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The problem is the Triangle.
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GustavBahler
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2/28/2016  1:39 AM
nixluva wrote:Let's not get it twisted! This is a Triangle Offense Franchise!!! They're training and developing all their players in this system. It's not about just this season! By sticking with this they will have a crop of players who will end up being Masters of this offense. They will get faster and smarter individually and as a group.

It would make no sense to delay the process of developing our players to think the game at a high level. You'll all see eventually what kind of impact this will have. The process is already started but most aren't paying attention to the very technical things our players are doing every game because of the recent losing.

Only one franchise here, its called The New York Knicks. Heathen! Blasphemer!! Booo this man!!!!!! lol.
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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2/28/2016  2:08 PM
Heres a Play that is part of the Triangle where the Pinch Post side is wide open to be attacked by the guard. Jerian and Gallo should kill with this play if they cut as hard as Shved did. The read of Shved's defender turning his head and the speed of his cut is what makes it work.

This is the play that the Knicks have run successfully that most mimics the spread offenses of other teams, but in truth is comes out of the Triangle spacing, but since the big, in this case KP doesn't rush to the post but instead sets a Drag screen it's actually a bit different from how other teams run it.

Here it is again with RoLo as the screener and the same Triangle spacing of the other players behind the 3pt line. The only change is that RoLo came out to set the screen as opposed to filling the Side Triangle Post spot.

This one has Melo occupying the Low Post spot as opposed to being out behind the 3pt line. It's just another variation of the 12 prescribed spots to fill that Tex prescribed for the offense.

Here's another one where KP originally was in the post and Grant called him out for a screen. This will make it a bit clearer that they are running these screens out of the Triangle Offense.
nyknickzingis
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2/28/2016  6:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2016  6:08 PM
Triangle is just good basic offense.
The main benefit is that it forces a team to play "connected" and to think as one unit vs playing individually. The teams with a high level of talent who get it within that offense wind up playing championship ball. But you need the talent to begin with. We're about 1 or 2 high level players away from being talented enough to even think of comparing with teams like Toronto/Cleveland. Lets not even talk about Golden State, OKC or San Antonio.
crzymdups
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2/28/2016  7:47 PM
Sorry, I think an offensive philosophy that compares Steph Curry to Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf is broken in some way.

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crzymdups
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2/28/2016  8:16 PM
Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.
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nyknickzingis
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2/28/2016  8:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2016  8:48 PM
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.
nixluva
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2/28/2016  8:49 PM
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

When you consider that Miami is a good defensive team and that the Knicks execution and individual offensive talent is not good, that explains the way they look tonight. It's the talent more than the offense.
nixluva
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2/28/2016  8:50 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
crzymdups
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2/28/2016  9:07 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

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crzymdups
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2/28/2016  9:09 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

When you consider that Miami is a good defensive team and that the Knicks execution and individual offensive talent is not good, that explains the way they look tonight. It's the talent more than the offense.

Bullcrap.

Why'd they paste Miami last time they played them then?

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nixluva
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2/28/2016  9:09 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.
crzymdups
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2/28/2016  9:10 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.

Did you watch the game?

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nixluva
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2/28/2016  9:13 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.

Did you watch the game?


Yes I did. They have better players than we do, regardless of the offense they run.
crzymdups
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2/28/2016  9:14 PM
I don't see how anyone who likes or appreciates NBA basketball can say that the Knicks offense looks even remotely passable.

It ain't the talent. It's the offense. Which is terrible.

Teams running the Triangle that didn't have Jordan/Pipper or Kobe/Shaq/Gasol have like a .250 winning percentage all time.

And that was before the league rules changed to favor PG play even more than ever before and every team started shooting 40 3s a game.

I think system basketball is stupid, especially if it limits the kind of talent you go after. Especially if it limits the kind of coaches you go after.

The Knicks should bring home Thibs. One reason they won't? The Triangle.

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Cartman718
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2/28/2016  9:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2016  9:58 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.

Did you watch the game?


Yes I did. They have better players than we do, regardless of the offense they run.

your homerism is laughable at times and there are times like this when you just talk out of your azs...
this is with fisher's suspect coaching... http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400828412
apparently we forgot how to play defense? rambis is not a head coach by any means.
we are hearing "lets go heat" at the garden?? when was the last time that happened?

so either Phil Jackson failed as an exec who signed FAs that can't deliver in the triangle offense, or...he failed as an exec that hired Fisher and Rambis as incapable motivators / XsOs guys

you don't think this team's failure is on Phil Jackson?
you can't talk about personnel issues who are incapable of executing triangle when this is the team that YOU put together as Prez.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
mreinman
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2/28/2016  9:59 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.

