newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:For everyone's sake here, i am hoping we can find an effective 2-way center who is between 24-28 years old, no injury concerns, does the dirty work, and is an established starter for under 12 mil per year. I feel like that is the only thing that will make everyone happy. Any player the Knicks sign this summer, and their contract, will be guaranteed to be met with mixed results. The pickiness around here is unrealistic.

We have a bunch of guys here who keep acting like we have a chance to sign Durant, of course they're going to be disappointed with reality.

I think anyone that's been saying they think we have a chance knows in reality that that chance isn't very big and they're more hoping then anything.

The report is out that the Knicks are not on Durant's initial meeting list and people here are still acting like he will have a change of heart. He's only meeting with 60 win teams. He has some 50 win teams on his maybe list. He doesn't even fit next to Melo. It makes zero sense to even consider him. I hope at least the Knicks front office realizes this.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:For everyone's sake here, i am hoping we can find an effective 2-way center who is between 24-28 years old, no injury concerns, does the dirty work, and is an established starter for under 12 mil per year. I feel like that is the only thing that will make everyone happy. Any player the Knicks sign this summer, and their contract, will be guaranteed to be met with mixed results. The pickiness around here is unrealistic.

We have a bunch of guys here who keep acting like we have a chance to sign Durant, of course they're going to be disappointed with reality.

I think anyone that's been saying they think we have a chance knows in reality that that chance isn't very big and they're more hoping then anything.

The report is out that the Knicks are not on Durant's initial meeting list and people here are still acting like he will have a change of heart. He's only meeting with 60 win teams. He has some 50 win teams on his maybe list. He doesn't even fit next to Melo. It makes zero sense to even consider him. I hope at least the Knicks front office realizes this.

I'm sticking with we don't know if he's going to meet with NY or of he isn't, until he actually starts having meetings.

That way, I won't be wrong.

markvmc wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Many posters here don't seem to understand the impact of the cap escalation over the next two years. Max contracts could be well into the 30's by next off season. At 14 million Rolo performed to his contract. Imagine if his contract was only 8 million per season? That would be the magnitude of value by 2017. The Bulls were smart for several reasons. RoLo's contract will have significant value even if he is a reserve player and Grant on a cheap rookie contract could be an incredible windfall if he even only performs as a solid backup.

The Rose trade was a starphuck for the Knicks that could work if he performs well. But even in that situation, he will be looking for $30 mil per on his next contract.

Don't disagree with your points. But Rose is only signed for 1 year and the Knicks have many holes to full with enough cap space to sign only one impact type player.

At least create two separate accounts if you want to debate with yourself foos!

LOL. I like talking to myself. That post was actually for Knickoftime.

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.

If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.

Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.

Yup - its a textbook Knicks starphuck. Low upside, guaranteed downside, albatross contract to be awarded in the future - How can you not the pull the trigger?

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:For everyone's sake here, i am hoping we can find an effective 2-way center who is between 24-28 years old, no injury concerns, does the dirty work, and is an established starter for under 12 mil per year. I feel like that is the only thing that will make everyone happy. Any player the Knicks sign this summer, and their contract, will be guaranteed to be met with mixed results. The pickiness around here is unrealistic.

We have a bunch of guys here who keep acting like we have a chance to sign Durant, of course they're going to be disappointed with reality.

I think anyone that's been saying they think we have a chance knows in reality that that chance isn't very big and they're more hoping then anything.

The report is out that the Knicks are not on Durant's initial meeting list and people here are still acting like he will have a change of heart. He's only meeting with 60 win teams. He has some 50 win teams on his maybe list. He doesn't even fit next to Melo. It makes zero sense to even consider him. I hope at least the Knicks front office realizes this.

If Phil told Rose that they're planning on going after KD then i would have to think that guys like Phil Jackson and Jeff Hornacek just might have a clue what fits their system. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that those two know more about the game than everyone one here.....just sayin.

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.

If Rose returns to even an above average point guard, he never would be available to us. The trade is a risk, but it's a calculated one and I can live with it. Even if Rose is just out to get a max offer this year, we should benefit.

Because Rose wants the max, right. Trading the best center we have had in a long time with a very reasonable contract, in the hopes of maybe paying a PG who hasnt been a star in this league in 4 years the max, seems like an act of desperation.

Yup - its a textbook Knicks starphuck. Low upside, guaranteed downside, albatross contract to be awarded in the future - How can you not the pull the trigger?

How's the upside low again? And what's the risk again?

I think you meant high upside, low risk.