nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:You simply can't fully evaluate players by playing them just 5 to 10 minutes. The evaluation process in my opinion should consist of five games at 20 minutes per. After five games if the numbers look bad, then you make the appropriate changes. Numbers= (rebounding,defending, scoring, and assisting). Players take time to warm up, get acclimated, etc. It is not fair to quickly pull a guy off the court after a couple of mistakes. If that were the case, Carmelo would have never gotten the chance to become the player that he is today. He takes and misses a lot of shots; he further is not one to bring it on the defensive end night in night out. I am just saying.

Some players are 5-10 minute players so I would disagree with this. In fact some players are so efficient that they are very effective in limited minutes. Also it's not just what happens in games but what goes on in practice. Coaches spend a LOT of time with their players in practice and get to see more of what each player actually is capable of in terms of their execution of the teams plays on both ends. If a player is missing assignments in practice and then does the same in games he is going to have his minutes cut.

Some players who have a history of success will be given more rope than players who have no history of being successful. That's just the way it is. So Melo, Jose, RoLo, Afflalo etc are the kind of guys that will be given the benefit of the doubt. A guy like DWill is not going to just be given anything. He has to earn it every day. This is just the way things are.

I don't disagree with the approach; I just don't understand why KO is in the doghouse. Yes he missed an assignment here and there, but the dude is an enforcer.

Knicks1969 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:You simply can't fully evaluate players by playing them just 5 to 10 minutes. The evaluation process in my opinion should consist of five games at 20 minutes per. After five games if the numbers look bad, then you make the appropriate changes. Numbers= (rebounding,defending, scoring, and assisting). Players take time to warm up, get acclimated, etc. It is not fair to quickly pull a guy off the court after a couple of mistakes. If that were the case, Carmelo would have never gotten the chance to become the player that he is today. He takes and misses a lot of shots; he further is not one to bring it on the defensive end night in night out. I am just saying.

Some players are 5-10 minute players so I would disagree with this. In fact some players are so efficient that they are very effective in limited minutes. Also it's not just what happens in games but what goes on in practice. Coaches spend a LOT of time with their players in practice and get to see more of what each player actually is capable of in terms of their execution of the teams plays on both ends. If a player is missing assignments in practice and then does the same in games he is going to have his minutes cut.

Some players who have a history of success will be given more rope than players who have no history of being successful. That's just the way it is. So Melo, Jose, RoLo, Afflalo etc are the kind of guys that will be given the benefit of the doubt. A guy like DWill is not going to just be given anything. He has to earn it every day. This is just the way things are.

I don't disagree with the approach; I just don't understand why KO is in the doghouse. Yes he missed an assignment here and there, but the dude is an enforcer.

blkexec wrote:http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/is-seraphins-breakout-game-proof-that-depth-is-being-mismanaged/

Didn't think the author provided anything special. He complains about not giving KOQ enough minutes, same with Rolo, and then mentions that it would be a shame if Seraphin didn't get a chance to follow up his big game with more minutes, while alluding to the fact that KP has gotten consistent minutes while only shooting 36% (arguing for less minutes? just after arguing for more minutes for guys who perhaps need more consistent minutes in the face of errors?).

The Knicks have a ton of bigs. The Knicks only have so many minutes at those positions, even less when you play a team like the Pelicans that have stretch guys at the 4, 5.

So what to do?

Who has a elixir rotation for KP, Rolo, Seraphin, Thomas, KOQ, DWill, Melo, Lou to all get at least 20 minutes at the 3, 4, 5?

Or, mark KP and Melo for 25-35 a night and Rolo for 25 and then what?

Knicks1969 wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:Pardon me if this has been brought up previously in this thread, but Williams had a -12 is 4 minutes in Charlotte.

Are people arguing he should have gotten 20 mins the score be damned?

Fisher would have been burned in effigy for not making the right in-game adjustment.

