martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:As complicated as it would be, NY should try to get Toronto involved in this. Make them ante up some how; moving Melo only means the pick they have of ours goes from mediocre to something very worthwhile.

I often thought about that angle as to giving us incentive to tank.

I remember last year Love visiting fenway park and hanging with Rondo sparking rumors about Loves pending free agency and the Celtics. Love still a 20 and 10 guy, still young? Handsome kid and very marketable.

Problem is Melo don't play ball if he don't want to be there.

Miami seems logical. But I don't have a source for this.

Miami only seems logical to me from Lala's perspective, no one else's.

I still say the Clippers and CP3 is the only move that would REALLY tempt Melo. Play with CP3, be in LA for he and Lala. They'd have a puncher's chance at beating the Warriors.

Is putting Melo on the Cavs really going to beat the Warriors? And he'd be in Cleveland.

Miami is an also ran, basketball wise. Wade is on his list leg, Bosh is not a difference maker.

Melo on Cavs puts them in the finals and that's all you can ask for. Green can only guard one of LeBron, Melo.

That maybe true but they also have Iggy and Barnes to take turns on Melo and Barnes. Also, with the way Cleveland play how will Melo get his post touches? He needs more touches from there than Love.

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

wargames wrote:

VCoug wrote:

dacash wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Melo and either Lance or Lou to Cleveland

Love to Boston

Knicks get David Lee (huge expiring), Mozgov (expiring),Marcus Smart, a #1 pick from Boston and a second rounder from Cleveland.

That works for me!

Yep! This trade makes a ton of sense. I wonder if we'd be able to flip Mozgov or Lee to another team that needs front court help.

if mozgov is the back up we can trade seraphin and/or koq for back court help or more second round pick

We'd get a better return if we traded Mozgov and he's a free agent this Summer. I would imagine he'll be more interested in signing somewhere he can start.

The Celtics were going to trade 4 1st rounders to move up for Frank Kaminsky. It's gonna be at least 3 for this, probably 5 considering their getting a star and shedding Lee...

I'm looking at the picks Boston and Cleveland have available to trade :http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

I think at a minimum here's what I'm asking for. Here's what I'm asking for from Boston: Brooklyn's 2016 1st, Minnesota's protected 2016 1st (will end up being two 2nds), and either Dallas' 2016 1st, one of the other two Brooklyn 1st, or Memphis' protected 2018 1st. From Cleveland I want to get the 2019 2nd that either LA or MN owes them and a future 1st. Don't really care about any players coming back to us other than Smart or Crowder but I'd sacrifice them for more 1st rounders and I'm including whatever other players Cleveland or Boston want other than KP obviously. Would prefer to keep Jerian Grant even though he hasn't shown much of anything.

I'm right there with your thinking about the picks but highly doubt the Celtics would give up pivotal players in their rotation, other than Jared Sullinger. Why would they want to tamper with the group that produced the 3rd best record in the East and the 6th best record in the league since they got Isiah Thomas? I suspect that whatever contracts we get in return would be attached to David Lee and recent players they drafted/acquired who are on the periphery i.e. Terry Rozier, RJ Hunter, James Young, Tyler Zeller, Jordan Mickey, with Kelly Olynk being included in a seperate deal for a rim protector. With the number of picks they have, they can more than supplement value that those contracts do no offer.

I also highly doubt that Timofey is included in the deal to us. The Cavs and Celtics both need rim protectors, which Mozgov offers whereas we already have ours in Lopez....who I wouldn't be surprised to see included in the deal.

But I'd be totally on board for this deal though I doubt Melo agrees to go to Cleveland, even with LeBron.

You can think the celts are in a position of strength or you can flip it around and question that

They already have a full roster. Eg rozier last years #1 has barely played. Smart is coming off the bench. What are they going to do w all of those picks? This isn't the Nfl. If they don't trade them for players or future picks they're screwed.

It's a matter of playing this hand right. This will be important for Phil to get right

Fair and interesting point. I definitely think those other assets are going to be in play for Al Horford, though. That'd make things pretty competitive for us in a trade.

martin wrote:As complicated as it would be, NY should try to get Toronto involved in this. Make them ante up some how; moving Melo only means the pick they have of ours goes from mediocre to something very worthwhile.

Exactly! Been saying the same thing for a while. I wonder if they'd even give up their pick to help us blow it up.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:As complicated as it would be, NY should try to get Toronto involved in this. Make them ante up some how; moving Melo only means the pick they have of ours goes from mediocre to something very worthwhile.

I often thought about that angle as to giving us incentive to tank.

I remember last year Love visiting fenway park and hanging with Rondo sparking rumors about Loves pending free agency and the Celtics. Love still a 20 and 10 guy, still young? Handsome kid and very marketable.

Problem is Melo don't play ball if he don't want to be there.

Miami seems logical. But I don't have a source for this.

Miami only seems logical to me from Lala's perspective, no one else's.

I still say the Clippers and CP3 is the only move that would REALLY tempt Melo. Play with CP3, be in LA for he and Lala. They'd have a puncher's chance at beating the Warriors.

Is putting Melo on the Cavs really going to beat the Warriors? And he'd be in Cleveland.

Miami is an also ran, basketball wise. Wade is on his list leg, Bosh is not a difference maker.

Melo on Cavs puts them in the finals and that's all you can ask for. Green can only guard one of LeBron, Melo.

what about on the other end..Everyone on GS contributes and Knows there roll. Are you telling me relying on JR and shump in the playoffs is a good thing

All I'm telling you is that Melo + LBJ + Kyrie + the rest gets them to the finals, injuries aside. The rest is a crapshot. Anyone can get hot. GS are HOT HOT right now.

