meloshouldgo wrote:I am not averse to to taking risks and if Durant ever had any intention of coming here I think this is about as good a team as we could have reasonably hoped to put together to woo him. IMO the risk in this case was not worth taking given our last all out clusterphuck attempt for LeBron. And even if Durant comes here it means we took a bad risk and it paid off, it doesn't make it a good decision with liberal doses of revisionist history. Now bad decisions do pay off from time to time, there is a thing called luck. So we can hope to get lucky.

Jees so many of these Durant posts. If he comes here he comes here--if not there are 15 different avenues.

meloshouldgo wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I am not averse to to taking risks and if Durant ever had any intention of coming here I think this is about as good a team as we could have reasonably hoped to put together to woo him. IMO the risk in this case was not worth taking given our last all out clusterphuck attempt for LeBron. And even if Durant comes here it means we took a bad risk and it paid off, it doesn't make it a good decision with liberal doses of revisionist history. Now bad decisions do pay off from time to time, there is a thing called luck. So we can hope to get lucky.

Jees so many of these Durant posts. If he comes here he comes here--if not there are 15 different avenues.

Did you read this post is the context of the last three posts? If not scroll up and read those. I am very much against playing FA roulette every year/

stick to one post per guy like ... you know ... crabbe ... and barton

EwingsGlass wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:I loved RoLo, but the reasons for Noah NOW after adding Rose is just that it makes perfect sense. People forget that not only Rose but Noah also is an excellent Triangle Big. He was making great plays in the Triangle under Thibs when they ran it. He may not have fresh legs after a long layoff. We will have young bigs behind him as well.

Starphucks always make perfect sense, till they don't. But by then it's usually too late. Rose, Noah and Melo all have injury histories and each is in decline to different extents. I am not comfortable with this sudden switch off philosophy. I definitely liked the slow build up better, and wanted to see Phil start the course on that.

Respectfully, nothing Jax did so far this season has shown me this isn't still a slow rebuild. We can all talk about star free agents. No one came last year and we signed some intermediate players. Decent guys we all like. Now, front court actually is a position of relative strength. On a PER basis, OQuinn is about as effective as RoLo. His stupid mistakes are more polarizing. But much of that may be nerves. They removed long term salary for short term in the first breathe. And they exchanged Big for Small to accommodate a need. Rose is risky, but that's the benefit of the price. They still created value. So, even if this team implodes and we miss all of free agency, we are all back to the baseline of the tank many of us including me suggested. With less long term salary. If it plays out, we have an extremely loyal top 5 point guard.

I like this from a game theory standpoint. It improves our worst case scenario.

When you trade in your best chip for a one year rental that may also turn into a starphuck max contract for a often injure guy with character issues and bad defense can you honestly sit there and say it's a slow rebuild?

Since when was Rolo our best chip? That KP6. Don't let me knock Rolo. Fan favorite. Sideshow Bob lookalike. But his numbers are replaceable. So is his contract.

Rolo was the best (realistic) trade chip. KP and NTC are not realistic trade chips. Anything is possible, but not everything is reasonable.

(Steady decline in Noah games played and production). I like Noah, and I love his energy and competitive spirit. However if he is going to get the same type of annual salary as Dwight and Whiteside, I can not support signing him.

Howard is 30 years old
Last 3 years.
71 games. 13.7 ppg. 19.0 PER .138 win shares/48
43 games. 15.8 ppg 19.0 PER .140 win shares/48
71 games. 18.3 ppg 21.2 PER .161 win shares/48

Howard is declining but his win shares and PER the last two years remain consistent. With Porzingis able to play some 5, us likely signing Hernangomez and also having O'Quinn, no reason we should expect him to play more 28 minutes a game. Unlike in Houston, Dwight has no pressure to be the 2nd best player. He can be our 3rd or 4th best player, focused on staying fresh for the playoffs, focused on running up the court fast, setting hard screens, holding strong post position, establishing a good defensive mindset. He is still one of the most reliable players in the league to throw the ball into if open inside. With KP, Rose and Melo, having a big guy inside that can set those hard picks and finish inside will make defenses work very hard as to how they want to defend them.

Whiteside is 27 years old and had his best year, has prime athletic years ahead of him. He may mot be as good a player as Noah or Dwight at their best, but he is a good investment based on age and salary demands in this cap structure.

For me it is

1- Whiteside 22$M starting
2- Howard $22M starting (any more salary demand I pass)
3- Noah $14M starting (any more salary I pass)

Gasol at 10-12 Million is perfectly reasonable. Noah starting at 7-8 is my comfort level. Horford on a 4 year / 72 with a player opt in Year 4 is probably the best we can offer. I wouldn't go a cent over that for Al, and would prefer him at 17 tbh, but teams will get desperate and offer him the full max.

nyknickzingis wrote:

home33 wrote:Phil is all about high-character players (minus the jerk superstar). He won't sign Howard. Whiteside can't defend PF's long-term so that's out (KP will def. be a Center soon). Gasol on a 1+1, Noah on a 3-year sweetheart deal, or Horford should and probably will be the only considerations.

Gasol at 10-12 Million is perfectly reasonable. Noah starting at 7-8 is my comfort level. Horford on a 4 year / 72 with a player opt in Year 4 is probably the best we can offer. I wouldn't go a cent over that for Al, and would prefer him at 17 tbh, but teams will get desperate and offer him the full max.

I think reality still has not hit some. There is no way you will get Al Horford for 72$M over 4 years. Al qualifies for nearly a $30 million a year type of deal, and will certainly get something in the 25$M a year range. Atlanta may even max him out. Pau will likely go to a contender if the price is low, otherwise I can not see him sign for less than $15 million per. Noah will get offers in the 20$M a year range. All he has to do is wait for Whiteside. Theres just too many teams with capspace, and these guys are getting big time. Courtney Lee is going to go for $14M a year. Aaron Afflalo opted out of a 8$M a year deal knowing he can likely get 10-12 somewhere. There is going to be spending like neve seen before. A Rose 21$M salary will not look bad at all, neither would Dwight or Whiteside at 22$M.

Yeah, agreed. Anyone talking about Horford for 4yr $72M is stuck in 2010 cap thinking. Even in 2010 Horford would've gotten an Amar'e type offer from a bunch of teams.

We’d still have close to $10M for a SG I believe.I

fishmike wrote:I think you just pay Noah. He's a stop gap until KP and Willy take over the frontcourt. I don't think he's a 1 year deal type of guy. At some point we need to build a team instead of play FA roulette every year as someone quoted.

I am kind of resigned to this

pay him what? $

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think you just pay Noah. He's a stop gap until KP and Willy take over the frontcourt. I don't think he's a 1 year deal type of guy. At some point we need to build a team instead of play FA roulette every year as someone quoted.

I am kind of resigned to this

pay him what? $

I don't know... I really don't. 4/$60mm? I don't know where he is medically either. I just don't have good info to speculate.

That's not a stop gap signing at all. lol. I think the best option for the knicks would be to wait and let the market short itself out then go after Zaza, Moz, or make a trade for a Kufos type back up. I really think the best idea might be to just let KP play center and get a cheap rebounding PG like Thomas Robinson. His offensive game sucks but his rebounding potential is crazy. He is the kind of guy you lock in on a $3-6m with team options and see if you hit the lotto.