callmened wrote:i think most people here think that the word "posse" wasn't a big deal (including myself). It might have been "dismissive" at worst but not OFFENSIVE or even RACIST

but what concerns me is folks here don't understand WHY LeBron is so sensitive. a lot of black people (not all) are upset, scared and on edge about the racial climate in this country. if this came up during some other time, he wouldn't care as much (he's been called worse). I just hope folks cut LeBron some slack for his emotional "outburst". that's not condoning his actions (implying that phil is a racist) but I hope people UNDERSTAND where hes coming from (a place of hurt, skeptism, fear etc)

again, when I first heard the phil quote, my wife and I were like WTFFF. why? cuz were emotional now! (i told the story of how we were watching family feud the other day. a man said "spain had the most beautiful looking people - our response was WTFFFFFFF. right now ANYTHING can send black people over the edge because were HIGHLY sensitive right now). after we cooled down, we concluded its not a big deal - probably a miscommunication and the 2 need to talk it out

#empathy - it hink this country needs more empathy to understand where another person is coming from, feeling etc. doesn't mean we need to agree - but just try to understand their point of view.

My problem is this type of behavior is counterproductive. Does this help race relations? Or does it establish an egg shells type culture where the wrong choice of words taken out of context has simply unfair repercussions? Here is a case where Lebron could have used this to illuminate how words can imply the lack of respect for accomplished men (as Gustav mentioned above), given Phil a pass and said "we need to look deeper at this stuff and continue to strive for change" etc etc.. instead it pushed more people away and accomplished exactly the opposite of what Lebron says he wants.

fishmike wrote:

callmened wrote:i think most people here think that the word "posse" wasn't a big deal (including myself). It might have been "dismissive" at worst but not OFFENSIVE or even RACIST

but what concerns me is folks here don't understand WHY LeBron is so sensitive. a lot of black people (not all) are upset, scared and on edge about the racial climate in this country. if this came up during some other time, he wouldn't care as much (he's been called worse). I just hope folks cut LeBron some slack for his emotional "outburst". that's not condoning his actions (implying that phil is a racist) but I hope people UNDERSTAND where hes coming from (a place of hurt, skeptism, fear etc)

again, when I first heard the phil quote, my wife and I were like WTFFF. why? cuz were emotional now! (i told the story of how we were watching family feud the other day. a man said "spain had the most beautiful looking people - our response was WTFFFFFFF. right now ANYTHING can send black people over the edge because were HIGHLY sensitive right now). after we cooled down, we concluded its not a big deal - probably a miscommunication and the 2 need to talk it out

#empathy - it hink this country needs more empathy to understand where another person is coming from, feeling etc. doesn't mean we need to agree - but just try to understand their point of view.

He should be sensitive. So should you. The smaller half of America elected a man who openly looks down on your race. Literally. Women should feel exactly the same.

My problem is this type of behavior is counterproductive. Does this help race relations? Or does it establish an egg shells type culture where the wrong choice of words taken out of context has simply unfair repercussions? Here is a case where Lebron could have used this to illuminate how words can imply the lack of respect for accomplished men (as Gustav mentioned above), given Phil a pass and said "we need to look deeper at this stuff and continue to strive for change" etc etc.. instead it pushed more people away and accomplished exactly the opposite of what Lebron says he wants.

great point!

well that's where we might be expecting TOO MUCH from LeBron and these athletes. Lebron isn't an expert in discussing race relations - and I doubt his PR team is. he just reacted and spoke out! hopefully both sides can talk because I do think this was a misunderstanding.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

deliberate implies intent. What are you saying Phil's intent was?

Believe his intent was to make LeBron's business group seem less legitimate. But does he not also come out and call him selfish in the article? To me, Phil has shown,several times, that he is eager to let the world hear his opinion. No matter how, as an NBA executive, it would not be prudent to do so.

His intent was simply to describe the group of buddies that travel with LeBron. One of his friends is nicknamed "Bags." It's not unlike any other situation, where a celeb has an entourage of close friends that does different things for them. But because of the unique opportunities LeBron has given his buddies, they feel like they need to defend their power and legitimacy as more than just an entourage. The best way to do that was to call the word "posse" a derogatory term i guess.

