fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TPercy wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Why would Harden's play being criticized by teammates surprise anyone?

Depends on which season. If it was last season I would find it quite suprising that the guy who practically single handedly led his team to the Western Conference Finals where they would eventually lose to the NBA Champs...Their teammates would be lucky to have a guy like him on their team.

This season we are literally only 11 games in. His defense is suspect and his shot isn't up to scratch but all that will come back to him, and he has accepted responsibility that he has to step up it up a bit. give it twenty more games and we will see who will be criticizing who.

voice of reason not emotional fan talk

The game and a team is about much more than individual metrics.

A team is an entity in itself, and individual success does not necessarily lead to a team unity, cohesion, and optimum team performance.

Some folks are getting away from the old cliche that the whole can be much greater than the sum of its parts. McHale came from a background where this was understood. Not sure that some of the players on Houston understand this.

not sure I get where you are going with this? Who on houston are you referring to? And, who thinks that the game is just about individual metrics?

Melo-haters in general.

who on houston is a melo hater? You should talk to them and set them straight :-)

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:Annnnnnnd a discussion about Kevin McHale being fired so early in the season somehow gets turned into a debate regarding Melo and Kobe, two players who never played for Houston ever. LMAO I love sports forums. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.

Well, there was a large billboard with Anthony wearing Lin's #7 Houston uniform put up during the courting period last year...No?

And Kobe did play with Howard...Right?

Strong enough connections for me.

But what does any of that have to do with McHale being fired from the Rockets? Seriously, if there is a direct connection there, point it out to me. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm trying to figure out how this turned into a debate about Melo and Kobe, when neither of them had anything at all to do with McHale. It's just amazing, to me, how off the rails a conversation thread can go as soon as you mention the name of someone who apparently has nothing much at all to do with the topic at hand!

Seriously...I was being sarcastic.

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:Annnnnnnd a discussion about Kevin McHale being fired so early in the season somehow gets turned into a debate regarding Melo and Kobe, two players who never played for Houston ever. LMAO I love sports forums. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.

Well, there was a large billboard with Anthony wearing Lin's #7 Houston uniform put up during the courting period last year...No?

And Kobe did play with Howard...Right?

Strong enough connections for me.

But what does any of that have to do with McHale being fired from the Rockets? Seriously, if there is a direct connection there, point it out to me. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm trying to figure out how this turned into a debate about Melo and Kobe, when neither of them had anything at all to do with McHale. It's just amazing, to me, how off the rails a conversation thread can go as soon as you mention the name of someone who apparently has nothing much at all to do with the topic at hand!

When the Rockets stole Lin from the Knicks. Then they made the Harden trade months later. It was very convienent for some to **** on the Knicks and Melo by claiming how great the Rockets future was. How they were building a team that was going to take over the west for the next 10 yrs while the Knicks were going to be strictly first round exits and had no future. Same was said for Denver after the Melo trade which we gave them a ton of assets. When they were winning all those regular season games. Denver and Houston were innovative due to metrics and loaded with young talent. They were the future of the NBA ready and next in line to take over for the Spurs and Heat.

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:Annnnnnnd a discussion about Kevin McHale being fired so early in the season somehow gets turned into a debate regarding Melo and Kobe, two players who never played for Houston ever. LMAO I love sports forums. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.

Well, there was a large billboard with Anthony wearing Lin's #7 Houston uniform put up during the courting period last year...No?

And Kobe did play with Howard...Right?

Strong enough connections for me.

But what does any of that have to do with McHale being fired from the Rockets? Seriously, if there is a direct connection there, point it out to me. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm trying to figure out how this turned into a debate about Melo and Kobe, when neither of them had anything at all to do with McHale. It's just amazing, to me, how off the rails a conversation thread can go as soon as you mention the name of someone who apparently has nothing much at all to do with the topic at hand!

When the Rockets stole Lin from the Knicks. Then they made the Harden trade months later. It was very convienent for some to **** on the Knicks and Melo by claiming how great the Rockets future was. How they were building a team that was going to take over the west for the next 10 yrs while the Knicks were going to be strictly first round exits and had no future. Same was said for Denver after the Melo trade which we gave them a ton of assets. When they were winning all those regular season games. Denver and Houston were innovative due to metrics and loaded with young talent. They were the future of the NBA ready and next in line to take over for the Spurs and Heat.