4 minutes? Is this enough time for one to get in a game and dominate? Specifically, if the player is not a PG. my point about this thread is to simply say that our talents are not being used properly. I do understand all of the other arguments and I respect all of your opinions,but I still believe a player must be given a consistent dose of minutes for a minimum of five games to prove that he is deserving or not. 5games *20 minutes per

you dont mind losing those games? Also, when do you sub out a player? What is magical about 20 minutes for 5 games?

Also, if Serphain came in this past game and started to light it up but it was the 5 game slot for DWill, would you have sat Seraphin? Or not played Seraphin at all?

Also, how patient were you with Jose? Does he get 10 games cause he's a vet or is it still 5?

martin wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:Pardon me if this has been brought up previously in this thread, but Williams had a -12 is 4 minutes in Charlotte.

Are people arguing he should have gotten 20 mins the score be damned?

Fisher would have been burned in effigy for not making the right in-game adjustment.

4 minutes? Is this enough time for one to get in a game and dominate? Specifically, if the player is not a PG. my point about this thread is to simply say that our talents are not being used properly. I do understand all of the other arguments and I respect all of your opinions,but I still believe a player must be given a consistent dose of minutes for a minimum of five games to prove that he is deserving or not. 5games *20 minutes per

you dont mind losing those games? Also, when do you sub out a player? What is magical about 20 minutes for 5 games?

Also, if Serphain came in this past game and started to light it up but it was the 5 game slot for DWill, would you have sat Seraphin? Or not played Seraphin at all?

Also, how patient were you with Jose? Does he get 10 games cause he's a vet or is it still 5?

Martin, Jose was grossly inefficient early on; specifically, the first 8 games. The return of Aflalo has benefitted him nicely. He regained his shooting confidence and I am now happy to have him in the lineup. He has been played off the ball a great deal and he has benefited from that.

I simply think that Fisher pulled the plug way too quickly when it comes to KOQ and Williams. I don't believe they are given ample minutes to prove that they are good fit for the team. KO is by far our BEST passing big. He is also that tough dude we need in NY

Knicks1969 wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:Pardon me if this has been brought up previously in this thread, but Williams had a -12 is 4 minutes in Charlotte.

Are people arguing he should have gotten 20 mins the score be damned?

Fisher would have been burned in effigy for not making the right in-game adjustment.

4 minutes? Is this enough time for one to get in a game and dominate? Specifically, if the player is not a PG. my point about this thread is to simply say that our talents are not being used properly. I do understand all of the other arguments and I respect all of your opinions,but I still believe a player must be given a consistent dose of minutes for a minimum of five games to prove that he is deserving or not. 5games *20 minutes per

You missed the point. Not about Williams dominating. It was about the OTHER team dominating while he was on the floor… and why.

-12 is 4 mins was NO anomaly. Williams earned that on merit.

As to your point, figure out how to give Thomas, Seraphin, Williams, Porzingis, O'Quinn, and Lopez 20 minutes each.

Let's for sake of argument give you 15 mins at the SF position.

That's 111 non-Melo front court minutes.

Assuming for sake of discussion Amundson deserves no mins and the Knicks NEVER go small with three guards/Afflalo at the 3, that's 18.5m a night each, assuming you don't want Porzingis and Lopez to have more by rule and/or you don't want to give guys having hot, good nights more on the fly.

Is that what you're proposing?

TheGame wrote:Fisher has made some mistakes for sure, but the team is playing well and will only get better as the season goes on. We will make the playoffs and then we can see how Fish does in playoff basketball. But it is far too soon to talk about replacing him.

I am not asking to replace the dude; he is owed a boat load of money, Phil needs to have him earn it. He just needs to set the rotation for Fisher and ask of Rambis to play a bigger role with the sub patterns.

bigbasketballs wrote:Since you are doing the criticism, why don't you suggest the rotation.

'EVERYONE should play more and more consistently' is easier said than done.

Show us how it's done.

dont waste your time - he's been asked already by multiple posters and ignores it every time.