose and thats it.

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil finally speaks....Taking a big shot a Melo...How long does Dolan just watch this???

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829062793802420224

this is beyond Lame! You're begging Dolan to fix this. No credibility

Sorry, this is the ugly side of Phil fixing the problem; next stop is Melo riding a bus or riding pine

Phil is now hurting the franchise...How is this helping the franchise???

it does one of two things: it either lights a fire under Melo's ass like nothing else will. We know merely scoring (even efficiently) is not enough; or it gets Melo fed up and he agrees to a trade (which BTW I don't see people knocking down our door).

That to me is positive. Stroking Melo's ego hasn't worked. He's regressed. Last year he played more well-rounded. No idea what got into his head this year but he's been very selfish

Besides weren't you the number one bellyacher about Phil's silence?

Well I was more hoping for a rah rah, the franchise isn't imploding, type speal ...So now he furthers devalue Melo, makes the destination toxic, and further promotes what's been happening here for decades..Does this scream culture change to you???

Look all it did is make it clearer Phil wants Melo out. It did nothing for Melo's value. Teams will make that decision by looking at his stats and film, talking to their coaches and players. I think teams like Clips and Cavs in particular both know they can benefit from Melo in ways we can't by having him play off CP3 or Bron who are spectacular with the ball in their hands. And they know that Phil knows this too. Issue is whether either team will do something to improve their odds against GS which improved itself immensely

If you think Phil commenting on Melo devalued him, so too did Karl, and MDA

And I wouldn't agree to the toxic comment. It could be the case that the environment is currently toxic because the team doesn't like to stand around on offense and watch him pound the rock. That may be the cause of the lethargy.

Honesly, Melo is better if he leaves (if he cares about winning); and the Knicks will be better (eventually) if he leaves.

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097739183075330

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097885589442560

fitzfarm wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil finally speaks....Taking a big shot a Melo...How long does Dolan just watch this???

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829062793802420224

this is beyond Lame! You're begging Dolan to fix this. No credibility

Sorry, this is the ugly side of Phil fixing the problem; next stop is Melo riding a bus or riding pine

Phil is now hurting the franchise...How is this helping the franchise???

As I agree that publicly calling out a player he's trying to move is a bad choice. But melo is setting a terrible example for KP and the young guns with his zero effort on defense/ and his inability to accept playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle to the other players . We have to be the only team that just walks down the court takes 12 secs or more and just dumps the ball to melo while everyone else is just standing around looking like here we go with the ball hog hoisting up low percentage contested jumpers ... it's killing the team chemistry.

When melo actually passes the ball after 5 games of melo ball we win and he looks brilliant. Then it's back to melo ball ... Phil and the writer are just stating the obvious he refuses to change or pass the torch. It's time for melo to buy into team ball and play some f'n defense !!!

So you think KP's poor defense is becuase he watches Melo?

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097739183075330

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097885589442560

first tweet is interesting if true. However, the gripe here doesn't seem to be laziness. Just the opposite; most are saying he turned the roster over too much. Gripe is whether he was wise, not lazy

Second one seems lame. Melo's accomplishments are real but not in the same ballpark as Phil's. That can't be seriously debated

The irony here is Phil as a coach has dealt with some of the absolute biggest personalities (i.e., head strong) in the sport. Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Rodman, Artest. It's not likely his roster was Duncan and Kawhi. It must be maddening to him that Melo is just telling him eff you. I'll jack shots whenever I feel like it

I think the laziness here is not putting in the background work on big trades - the Tyson trade, the JR/Shump dump, the DRose trade... all of those had some massive drawbacks which could have been mitigated by someone who approached it from more angles. Phil likes to say he had a chance to grab Jae Crowder in the Dallas trade and passed... what was the logic there? Why pass? JR and Shump are still rotational players for Cleveland - in fact you could easily say Cleveland has really struggled since JR has been injured... doesn't that mean they have more value than what we got in return? Tyson is still a starter in the NBA and got a $50M contract after he was traded away from the Knicks (and before the cap went up) - doesn't that mean he had a lot more value back in 2014?

Phil had some decent chips to trade (or, you know, keep and try to develop) - he burned them by selling low because they didn't fit the Triangle... we're still waiting for those elusive players that fit the Triangle.

He also supposedly doesn't scout much in person. Luckily, we seem to have some good scouts on staff.

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097739183075330

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097885589442560

first tweet is interesting if true. However, the gripe here doesn't seem to be laziness. Just the opposite; most are saying he turned the roster over too much. Gripe is whether he was wise, not lazy

Second one seems lame. Melo's accomplishments are real but not in the same ballpark as Phil's. That can't be seriously debated

The irony here is Phil as a coach has dealt with some of the absolute biggest personalities (i.e., head strong) in the sport. Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Rodman, Artest. It's not likely his roster was Duncan and Kawhi. It must be maddening to him that Melo is just telling him eff you. I'll jack shots whenever I feel like it

I think the laziness here is not putting in the background work on big trades - the Tyson trade, the JR/Shump dump, the DRose trade... all of those had some massive drawbacks which could have been mitigated by someone who approached it from more angles. Phil likes to say he had a chance to grab Jae Crowder in the Dallas trade and passed... what was the logic there? Why pass? JR and Shump are still rotational players for Cleveland - in fact you could easily say Cleveland has really struggled since JR has been injured... doesn't that mean they have more value than what we got in return? Tyson is still a starter in the NBA and got a $50M contract after he was traded away from the Knicks (and before the cap went up) - doesn't that mean he had a lot more value back in 2014?

Phil had some decent chips to trade (or, you know, keep and try to develop) - he burned them by selling low because they didn't fit the Triangle... we're still waiting for those elusive players that fit the Triangle.

