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Knixkik
Posts: 35758
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
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ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Knixkik wrote:jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Glen Rice or Alex English is pretty spot on. Guys that score alot, but didn't really impact or elevate the guys around him.Here's Melo's all time similarity based on Win Shares:
Thru 13 Years Win Shares (Best to Worst)
Player Sim 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Carmelo Anthony 10.7 9.5 9.4 8.2 7.9 7.9 7.3 6.4 6.2 6.1 5.0 4.9 2.9
Rasheed Wallace 94.9 11.0 9.7 9.3 8.9 8.5 7.6 7.6 7.1 6.4 6.2 6.2 5.0 2.3
A.C. Green 94.0 9.4 9.3 8.8 8.6 7.9 7.7 7.6 6.7 6.1 5.2 4.8 4.4 3.3
Alex English 92.4 10.3 9.8 9.5 8.9 8.3 8.2 8.1 7.6 7.0 6.8 5.3 4.0 1.2
Otis Thorpe 91.5 10.4 9.8 9.0 8.9 8.7 8.5 8.1 7.9 7.6 6.0 5.6 4.0 3.8
Dennis Rodman 91.5 12.6 9.3 8.7 8.7 8.1 7.8 6.8 6.2 6.0 5.8 5.5 2.9 0.8
P.J. Brown 90.8 10.2 8.2 8.1 8.0 7.5 7.5 6.9 6.9 5.3 5.1 4.6 4.4 4.2
Rashard Lewis 90.8 9.8 9.5 8.6 8.4 8.3 8.0 7.8 7.6 6.5 6.5 4.1 3.0 -0.4
Buck Williams 89.8 11.4 9.2 8.9 8.7 8.5 7.9 7.9 7.7 7.6 7.3 6.8 6.1 5.2
Bobby Jones 89.7 11.0 10.2 10.2 9.2 8.9 8.2 8.1 7.7 6.4 6.0 4.8 3.2
Terry Cummings 89.0 10.7 8.8 8.7 8.7 7.7 7.5 7.4 6.5 5.6 5.2 2.0 1.8 0.0Career Win Shares (Best to Worst)
Player Sim 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Carmelo Anthony 10.7 9.5 9.4 8.2 7.9 7.9 7.3 6.4 6.2 6.1 5.0 4.9 2.9
Alex English 92.5 10.3 9.8 9.5 8.9 8.3 8.2 8.1 7.6 7.0 6.8 5.3 5.1 4.0 1.2 0.6
Rasheed Wallace 91.2 11.0 9.7 9.3 8.9 8.5 7.6 7.6 7.1 6.4 6.2 6.2 5.1 5.0 3.6 2.3 0.6
Dennis Rodman 91.2 12.6 9.3 8.7 8.7 8.1 7.8 6.8 6.2 6.0 5.8 5.5 2.9 0.8 0.6
Rashard Lewis 91.2 9.8 9.5 8.6 8.4 8.3 8.0 7.8 7.6 6.5 6.5 4.1 3.0 1.7 1.2 0.3 -0.4
A.C. Green 90.3 9.4 9.3 8.8 8.6 7.9 7.7 7.6 6.7 6.1 5.2 5.0 4.8 4.4 3.3 3.2 1.4
Bobby Jones 89.7 11.0 10.2 10.2 9.2 8.9 8.2 8.1 7.7 6.4 6.0 4.8 3.2
P.J. Brown 89.5 10.2 8.2 8.1 8.0 7.5 7.5 6.9 6.9 5.3 5.1 4.6 4.4 4.2 2.3 0.5
Terry Cummings 89.3 10.7 8.8 8.7 8.7 7.7 7.5 7.4 6.5 5.6 5.2 3.0 2.6 2.6 2.1 2.0 1.8 0.4 0.0
Antawn Jamison 89.1 9.2 9.0 8.5 8.2 8.1 6.8 6.7 6.4 5.8 5.4 4.3 3.1 2.6 2.3 1.4 0.1
Glen Rice 88.6 10.8 10.2 10.0 9.3 9.0 8.3 7.9 6.3 5.7 4.4 3.3 2.2 1.4 0.0 -0.1
Glen Rice is not a good comparison. He won't even make the hall of fame, and was a very good scorer, but not elite. Melo will be voted first ballot HoF. Alex English is closer. Win shares are just one of many advanced metrics to use. So many ways to evaluated and compare players. Wilkins is spot on to me. Melo is going to be a HoF player as soon as he is eligible, and should only be compared to other HoF players. Chucky will now regale us all with stories of HOF players who are also zero-sum chuck-stick douches! Which dk7th will then +1! 