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:I'm a white guy and I totally get where Lebron is coming from. I highly doubt that if Lebron's agent and business manager were 50 year old white guys that Phil would be referring to them as a "posse". And, for the record, here's what Phil thinks of as a posse:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/798637656603115520

Ahh men..Don't tell me they going after Phil for this...But this kind of tells you this isn't really as innocent as we would like to believe..

I dont have a problem with that quote, Lebron was a teenager. But Lebron isn't a kid anymore. Phil is right about the dangers of keeping a large entourage, just have to watch ESPN's "Broke" as told by current and former players themselves. His biggest mistake IMO was underestimating LeBron's capacity for personal growth, and the level of maturity he already possesed at the time.

But he is making that statement again, recently, knowing the man he has matured into..

Its ok to say Tom Brady and his drunken posse getting on board a plane but not ok to say Lebron and his posse? Bottom line two way street--this was a non issue.

Let's clear something up...This isn't the first time LeBron and his crew have been referred as a posse..I'm sure I could find a multitude of articles saying that..But WHO is saying it is important and about whom..Phil Jackson is saying this about LeBron and his business partners...And has said it before in a more unflattering manner also described in a stereotypical way...Read it yourself..He said his posse will fetch cars and fetch girls for them..Who uses the word fetch in today's world...Phil Jackson is very astute and calculating as to exactly what he is saying....

I guess one could take it that way.

LeBron and his guys are both business partners as well as good buddies, they do business together, they go out and have fun together, they grew up together. If it was high noon and they were all walking into Nike headquarters to round out a sneaker deal, posse would seem strange to me and indeed a putdown. Those guys are all strolling to a club on the weekend, posse seems appropriate.

The context of what I think Phil was referring to seemed to be more of that later, his Mom was included in the reference.

Posse not the best choice of word? Sure. Such that LeBron felt the need to handle as he did? Dude should probably check in again with his marketing crew; if he wanted to show himself to be the bigger, smarter, better man he could have made very clear that he was displeased and also not throw down in such a way that divides.

I'll even go one further, maybe Phil looks at LeBron as the biggest name in the NBA and as a competitive individual, feels that taking shots at LeBron might spur some sort cerebral jousting between the two..He has certainly been saying things about LeBron over the years..How about last year when he said that LeBron travels every time he touches the ball...I would love to see LeBron start lobbing shots at Phil on the same scale...Talk about big chief triangle, and how his thinking needs to evolve with the pace and speed of the game..His record as a GM...Thanks for JR and Shump, he got fleeced and is probably sore...

Again I don't think Phil meant it in a manner it was received, with racial overtones..I do certainly think it was meant in a manner to belittle LeBron and his business partners accomplishments...

This is exactly right. I wish that was LeBron's focus instead of the race piece. I just think he is picking the wrong battle at a time where this is a very sensitive issue.

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:anyone reading my comments? just curious. lol

no one can get past the fact that you admitted to watching Family Fued.

AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHA

its like a pregame ritual. we watch fam feud from 600-730. then we watch the knicks

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:I'm a white guy and I totally get where Lebron is coming from. I highly doubt that if Lebron's agent and business manager were 50 year old white guys that Phil would be referring to them as a "posse". And, for the record, here's what Phil thinks of as a posse:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/798637656603115520

Ahh men..Don't tell me they going after Phil for this...But this kind of tells you this isn't really as innocent as we would like to believe..

I dont have a problem with that quote, Lebron was a teenager. But Lebron isn't a kid anymore. Phil is right about the dangers of keeping a large entourage, just have to watch ESPN's "Broke" as told by current and former players themselves. His biggest mistake IMO was underestimating LeBron's capacity for personal growth, and the level of maturity he already possesed at the time.

But he is making that statement again, recently, knowing the man he has matured into..

Its ok to say Tom Brady and his drunken posse getting on board a plane but not ok to say Lebron and his posse? Bottom line two way street--this was a non issue.