He also supposedly doesn't scout much in person. Luckily, we seem to have some good scouts on staff.

fair enough. Trades can always be criticized or applauded, and you raise good examples where he can be questioned. Was he lazy when he got Holiday? What about when they got Baker and Plumlee, better than many teams draft picks. Or what about the trades he didn't make like mentioned above, not trading picks.

Look I get he made mistakes, but even the ones you mention aren't like years past -- like trading all your good players to get Melo in a trade rather than wait for FA . Or Eddy Curry and the various other flavors of that through and including Bargs. Even this year, Rose was considered low risk high reward. If he was a stud we got the chance to test the vehicle before plunking down a long term contract. If he was a dud you let him walk. It's not like he has been all mistakes

I think it a mistake of monumental proportions though to think Melo knows more about winning than Phil does. Or to think Phil has lost touch with reality. I suspect his tweet was an expression of frustration and I also think it was not a dumb move

I suspect Phil tried to talking to Melo about what was needed from him. And Melo, like Graham before him (but for different reasons), decided he knew better than Phil. Honestly, do you think Phil or the coaches were encouraging Melo to play ISO the way he has been, or do you agree that Melo is just deciding ISO is best.

In chess Phil's move is called a gambit. Seems risky but on closer inspection it's not illogical. Phil is challenging Melo. He's calling him out on his shortcomings of team play. Melo can respond and play team ball (we win by at least playing the system we want); Melo can ask for a trade (we win at least in the sense of a better rebuild, will get higher pick, perhaps more picks and players who can contribute and a better opportunity for team to play team ball); or Melo can refuse trade and do his ISO thing.

This is not a dumb move in my opinion

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097739183075330

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/829097885589442560

first tweet is interesting if true. However, the gripe here doesn't seem to be laziness. Just the opposite; most are saying he turned the roster over too much. Gripe is whether he was wise, not lazy

Second one seems lame. Melo's accomplishments are real but not in the same ballpark as Phil's. That can't be seriously debated

The irony here is Phil as a coach has dealt with some of the absolute biggest personalities (i.e., head strong) in the sport. Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Rodman, Artest. It's not likely his roster was Duncan and Kawhi. It must be maddening to him that Melo is just telling him eff you. I'll jack shots whenever I feel like it

I think the laziness here is not putting in the background work on big trades - the Tyson trade, the JR/Shump dump, the DRose trade... all of those had some massive drawbacks which could have been mitigated by someone who approached it from more angles. Phil likes to say he had a chance to grab Jae Crowder in the Dallas trade and passed... what was the logic there? Why pass? JR and Shump are still rotational players for Cleveland - in fact you could easily say Cleveland has really struggled since JR has been injured... doesn't that mean they have more value than what we got in return? Tyson is still a starter in the NBA and got a $50M contract after he was traded away from the Knicks (and before the cap went up) - doesn't that mean he had a lot more value back in 2014?

Phil had some decent chips to trade (or, you know, keep and try to develop) - he burned them by selling low because they didn't fit the Triangle... we're still waiting for those elusive players that fit the Triangle.

He also supposedly doesn't scout much in person. Luckily, we seem to have some good scouts on staff.

fair enough. Trades can always be criticized or applauded, and you raise good examples where he can be questioned. Was he lazy when he got Holiday? What about when they got Baker and Plumlee, better than many teams draft picks. Or what about the trades he didn't make like mentioned above, not trading picks.

Look I get he made mistakes, but even the ones you mention aren't like years past -- like trading all your good players to get Melo in a trade rather than wait for FA . Or Eddy Curry and the various other flavors of that through and including Bargs. Even this year, Rose was considered low risk high reward. If he was a stud we got the chance to test the vehicle before plunking down a long term contract. If he was a dud you let him walk. It's not like he has been all mistakes

I think it a mistake of monumental proportions though to think Melo knows more about winning than Phil does. Or to think Phil has lost touch with reality. I suspect his tweet was an expression of frustration and I also think it was not a dumb move

I suspect Phil tried to talking to Melo about what was needed from him. And Melo, like Graham before him (but for different reasons), decided he knew better than Phil. Honestly, do you think Phil or the coaches were encouraging Melo to play ISO the way he has been, or do you agree that Melo is just deciding ISO is best.

In chess Phil's move is called a gambit. Seems risky but on closer inspection it's not illogical. Phil is challenging Melo. He's calling him out on his shortcomings of team play. Melo can respond and play team ball (we win by at least playing the system we want); Melo can ask for a trade (we win at least in the sense of a better rebuild, will get higher pick, perhaps more picks and players who can contribute and a better opportunity for team to play team ball); or Melo can refuse trade and do his ISO thing.

This is not a dumb move in my opinion

I agree trading Melo is not a bad move. I didn't think it was last year either. But I said then I didn't think Melo was ready in 2016 and I predicted Melo or Phil would be gone by summer 2017.

BUT.

I think how Phil has handled this is awful. It makes the Knicks a joke around the league. It does not remotely help our standing with free agents. It's just a bad job by him.

Tim Bontemps wrote that Phil found away to make the Knicks more dysfunctional then ever before.

It seems obvious to me. The proof will be in the free agent haul this summer.

smackeddog wrote:All these people calling for Phil head- who do you think his successor is going to be? It's going to be Mills with dolan back as overseer- do you really want that because that's all you're going to get.

That's the scary part. I don't think Phil has done a good job... but I have ZERO faith in Dolan to make a good replacement. The good thing about Phil is that he has enough clout for Dolan to stay out of it. The bad thing about Phil has been almost everything outside the draft. Maybe now that we have all our picks in the next few years, Phil can focus on that side.

I really fear that the guy who comes here after Phil will be Isiah. Yes, I'd rather have Phil than Isiah. I'll say that much.