Denver - metrics? Houston has been good. WCF and tough series against GSW - the champs?

No need to knock every other team to make a bad era here better.

I'm explaining why on a Knicks board would McHale being fired would lead to convos about Melo and Kobe. Houston other then the shady stuff with the poison pills have been a very well run org over the yrs. They have put themselves in position to be successfull. I don't even know why it isn't working out for them at the moment. But firing McHale doesn't seem like a good basketball move.

I don't knock the Rockets. I knock the Knicks fans that put every team on team a pedistal in order to knock the Knicks. Rockets also should have lost that series to Clips the round before. But all the credit to them for pulling out of that hole.

CrushAlot wrote:Good article on how poorly Lawson and Harden are fitting together.
http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/11/18/failure-to-launch-searching-for-answers-to-houstons-ty-lawson-problem/

This is a nice article, thanks for posting. I think it would be better if they just have Lawson run the second Unit and bring Beverley back in their, that way neither players effectiveness is hurt.

It kind of makes me Glad that we didn't go after ball dominant guys like LMA and Greg Monroe and question the incentives of trying to get a guy like Durant...

crzymdups wrote:

TPercy wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Good article on how poorly Lawson and Harden are fitting together.
http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/11/18/failure-to-launch-searching-for-answers-to-houstons-ty-lawson-problem/

This is a nice article, thanks for posting. I think it would be better if they just have Lawson run the second Unit and bring Beverley back in their, that way neither players effectiveness is hurt.

It kind of makes me Glad that we didn't go after ball dominant guys like LMA and Greg Monroe and question the incentives of trying to get a guy like Durant...

Yeah, I agree. Knicks finally have a smart team built around Melo. Only other time it felt like we had this was 2012-3 season, but that fell apart when all the vets got injured.

You can only have so many ball dominant players on a team. Knicks have excellent balance right now on that front.

If we add anything to this team next summer, I'd love it to be another unselfish player like Nic Batum or Mike Conley.

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:Annnnnnnd a discussion about Kevin McHale being fired so early in the season somehow gets turned into a debate regarding Melo and Kobe, two players who never played for Houston ever. LMAO I love sports forums. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.

Well, there was a large billboard with Anthony wearing Lin's #7 Houston uniform put up during the courting period last year...No?

And Kobe did play with Howard...Right?

Strong enough connections for me.

But what does any of that have to do with McHale being fired from the Rockets? Seriously, if there is a direct connection there, point it out to me. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm trying to figure out how this turned into a debate about Melo and Kobe, when neither of them had anything at all to do with McHale. It's just amazing, to me, how off the rails a conversation thread can go as soon as you mention the name of someone who apparently has nothing much at all to do with the topic at hand!

When the Rockets stole Lin from the Knicks. Then they made the Harden trade months later. It was very convienent for some to **** on the Knicks and Melo by claiming how great the Rockets future was. How they were building a team that was going to take over the west for the next 10 yrs while the Knicks were going to be strictly first round exits and had no future. Same was said for Denver after the Melo trade which we gave them a ton of assets. When they were winning all those regular season games. Denver and Houston were innovative due to metrics and loaded with young talent. They were the future of the NBA ready and next in line to take over for the Spurs and Heat.

Denver - metrics? Houston has been good. WCF and tough series against GSW - the champs?

No need to knock every other team to make a bad era here better.

You can take a group of players with certain measurables that you like, but that does not mean putting them together on a team translates into a great team, because they simply might not mesh on the court.

I don't think putting a good team together is a science. If you create a fantasy team for a fantasy sports league, they aren't really playing together, even though you might be "winning" in your league. Not saying that you, or anyone thinks like this, but there is always compromise and accommodation when you put good players together on a team, and the winning teams do a better job of this.

I can say this- If I'm a good young player I am not going to a team with Harden and Howard on it unless they are overwhelming me with financial incentives.

These players put their stats and their careers ahead of the team every day. And good coaches get fired because of it. At least Houston was lucky enough to have strong GM who put a decent team around them. But the selfish pricks still managed to run the coach out of town.

This is why most sports fan have started to tune out the NBA. League of phucking overpaid Diva's. They deserve the Kardashians - Harden and Dwight are Kardashian clones. They are better suited for reality TV than for a team game. Phuc 'em both.