Yeah but they're getting to the finals without Melo. Unless you think Toronto will somehow knock them out?? Boston is gonna make a move to get a big name whether it's K.Love or someone else so if they get the right guy they could be dangerous cause they already have a really good young team that plays good defense.

dk7th wrote:

anrst wrote:WTF DOES MELO WANT TO STAY FOR?

in the aftermath of his supermax contract signing he said the mist important thing was not moving his kids and keeping close tabs on his business interests/branding.

if he were to waive his no-trade clause, after having signed a max deal with a trade kicker, it would be a very bad look and will certainly destroy whatever legacy he might have had here in new york, even as a sixth man in the twilight seasons of his career.

the only logical way forward for him is to stay in new york but be limited to 24-27 minutes a game, with those minutes diminishing over time... except come playoff time, if it comes to that.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I see something like this plus 4 first round picks from Boston to us, happening.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h8rvoes

Ummmmmmmmm no thanks. That's a horrible trade and taking on 3 years of Varajo......no thanks again.

So a top 3 lottery pick in a draft featuring Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram, 3 additional 1st rounders as well as the players included in ESPN trade machine, constitutes "a horrible trade"? What exactly do you think we can get for Melo? Just curious because I felt that was a reach on my part.

I didn't see the part that we were getting all of those picks so that changes things but i still wouldn't want all of those players but that sure is a lot of picks that could surely help our rebuild whether we used the picks or traded them for players.

I doubt we get that many picks back and don't think that that'd be an issue. I like quality over quantity and would make Brooklyn's pick a red line in negotiations; no pick, no deal. Everything else is just static. I do think we can wrangle two more picks from them (one of which would be their pick this year, which would be inconsequential) and a future pick that belongs to them but that'd be it.

And you really have an issue with Terry Rozier ane James Young. The former was good enough to be a mod-tier first round and possesses many of the same skills that made Jerian Grant intriguing to us. The latter was considered to be a lottery talent in his own right during his draft and yet that doesn't mildly peak your interest?

anrst wrote:Melo wants to stay bc he wants his kid to stay in NY schools and wants the knicks fanbase not to hate him?

nah. he's gonna waive that clause. count on it.

there are consequences to that decision that he has to weigh, mostly about his legacy as a knick and his reputation as a straight shooter. and dismissing such a decision as "just business" will cement him forever as an underachieving, greedy and selfish, hypocrite. sure he'll cry all the way to the bank and i am sure that will please some of his fans no end, but then if it does please those fans, what does it say about THEIR character?

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

anrst wrote:WTF DOES MELO WANT TO STAY FOR?

in the aftermath of his supermax contract signing he said the mist important thing was not moving his kids and keeping close tabs on his business interests/branding.

if he were to waive his no-trade clause, after having signed a max deal with a trade kicker, it would be a very bad look and will certainly destroy whatever legacy he might have had here in new york, even as a sixth man in the twilight seasons of his career.

the only logical way forward for him is to stay in new york but be limited to 24-27 minutes a game, with those minutes diminishing over time... except come playoff time, if it comes to that.

When are you predicting that his minutes go down? Right now the Knicks can't win unless he plays a ton of minutes. Also, if Rambis wants to keep his job he probably needs to play Melo 35 mins a night with the squad he has.

i expect those minutes to be limited right away after the all-star break. the knicks are out of the playoff hunt, and rambis is not under the gun to do anything more than get the knicks back to playing .500 ball going forward, .500 ball always having been their ceiling. "rambis keeping his job by winning" is an unrealistic and frankly silly expectation, unless by "winning" you mean playing .500 ball.

getting them back to .500 ball going forward will put them at 34-35 wins for the season, which is what i expected from this season-- and i was not the only one who predicted just about this number of wins. i believe there were two threads on win predictions, and here is one of them:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52623

some of the predictions were amusingly and hopelessly naive and unrealistic, if not a real hoot. you yourself predicted 44-47 wins. what was your reasoning at the time? you should give it now so you can afford yourself an opportunity to learn something.

again, the last thing rambis should be doing is playing melo over 30 minutes a game. it would be prudent to limit melo to 24-28 minutes a game, as rambis tries to figure out smarter and better rotations-- something he addressed very clearly.

Melo played over 38 minutes in his first game for Rambis. There isn't a big difference between 23-31 and 23-32 is there? The 32nd loss is what is going to change things?
In regards to my prediction, I always try to be optimistic.

sorry but one game does not a trend make. predictions based on optimism are not really predictions. predictions are based on understanding and research. so what was your understanding and research at that time?

dk7th wrote:

anrst wrote:Melo wants to stay bc he wants his kid to stay in NY schools and wants the knicks fanbase not to hate him?

nah. he's gonna waive that clause. count on it.

there are consequences to that decision that he has to weigh, mostly about his legacy as a knick and his reputation as a straight shooter. and dismissing such a decision as "just business" will cement him forever as an underachieving, greedy and selfish, hypocrite. sure he'll cry all the way to the bank and i am sure that will please some of his fans no end, but then if it does please those fans, what does it say about THEIR character?

IMO if he waived his no trade clause and the Knicks got picks back. The NY fan base wouldn't hate him at all. The fact that he showed the willingness to buy in took all the heat off of him. Not like he got traded due to bad blood with the team or org. Just would be a move that made sense for both sides. He would be leaving the Knicks with KP cap space and multiple draft picks.