mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

I want to see at least very strong improvement by the end of this season. If they are playing .500 ball and making/taking positive steps, I would be ok with that.

If we have another season of crap and have to make a ton of excuses for our crappy coach and why the triangle is still holding us back then I will not be happy at all.

I also dont want to be a better team short term by doing something really stupid and desperate like giving Conley or Derozen max money.

I would expect the Knicks to be in the .500 range with internal improvements alone. Willy might help. Wroten might help. Grant might step it up like he finished those last couple games. Early might help. Lopez's 2nd half was 12ppg, 9rebs 55% FGs and 2 blocks and he played 82. Porzingis should be better. Melo set a career high in assists but shot very poorly. That can get better. Can KOQ improve his footwork? Do we resign Lance? The Knicks can take good steps forward by just all showing up healthy and picking up on the good they accomplished last year.

I don't have a problem maxing out Derozan or Batum. I would include Conely if he was healthy. I think we have a good core and those 3 players both move the needle and fit needs and are a 4 year good fit. Add one of those 3 with MElo, KP, Lopez you have to be a playoff team. During that stretch you develop KP and start grooming guys who may take a few years but you develop them. In 3-4 years when Conley, Melo and Lopez are older and KP is a star you have some part around him and continuity. Long term thoughts...

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?

Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.

Why do we have to keep pretending that it wasn't a good thing that Phil purged the roster and started over? This last 2 seasons were a necessary part of the process. You take back the losing and you erase KP! This was the right thing for this franchise and has nothing to do with Melo. We are no longer only a win now team. This team is about the future more than just what they did this season or next. We should all be happy about that.

Heading into this past season you said they'd clearly win 45 games and anyone who didn't agree was a hater. Now we're not a win now team anymore? I thought the only issue was the backcourt after you backed off that 45 win prediction?

Lots of people here thought they had talent to win 45 games this past season. I did, too. Why didn't they? Bad coaching that got much worse when the team doubled down on the Triangle by firing Fisher and hiring Rambis.

If you thought that Phil purged the roster and started over, why did you predict 45 wins this season? I thought they'd make the playoffs and I am pretty disappointed with how they didn't. Which was ****ty coaching and sticking to the Triangle even though the Triangle clearly wasn't the best system for this team.

Phil did purge the roster from the one he inherited. He then drafted KP because of that. My belief that the team could win 45 games this year doesn't mean he hadn't rebuilt the roster. That belief was based on a hope that the team would get better as the season progressed. I couldn't predict any of the untimely injuries to Melo, LT and KP in particular that came at a bad time for the team. They were doing well up until that happened and I believe it derailed the progress of the team. I also had hoped for Jerian to adjust much faster than he did this year. I felt that if he could play a meaningful role along with Gallo it could help to propel this team.

The only part of the team that really lived up to my predictions were the bigs. Gallo fell off of his strong start as did AA. Losing LT was a huge hit to the team defense. I felt that at the point where the team was at 20-20 and even at 22-22 they still had a chance to reach our predictions, but as I said Melo missed several games at that time as did LT and then KP. Fish seemed to struggle from that point as well. It was a fragile success and then the schedule also got tougher at that very same time. They needed to be healthy and in sync in order to make it thru that stretch.

You know this wasn't a typical rebuild where you have nothing except a recent top draft pick. That's why we could expect a bit more from the team despite the rebuild. It wasn't about the double down on the Triangle IMO. I'm sure that caused some degree of adjustment but they needed more from certain players and with AA pouting and LT missing games along with KP that played a part as well. It's not as simple as just saying it was the coach.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.

Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.

We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.

The minute Tom Thibs sign up with mini, they instantly gained cred and have already been consider a playoff team. you keep on believing that a coaches impact is minor. when you have the most dominate big man in the game, and the most lethal perimeter player on the planet and you can only make it to the 2nd round, that a utter failure in a major way, which is why he was considered for the head coaching job then.

There is a big difference in semi finals to winning a championship..Rambis is not an avg NBA head Coach, he's well below avg

They need a post player who can pass and shoot a little - Pau Gasol and Al Horford are free agents who would be big upgrades over RoLo (Who I like)
They need a wing or guard who can create his shot, pass and score better than Afflalo - Conley, Batum and DeRozan are free agents and big upgrades. With Conley you can likely start Grant at 2, since he has the size to play that position.

Assuming D-Will and Afflalo opt out, the Knicks have enough money to sign one of the above mentioned players, and get a quality role player at another spot. There's some room to grow here, and that's not counting the huge importance of Porzingis and Grant improving as players.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.

Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.

We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.

well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.

Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.

We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.

well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.

It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.

Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.

My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.

Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.

Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.

rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.

what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.

Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.

Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.

We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.

well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.

It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.

Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.

My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.

Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.

Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.

rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.

what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.

Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.

Come on man, you don't wanna go on record that Regardless of who Phil brings in that Rambis would mess it up and not win games. That would be stupid cuz lots of coaches win based mostly on the talent they have. Let's see what talent Phil will be able add this summer.

I did not say that please reread. I said that he is a tool and if they fail with him as the coach then sh1ts gonna get really ugly for phil.

Yes I will go on record stating the above and will also go on record stating that you will be in full blown defense of whatever happens.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?

Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.

Why do we have to keep pretending that it wasn't a good thing that Phil purged the roster and started over? This last 2 seasons were a necessary part of the process. You take back the losing and you erase KP! This was the right thing for this franchise and has nothing to do with Melo. We are no longer only a win now team. This team is about the future more than just what they did this season or next. We should all be happy about that.

Heading into this past season you said they'd clearly win 45 games and anyone who didn't agree was a hater. Now we're not a win now team anymore? I thought the only issue was the backcourt after you backed off that 45 win prediction?

Lots of people here thought they had talent to win 45 games this past season. I did, too. Why didn't they? Bad coaching that got much worse when the team doubled down on the Triangle by firing Fisher and hiring Rambis.

If you thought that Phil purged the roster and started over, why did you predict 45 wins this season? I thought they'd make the playoffs and I am pretty disappointed with how they didn't. Which was ****ty coaching and sticking to the Triangle even though the Triangle clearly wasn't the best system for this team.

i used win shares to come up with my prediction and i missed by a couple of games. in the thread below i said 32-34 wins but then in other threads i said 34 wins is likely. i include the thread we had here because i believe that using the advanced numbers available anyone should be able to arrive at a reasonable prediction. low to mid-30s was reasonable.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52294

as to the upcoming season, we'll have to see what happens this summer before any expectations can be set, although i do agree sight unseen that a .500 record is a feasible goal.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

Can we see how things develop or do you want to only judge a partially built team? The young players have to develop and Phil has to continue adding talent. By the way Rambis and Phil did a lot together after Tex retired. Rambis came up with the defensive scheme and developed players like Bynum. There's a reason Phil respects Rambis.

just because he respects rambis it doesn't make him a good head coach, phil knows it, and you know it

No one has made any claims Rambis is a good coach but then what does that even mean? How do we quantify the impact of the average NBA head coach? According to everything I could find on it the average NBA coach has very little impact. Most of what a team does is on the players. Only a select few coaches have a measureable impact. Phil and Pop in particular made their players better.

Rambis is probably no worse than most average NBA coaches. Give him the talent and he can win.
When he took over for Del Harris he went 24-13 and lost in the WC Semis in the playoffs. No doubt that was talent driven.

We've had big name coaches here. The big difference now is that there's a synchronicity with our Front Office and Coaches with Rambis. That may work well going forward or it may not but I do understand if Phil feels that is what he wants.

well ... with this logic I can say that if you give phil GOAT superstars he can win too but it has little to do with him.

It's perfectly reasonable logic based in part on research and just living long enough to have seen a boatload of basketball. Average NBA coaches are mostly a product of the players they have. Their impact is negligible.

Phil did take over some already good teams but he made them better. He also had teams that weren't ready made. Statistically Phil is one of the few coaches that you can say actually had a measurable impact on his teams.

My point was more about the average NBA coach for which no statistical evidence shows they have much of any impact. If they have talent, those players for the most part perform as expected based on their career performance under other coaches. No change that can be attributed to the coach.
There are always outliers but on the whole nothing worth talking about.

Just think about all the coaches you've seen over the years and how many of them can you really point to and say they had a measurable impact? Of those men there are an even smaller elite set that we consider great coaches. All coaches need talent to win but some coaches are able to really get the most out of their talent.

Rambis with help from Phil is probably no worse than any other average NBA coach. The talent will be what most dictates how successful he'll be.

rambis sucks no need to make up theories about how that is ok because the coach is mostly a negligible impact.

what coach won who was not considered an excellent coach? Maybe Rudy T but that is rare.

Rambis is a tool and we all know that. If he gets the job and the knicks under perform get ready for the evil media onslaught that of course you will say is undeserved.

Come on man, you don't wanna go on record that Regardless of who Phil brings in that Rambis would mess it up and not win games. That would be stupid cuz lots of coaches win based mostly on the talent they have. Let's see what talent Phil will be able add this summer.

I did not say that please reread. I said that he is a tool and if they fail with him as the coach then sh1ts gonna get really ugly for phil.

Yes I will go on record stating the above and will also go on record stating that you will be in full blown defense of whatever happens.

If Phil is able to get him some talent and they have to buy into the system then Rambis will be just fine and will win games but without talent then of course it will be hard to win and be a playoff team. The talent matters much more than who the head coach is.