Did you watch the game?


Yes I did. They have better players than we do, regardless of the offense they run.

your homerism is laughable at times and there are times like this when you just talk out of your azs...
this is with fisher's suspect coaching... http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400828412
apparently we forgot how to play defense? rambis is not a head coach by any means.
we are hearing "lets go heat" at the garden?? when was the last time that happened?

so either Phil Jackson failed as an exec who signed FAs that can't deliver in the triangle offense, or...he failed as an exec that hired Fisher and Rambis as incapable motivators / XsOs guys

you don't think this team's failure is on Phil Jackson?
you can't talk about personnel issues who are incapable of executing triangle when this is the team that YOU put together as Prez.

pretty much

so here is what phil is thinking ....
crzymdups
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2/28/2016  10:00 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Look at the Knicks against Miami - they have the talent to compete with Miami. Their offensive sets get them no easy baskets.

Miami is one of the best defensive teams in the league, but this is about shooting. The Knicks have gotten looks. One, Melo and Kristaps are off with their shot. Two, their 3rd option is out with Afflalo. That basically means our top 3 shot creators/makers were missing in action in that half.

Melo's 4-12 and KP is 1-6. That's a combined 5-18. That's just them not making their shots at a clip they should be. With Melo that is quite normal you ought to get used to it, it's been like that all season. With KP he's a rookie who has up and down halves with his play on offense. Can go 1-6 in one half and then 4-5 the next. A more standard shooting would be 8-18 from Melo/KP. If they make 3 more shots in that half, it's a Knick lead.

The Knicks have gotten terrible looks. Mostly contested mid-range shots. Most of their made baskets came off broken plays or Miami turnovers.

Their defense and effort has been good. Their halfcourt offense has been atrocious.

Watch a tape of that GSW / OKC game last night. That's what good offense looks like.

I'm pretty sure that if we had that kind of talent, we'd look pretty good too. Knicks have to execute better. It's not because the offense isn't any good.

Did you watch the game?


Yes I did. They have better players than we do, regardless of the offense they run.

your homerism is laughable at times and there are times like this when you just talk out of your azs...
this is with fisher's suspect coaching... http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400828412
apparently we forgot how to play defense? rambis is not a head coach by any means.
we are hearing "lets go heat" at the garden?? when was the last time that happened?

so either Phil Jackson failed as an exec who signed FAs that can't deliver in the triangle offense, or...he failed as an exec that hired Fisher and Rambis as incapable motivators / XsOs guys

you don't think this team's failure is on Phil Jackson?
you can't talk about personnel issues who are incapable of executing triangle when this is the team that YOU put together as Prez.

+100000000

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crzymdups
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2/28/2016  10:20 PM
¿ △ ?
franco12
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2/29/2016  7:34 AM
crzymdups wrote:I don't see how anyone who likes or appreciates NBA basketball can say that the Knicks offense looks even remotely passable.

It ain't the talent. It's the offense. Which is terrible.

Teams running the Triangle that didn't have Jordan/Pipper or Kobe/Shaq/Gasol have like a .250 winning percentage all time.

And that was before the league rules changed to favor PG play even more than ever before and every team started shooting 40 3s a game.

I think system basketball is stupid, especially if it limits the kind of talent you go after. Especially if it limits the kind of coaches you go after.

The Knicks should bring home Thibs. One reason they won't? The Triangle.

I am starting to believe this triangle is just a bad fit (for any modern era team without unique, high IQ talents).

I disagree with your comment about system- because I think MDA would be awesome right now- but the later part about system limiting what you do and who you go after is 100% true. Whatever system you have needs to maximize individual & team talent.

Right now, I think players have had a brain spasm and are lost. Earlier in the year, I think they had a better grasp on things, and that's lost.

We're starting to resemble last years team too much.
nyknickzingis
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2/29/2016  7:47 AM
Knicks should go hard after Luke Walton in the summer as well as a PG like Conley.
We can talk about this thread again, then.
A younger smart head coach who knows the Triangle but will also install some of the offense Golden State runs.
A point guard that can actually take the pressure of Melo as the primary ballhandler or ball monopolizer. A PG that can make the team less reliant on the Triangle for offense creativity.

Knicks 2 main targets this summer should be going all out in free agency for Mike Conley and next to try and get Luke to NY.
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