Yeah, i mean it's not an opinion, whether he belongs is always up for debate, but its a fact that he will be inducted, and we know that Chuck loves his facts  Hey Alex English is in the Hall of Fame, but he's not elite in the slightest either. Facts are facts. I agree. As i pointed out before, at least English can be considered a fairer comparison for that reason. Nothing wrong with being compared with English or Glenn Rice. Volume scorer that doesn't do much else. Melo is what he is. He'll be inducted for buckets, that's about it. Melo isn't elite. One dimensional player, not an insult. Lots of HOF players were good at just 1 thing. Not Melo's fault he's not transcendant or a top player in his era, he's just a volume scorer to the very core. Just unfortunate that he's being paid like a transcendant player and hamstringing our basketball team's short term success. He has made more All-NBA teams than English and Rice combined, so that and many other reasons make them less than ideal comparisons. But if you argue that he is a better version of each of those players, i can buy that. As far as volume scorers in league history, he is the best of the best, while being an elite rebounder for a SF. His career stats, All-NBA appearances, success in playoffs (or lack thereof), all-star appearances, etc are almost identical to Wilkins. Best of the best???? Dude only won 1 scoring title at the 1 thing he's good at. He's never made any All NBA first teams so not sure what you're point is about that.
I didn't say All-NBA 1st team. There are 3 All-NBA teams. He has never been one of the best 2 forwards in the league, and those are the ones that make the 1st team. All 3 All-NBA teams are there to recognize the top players at each position and top 15 players in the league. Melo has been recognized as such 6 times, once more than English and Rice combined, which is the point i was making. Uhm, Alex English made All NBA 2nd team when there only were 1st and 2nd teams and Larry freakin' Bird was playing the same position. KD who plays the same position as Lebron James has already made 5 All NBA 1st teams: 2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2013-14 NBA All-NBA (1st) Now we both know already that Melo is not in the zip code as KD and Lebron, so it just shows how wide the talent gap Melo barely making all those 3rd teams is. Alex English actually led the league in total points twice in his career, so at this point in Melo's career you can safely say Melo isn't even on Alex English level. He was able to accomplish this in an era that had Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, and Michael Jordan. He made the 2nd team twice. Again, no one is arguing the gap in between between he and the best players in the league like LeBron and Durant. I am simply arguing that he deserves to be compared to other players who have been recognized with similar achievements in their careers. Comparing him to guys who have had a few good seasons based on some advanced stats is not appropriate. English is close, but i would argue not a fair comparison overall. Wilkins has achieved similar in his career as Melo. English, at his best is comparable to Melo at his best, but we are talking about careers, the full body of work. Same with Bernard King, who may have been better than Melo for a couple of seasons, but only had maybe 5 years of really good basketball. Just examples. Full body of work, Melo still pales in comparison to Alex English. English had several seasons he averaged over 5 assists or better. English also averaged 50% or better field goal percentage for his career. English was also extremely durable, playing the entire 82 game season 6 times in his career. Just a superior ball player overall that scored a ton in an era when there was less emphasis on the 3 ball which would be Anthony's sole advantage.
English and Melo have almost identical career stats in assists. He only had 2 seasons (not several) which he averaged over 5 assists per game, 5.1 and 5.3. Exaggeration does not boast your argument. English didn't begin his dominating play until his late 20s. If Melo continues to have similar seasons to this one for the next 2 or 3 season, English's total body of work will pail in comparison, but for now, we can agree to disagree on it. 1982, 1984, 1987. 3 years Alex English averaged 5 assists or more as a small forward. Melo 0 seasons. At least be accurate in your fact finding. He had 2 seasons in which he averaged OVER 5 assists per game at 5.1 and 5.3. Your words not mine. If you are changing the text, than the facts change. I highlighted your exact words above. Yes, he had 5.0 assists in 1984. So 3 seasons of 5 assists or more. Melo still stuck at never. Fine by me, no argument there. If you keep the facts straight and the arguments consistent, that's fine. The exaggerations (like stating above Melo "barely made all of the 3rd teams" when in fact he made 2 2nd teams) is where i will call you out. Or when you say he is older than he is. Exaggeration does not enhance the quality of the argument. You have a lot of good points about Alex English if you keep it straight forward. Looking over his profile, he was a lot better than i initially thought. |
6/16/2016 11:41 PM