knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Jim Dolan has done the same thing with Carmelo as he did with isiah. He made a terrible trade that hamstrung the team twice once with the original and second with bargain. Now his idiot move to give a ntc has stuck is in the mid with him He could've left for clev and we would've had multi assets to improve which is what we needed to do. So were stuck with him and will be forced. By him to over pay for a pro pg either through free agency or trade and it still Wong be near enough

Assets??? your going to give a player a max contract and then trade him a yr later (if he didn't have the NTC)how assinine would that look.

You act as if Melo is a overrated, or a bad influence..relax brigg

Its not that he makes no sense with the direction of the franchise. We need to surround Porzingis with a high draft pick young core

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

If he were to sign for less then max then he would just sign with the Bulls.

If we let Melo walk, and have no draft pick in 2016. How do we acquire these high level lotto picks? We could probably eat a bad contract for a mid round pick or late lotto possibly. That's about it.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

If he were to sign for less then max then he would just sign with the Bulls.

If we let Melo walk, and have no draft pick in 2016. How do we acquire these high level lotto picks? We could probably eat a bad contract for a mid round pick or late lotto possibly. That's about it.

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

Jmpasq wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

If he were to sign for less then max then he would just sign with the Bulls.

If we let Melo walk, and have no draft pick in 2016. How do we acquire these high level lotto picks? We could probably eat a bad contract for a mid round pick or late lotto possibly. That's about it.

Im not sure he would of signed with the Bulls with equal deals on the table. He would let us trade him now if that was the case

If Phil told Carmelo that he would only sign him for a certain price. Then Melo would sign with the Bulls. There was nothing for us to offer Carmelo at the time that made us more appealing then the Bulls or Houston other then a ton of money.

If Carmelo ends up being hobbled down the road then we get Lotto picks as consolation prizes going forward minus this yr. Or he actually maintains enough health to actual build a good team with him and KP.

If we let Melo walk for nothing then that Brooklyn pick wouldn't even be a possibility. But it is due to us resigning Melo.

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

actually its everything right with the NTC. The players value is capped. Guys like Melo sacrfice money so the NBA's middle class can get paid. So the NTC at least gives the player some control over his career once they sign. Its funny.. money makes it all better right? Imagine your company tells you that you need to move to Clev or Phili because they pay you well and suck it up. Its for the best of the company. Sorry those cities suck to live and you need to move your family. These guys are humans and deserve to make the money they can earn and live where they want to live. If you have earned the right for more control than you have earned the right to exercise that control.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

NTC will be dual-edge sword. Using is owners will able to negotiate the players contract length and salaries down.
The players protection should be handles using insurance policy not player contracts.
Why fans need to pay with watching crappy product because of some unfortunate player health or personal issues?

America is the country of opportunity but it always was a country of accountability.
Not much later and that's why we as a country start sucking.
Everyone wants entitlements but no one want to be accountable for laziness and selfishness.
Time to stop handing free lunches for those who can use their hands and brains to earn it.
Time to stop the corruption of the minds of American people.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

actually its everything right with the NTC. The players value is capped. Guys like Melo sacrfice money so the NBA's middle class can get paid. So the NTC at least gives the player some control over his career once they sign. Its funny.. money makes it all better right? Imagine your company tells you that you need to move to Clev or Phili because they pay you well and suck it up. Its for the best of the company. Sorry those cities suck to live and you need to move your family. These guys are humans and deserve to make the money they can earn and live where they want to live. If you have earned the right for more control than you have earned the right to exercise that control.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

Thank you. I get tired of dealing with the moral panic and outrage about Melo asking for what any one of us would ask for in the same situation.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

actually its everything right with the NTC. The players value is capped. Guys like Melo sacrfice money so the NBA's middle class can get paid. So the NTC at least gives the player some control over his career once they sign. Its funny.. money makes it all better right? Imagine your company tells you that you need to move to Clev or Phili because they pay you well and suck it up. Its for the best of the company. Sorry those cities suck to live and you need to move your family. These guys are humans and deserve to make the money they can earn and live where they want to live. If you have earned the right for more control than you have earned the right to exercise that control.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

Thank you. I get tired of dealing with the moral panic and outrage about Melo asking for what any one of us would ask for in the same situation.