Let's clear something up...This isn't the first time LeBron and his crew have been referred as a posse..I'm sure I could find a multitude of articles saying that..But WHO is saying it is important and about whom..Phil Jackson is saying this about LeBron and his business partners...And has said it before in a more unflattering manner also described in a stereotypical way...Read it yourself..He said his posse will fetch cars and fetch girls for them..Who uses the word fetch in today's world...Phil Jackson is very astute and calculating as to exactly what he is saying....

I guess one could take it that way.

LeBron and his guys are both business partners as well as good buddies, they do business together, they go out and have fun together, they grew up together. If it was high noon and they were all walking into Nike headquarters to round out a sneaker deal, posse would seem strange to me and indeed a putdown. Those guys are all strolling to a club on the weekend, posse seems appropriate.

The context of what I think Phil was referring to seemed to be more of that later, his Mom was included in the reference.

Posse not the best choice of word? Sure. Such that LeBron felt the need to handle as he did? Dude should probably check in again with his marketing crew; if he wanted to show himself to be the bigger, smarter, better man he could have made very clear that he was displeased and also not throw down in such a way that divides.

I'll even go one further, maybe Phil looks at LeBron as the biggest name in the NBA and as a competitive individual, feels that taking shots at LeBron might spur some sort cerebral jousting between the two..He has certainly been saying things about LeBron over the years..How about last year when he said that LeBron travels every time he touches the ball...I would love to see LeBron start lobbing shots at Phil on the same scale...Talk about big chief triangle, and how his thinking needs to evolve with the pace and speed of the game..His record as a GM...Thanks for JR and Shump, he got fleeced and is probably sore...Maybe we can send Phil an honorary ring to add to his collection..

Again I don't think Phil meant it in a manner it was received, with racial overtones..I do certainly think it was meant in a manner to belittle LeBron and his business partners accomplishments...

Why do you think it was a belittlement of LeBron and his business partners accomplishments instead of the direct point he was making about getting special treatments?

Nalod wrote:From a coaching and GM/President view, a player whose needs are greater than others are not look upon favorably. Cav's were non too happy with Lebron at times in his first stint and Riles as well. Lebron has made his point many times that he is the one empowered with a franchise.
does that sit well with management at times? Likely not.
Has phil ever been "racist" in his career? if not, give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. Ask Clyde or Willis if they think Phil is a racist then put this to bed.

callmened wrote:

fishmike wrote:

callmened wrote:i think most people here think that the word "posse" wasn't a big deal (including myself). It might have been "dismissive" at worst but not OFFENSIVE or even RACIST

but what concerns me is folks here don't understand WHY LeBron is so sensitive. a lot of black people (not all) are upset, scared and on edge about the racial climate in this country. if this came up during some other time, he wouldn't care as much (he's been called worse). I just hope folks cut LeBron some slack for his emotional "outburst". that's not condoning his actions (implying that phil is a racist) but I hope people UNDERSTAND where hes coming from (a place of hurt, skeptism, fear etc)

again, when I first heard the phil quote, my wife and I were like WTFFF. why? cuz were emotional now! (i told the story of how we were watching family feud the other day. a man said "spain had the most beautiful looking people - our response was WTFFFFFFF. right now ANYTHING can send black people over the edge because were HIGHLY sensitive right now). after we cooled down, we concluded its not a big deal - probably a miscommunication and the 2 need to talk it out

#empathy - it hink this country needs more empathy to understand where another person is coming from, feeling etc. doesn't mean we need to agree - but just try to understand their point of view.

He should be sensitive. So should you. The smaller half of America elected a man who openly looks down on your race. Literally. Women should feel exactly the same.

My problem is this type of behavior is counterproductive. Does this help race relations? Or does it establish an egg shells type culture where the wrong choice of words taken out of context has simply unfair repercussions? Here is a case where Lebron could have used this to illuminate how words can imply the lack of respect for accomplished men (as Gustav mentioned above), given Phil a pass and said "we need to look deeper at this stuff and continue to strive for change" etc etc.. instead it pushed more people away and accomplished exactly the opposite of what Lebron says he wants.

great point!

well that's where we might be expecting TOO MUCH from LeBron and these athletes. Lebron isn't an expert in discussing race relations - and I doubt his PR team is. he just reacted and spoke out! hopefully both sides can talk because I do think this was a misunderstanding.