its so old. You inject logic and actual real-world thinking and the gremlins around here call you a Melo lover. Trade him, keep him, I am fine either way. This site (and all fan sites I am sure) are littered with statements that they would never apply to themselves. Its nothing more than the culture of blame. Something isnt working, lets figure out who's fault it is.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

actually its everything right with the NTC. The players value is capped. Guys like Melo sacrfice money so the NBA's middle class can get paid. So the NTC at least gives the player some control over his career once they sign. Its funny.. money makes it all better right? Imagine your company tells you that you need to move to Clev or Phili because they pay you well and suck it up. Its for the best of the company. Sorry those cities suck to live and you need to move your family. These guys are humans and deserve to make the money they can earn and live where they want to live. If you have earned the right for more control than you have earned the right to exercise that control.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

Thank you. I get tired of dealing with the moral panic and outrage about Melo asking for what any one of us would ask for in the same situation.

its so old. You inject logic and actual real-world thinking and the gremlins around here call you a Melo lover. Trade him, keep him, I am fine either way. This site (and all fan sites I am sure) are littered with statements that they would never apply to themselves. Its nothing more than the culture of blame. Something isnt working, lets figure out who's fault it is.

Yep. Nothing more than "e-Heroes" set to make the world right by compartmentalizing all problems into one point of blame and one simple, unrealistic solution. Makes one's world nice and comfortable when you're not required to think too deeply beyond one step problem solving.

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness

You could offer him 4 yrs, 96 mil with a no trade clause or 5/124 without it. Both beat any offer other teams can make. If he'd rather take an inferior offer elsewhere, then he doesn't want to be here. We've been a bad lottery team with him anyway since the signing (40 wins, 97 losses) - so I don't care if he signed elsewhere. To be clear, I would have traded him well before he became an FA but that's ancient history.

No one will give him NTC nut MSG.
NTC is something Melo want to fight for on behalf of the players.
This in his mind is his future legacy as players representative.
Unfortunately to players and fortunately for the game of basketball he himself is an example of everything wrong with NTC.

actually its everything right with the NTC. The players value is capped. Guys like Melo sacrfice money so the NBA's middle class can get paid. So the NTC at least gives the player some control over his career once they sign. Its funny.. money makes it all better right? Imagine your company tells you that you need to move to Clev or Phili because they pay you well and suck it up. Its for the best of the company. Sorry those cities suck to live and you need to move your family. These guys are humans and deserve to make the money they can earn and live where they want to live. If you have earned the right for more control than you have earned the right to exercise that control.

Knicks traded an unprotected pick for Bargs. Knicks are probably in the lottery this year and imagine they win and miss on Ben Simmons. Thats Knick's front office management. However somehow this responsibility is on Melo to "do the right thing" and let the Knicks trade him so they can restock the cupboard after years of poor management while this player carried the load night after night. That strikes you as fair? Reasonable? But its sports and Melo isnt winning here and its OUR team so he should "do the right thing" or face the venom of fans.

I find that thinking incredibly narrow minded, selfish, and having no basis in reality. Might even call it un-American.

NTC will be dual-edge sword. Using is owners will able to negotiate the players contract length and salaries down.
The players protection should be handles using insurance policy not player contracts.
Why fans need to pay with watching crappy product because of some unfortunate player health or personal issues?

America is the country of opportunity but it always was a country of accountability.
Not much later and that's why we as a country start sucking.
Everyone wants entitlements but no one want to be accountable for laziness and selfishness.
Time to stop handing free lunches for those who can use their hands and brains to earn it.
Time to stop the corruption of the minds of American people.

America is NOT a land of accountability. I love my country but it's government and economy are run by people without any accountability, only blame. Do you know why we are trillions in debt, why banks were bailed out at the same time their execs were making millions and even the ones that lost jobs had massive golden parachutes? Do you know why none of those execs has been held accountable? Because the politicians made the laws that facilitated all of it. You go after execs you go after the law makers that made it possible. You know... the ones who need millions in campaign funds (where do those come from again?) to get elected. This is why not a single politician has attacked rich and powerful for lack of accountability, they are floating the bill. The closest we can get are liberals who threaten higher taxes on the wealthy.

Easy to say "this isnt working" with Melo and suggest we need to move on. What I find laughable are the folks that suggest this is his duty. Maybe some of those folks can outline the great success the Knicks had in the 7-8 year before Melo got here? Does that period have relevance in the discussion? Why would any great player come play for an organization with a history of terrible management when they know THEY will be blamed if the ship sinks?

Melo WANTS to be here. He's one of the more respected players around the league. Kick him to the curb and just watch the elite talent lining up to come here. Phil's promise was to change the culture for the players, so guys want to come here.