For me its just another distraction that pulls away from the REAL issues. Attacking the poor race relations in this country isnt starting with Lebron firing off on Phil Jackson. What bothers me is how this distracts from what the real core issues are. We have a racist POTUS elect that has klansmen dancing in the streets. Lebron jumping on Phil really jumps out as a counterproductive distraction to me.

callmened wrote:anyone reading my comments? just curious. lol

I did and I do understand the sensitivity and insecurity steaming form the election which reassured more active position from the large group of population which stated loud and clear that they want to have their part of the pie.
Not sure why some other groups decided that something will be taken from them to satisfy this demands.
I guess the historical experience is to blame for this reaction.
But I totally disagree that man who is on top of the world have rights to use this sensitive situation to bring his critics (write or wrong) down and in the process damage the already bad interracial situation even more.
It is counterproductive and irresponsible.
All of us should stop bringing the race cards as much as possible for everyone's sake.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:I'm a white guy and I totally get where Lebron is coming from. I highly doubt that if Lebron's agent and business manager were 50 year old white guys that Phil would be referring to them as a "posse". And, for the record, here's what Phil thinks of as a posse:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/798637656603115520

Ahh men..Don't tell me they going after Phil for this...But this kind of tells you this isn't really as innocent as we would like to believe..

I dont have a problem with that quote, Lebron was a teenager. But Lebron isn't a kid anymore. Phil is right about the dangers of keeping a large entourage, just have to watch ESPN's "Broke" as told by current and former players themselves. His biggest mistake IMO was underestimating LeBron's capacity for personal growth, and the level of maturity he already possesed at the time.

But he is making that statement again, recently, knowing the man he has matured into..

Its ok to say Tom Brady and his drunken posse getting on board a plane but not ok to say Lebron and his posse? Bottom line two way street--this was a non issue.

Let's clear something up...This isn't the first time LeBron and his crew have been referred as a posse..I'm sure I could find a multitude of articles saying that..But WHO is saying it is important and about whom..Phil Jackson is saying this about LeBron and his business partners...And has said it before in a more unflattering manner also described in a stereotypical way...Read it yourself..He said his posse will fetch cars and fetch girls for them..Who uses the word fetch in today's world...Phil Jackson is very astute and calculating as to exactly what he is saying....

I guess one could take it that way.

LeBron and his guys are both business partners as well as good buddies, they do business together, they go out and have fun together, they grew up together. If it was high noon and they were all walking into Nike headquarters to round out a sneaker deal, posse would seem strange to me and indeed a putdown. Those guys are all strolling to a club on the weekend, posse seems appropriate.

The context of what I think Phil was referring to seemed to be more of that later, his Mom was included in the reference.

Posse not the best choice of word? Sure. Such that LeBron felt the need to handle as he did? Dude should probably check in again with his marketing crew; if he wanted to show himself to be the bigger, smarter, better man he could have made very clear that he was displeased and also not throw down in such a way that divides.

I'll even go one further, maybe Phil looks at LeBron as the biggest name in the NBA and as a competitive individual, feels that taking shots at LeBron might spur some sort cerebral jousting between the two..He has certainly been saying things about LeBron over the years..How about last year when he said that LeBron travels every time he touches the ball...I would love to see LeBron start lobbing shots at Phil on the same scale...Talk about big chief triangle, and how his thinking needs to evolve with the pace and speed of the game..His record as a GM...Thanks for JR and Shump, he got fleeced and is probably sore...Maybe we can send Phil an honorary ring to add to his collection..

Again I don't think Phil meant it in a manner it was received, with racial overtones..I do certainly think it was meant in a manner to belittle LeBron and his business partners accomplishments...

Why do you think it was a belittlement of LeBron and his business partners accomplishments instead of the direct point he was making about getting special treatments?

If it was about only about special treatment why use a term like posse which can be inflammatory??..Business partners doesn't work for Phil or Riley??LeBron's group had been a much discussed entity within and outside NBA circles for some time..I would even argue that the business group that LeBron formed is a large component of the whole special treatment/being different moniker that is currently being leveled at LeBron..I can remember days on end that Mike and Mad Dogg would hammer at LeBron's decision to create the business group...Mike also hammered at LeBron support Lue over Blatt under that whole special treatment umbrella..It's a sore point for them an Phil knows that...So you are telling me Phil couldn't get his point across without injecting term 'posse"..

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:I'm a white guy and I totally get where Lebron is coming from. I highly doubt that if Lebron's agent and business manager were 50 year old white guys that Phil would be referring to them as a "posse". And, for the record, here's what Phil thinks of as a posse:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/798637656603115520

Ahh men..Don't tell me they going after Phil for this...But this kind of tells you this isn't really as innocent as we would like to believe..

I dont have a problem with that quote, Lebron was a teenager. But Lebron isn't a kid anymore. Phil is right about the dangers of keeping a large entourage, just have to watch ESPN's "Broke" as told by current and former players themselves. His biggest mistake IMO was underestimating LeBron's capacity for personal growth, and the level of maturity he already possesed at the time.

But he is making that statement again, recently, knowing the man he has matured into..

Its ok to say Tom Brady and his drunken posse getting on board a plane but not ok to say Lebron and his posse? Bottom line two way street--this was a non issue.

Let's clear something up...This isn't the first time LeBron and his crew have been referred as a posse..I'm sure I could find a multitude of articles saying that..But WHO is saying it is important and about whom..Phil Jackson is saying this about LeBron and his business partners...And has said it before in a more unflattering manner also described in a stereotypical way...Read it yourself..He said his posse will fetch cars and fetch girls for them..Who uses the word fetch in today's world...Phil Jackson is very astute and calculating as to exactly what he is saying....

I guess one could take it that way.

LeBron and his guys are both business partners as well as good buddies, they do business together, they go out and have fun together, they grew up together. If it was high noon and they were all walking into Nike headquarters to round out a sneaker deal, posse would seem strange to me and indeed a putdown. Those guys are all strolling to a club on the weekend, posse seems appropriate.

The context of what I think Phil was referring to seemed to be more of that later, his Mom was included in the reference.

Posse not the best choice of word? Sure. Such that LeBron felt the need to handle as he did? Dude should probably check in again with his marketing crew; if he wanted to show himself to be the bigger, smarter, better man he could have made very clear that he was displeased and also not throw down in such a way that divides.

I'll even go one further, maybe Phil looks at LeBron as the biggest name in the NBA and as a competitive individual, feels that taking shots at LeBron might spur some sort cerebral jousting between the two..He has certainly been saying things about LeBron over the years..How about last year when he said that LeBron travels every time he touches the ball...I would love to see LeBron start lobbing shots at Phil on the same scale...Talk about big chief triangle, and how his thinking needs to evolve with the pace and speed of the game..His record as a GM...Thanks for JR and Shump, he got fleeced and is probably sore...Maybe we can send Phil an honorary ring to add to his collection..

Again I don't think Phil meant it in a manner it was received, with racial overtones..I do certainly think it was meant in a manner to belittle LeBron and his business partners accomplishments...

Why do you think it was a belittlement of LeBron and his business partners accomplishments instead of the direct point he was making about getting special treatments?

If it was about only about special treatment why use a term like posse which can be inflammatory??..Business partners doesn't work for Phil or Riley??LeBron's group had been a much discussed entity within and outside NBA circles for some time..I would even argue that the business group that LeBron formed is a large component of the whole special treatment/being different moniker that is currently being leveled at LeBron..I can remember days on end that Mike and Mad Dogg would hammer at LeBron's decision to create the business group...Mike also hammered at LeBron support Lue over Blatt under that whole special treatment umbrella..It's a sore point for them an Phil knows that...So you are telling me Phil couldn't get his point across without injecting term 'posse"..

And the fact that Phil, decided to use the term "posse", which he is repeating from an earlier conversation with Riley, further proves that it is premeditated and used to inflame the conversation...Phil and Riley are goofing on LeBron's group...