JrZyHuStLa wrote:

holfresh wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

holfresh wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

Then you don't understand the definition of a projection.

Why can't he be projected to be something in someone's opinon? A projection is nothing but an estimate of a future situation or an estimate of what may happen.

We're a long way from actually knowing for sure if he DOES become one.

Because you have to have a basis for making that projection...You can't make a projection based of something that you have not seen...

In only 7 games into his rookie season, he is only one of two NBA players currently leading their team in rebounds, blocks and steals. He's also tallied 80 points and 60 rebounds in those first 7 career games. The only other guys to do that are Shaq, Webber, Duncan, Griffin and Lamar Odom. All franchise players (Shaq and Tim beyond franchise player caliber) with the exception of Odom who had a solid NBA career.

He's the first rookie with at least 3 double doubles in his first 7 games since Ewing did it 30 years ago.

He is their 2nd leading scorer at 20 years old despite playing less than 25 minutes per game.

This is what you call a basis.

Webber and Odom are not franchise players...Griffin is probably franchise but has not led his team like a franchise player...Those stat are just numbers, the way you effect the game with defenders on you are what creates that aura of franchise...When you can be a go to guy and the team depends on you for that, is franchise...When people game plan for you then that franchise..When you show you cannot be stopped, that franchise...You have to at least show some of these qualities before you project it...

Now you are just ignoring what I wrote. Point out where I said Odom is a franchise player.

Bottom line, given the small sample size KP has shown thus far, it is not COMPLETELY unrealistic and ridiculous for some people to estimate he may be a franchise caliber player.

No one here is claiming this with a guarantee.

Smile.

I read the sentences together where u reeled off the names then said all franchise players after...Also it's not ridiculous for me to ask what do you base this on, given what I have seen from franchise players in the past...

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:holfresh... if you have a point feel free to make it.

I make my point above...

I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent

I have said many times what makes him a possible franchise talent. If you base it solely on creating shots, and expect him to do that from day 1, i think that is a misguided approach. Many franchise players did not start creating their own shots in their first 7 nba games. He has impacted the game on both ends, and shows the combination of talent and motor that few in the league possess. That's how to base a franchise talent, not whether or not they can create their own shots from day 1.

Outside of the long range soft touch, you just described AK47..Far from a franchise player...

Outside of the long range soft touch? yeah ...

aside from me being short I'm tall

He is shooting 23% from the tree...

and your point?

He isn't Steph Curry from the three..

Does he have to be the best shooter of all time to be considered a good shooter?

No but he has to be better than 23%...

See Dirk's rookie stats please.

But isn't that my entire point...You are projecting him off things you haven't seen...

I will post this for the third time, hopefully you see it.

Porzingis is athletic, 7'3, good motor, confidence, soft touch, good instincts, good coordination, tough, nose for the ball, a very unique athletic. And he is producing on both ends as a 20 year old. Putting up great numbers based on his minutes. You can project based on that.

Those are the things we have seen, what a projection is based on. No one is expecting a complete player right away.

I saw it and I said AK47 had the same qualities as a rookie...He even shot 25%n from the three...

AK is not 7'3. If Porzingis was 6'9, we would not be saying the same things about him. If i was 6'8 instead of 6'0, i would be a different player too.

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:holfresh... if you have a point feel free to make it.

I make my point above...

I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent

I have said many times what makes him a possible franchise talent. If you base it solely on creating shots, and expect him to do that from day 1, i think that is a misguided approach. Many franchise players did not start creating their own shots in their first 7 nba games. He has impacted the game on both ends, and shows the combination of talent and motor that few in the league possess. That's how to base a franchise talent, not whether or not they can create their own shots from day 1.

Outside of the long range soft touch, you just described AK47..Far from a franchise player...

Outside of the long range soft touch? yeah ...

aside from me being short I'm tall

He is shooting 23% from the tree...

and your point?

He isn't Steph Curry from the three..

Does he have to be the best shooter of all time to be considered a good shooter?

No but he has to be better than 23%...

See Dirk's rookie stats please.

But isn't that my entire point...You are projecting him off things you haven't seen...

I will post this for the third time, hopefully you see it.

Porzingis is athletic, 7'3, good motor, confidence, soft touch, good instincts, good coordination, tough, nose for the ball, a very unique athletic. And he is producing on both ends as a 20 year old. Putting up great numbers based on his minutes. You can project based on that.

Those are the things we have seen, what a projection is based on. No one is expecting a complete player right away.

I saw it and I said AK47 had the same qualities as a rookie...He even shot 25%n from the three...

AK is not 7'3. If Porzingis was 6'9, we would not be saying the same things about him. If i was 6'8 instead of 6'0, i would be a different player too.

How has Porzingis used that 7'3" frame other than put backs and defending the rim...Porzingis is trying to play like Melo...He is doing Melo's moves..I saw a fade away base line turn around jumper, I saw him double pump twice going for a lay up...I saw him trying to take Jabari Parker off the dribble from the three point line, which won't happen in the NBA...In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect...

You just mentioned 2 ways he is using his 7'3 frame, one on each end of the court. If you are looking for a very complete player 7 games into his career, you won't have many in NBA history to chose from. In addition, you said he wasn't creating his own shot, yet you just explained how he is. You are answering every one of your questions without realizing it.

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:holfresh... if you have a point feel free to make it.

I make my point above...

I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent

I have said many times what makes him a possible franchise talent. If you base it solely on creating shots, and expect him to do that from day 1, i think that is a misguided approach. Many franchise players did not start creating their own shots in their first 7 nba games. He has impacted the game on both ends, and shows the combination of talent and motor that few in the league possess. That's how to base a franchise talent, not whether or not they can create their own shots from day 1.

Outside of the long range soft touch, you just described AK47..Far from a franchise player...

Outside of the long range soft touch? yeah ...

aside from me being short I'm tall

He is shooting 23% from the tree...

and your point?

He isn't Steph Curry from the three..

Does he have to be the best shooter of all time to be considered a good shooter?

No but he has to be better than 23%...

See Dirk's rookie stats please.

But isn't that my entire point...You are projecting him off things you haven't seen...

I will post this for the third time, hopefully you see it.

Porzingis is athletic, 7'3, good motor, confidence, soft touch, good instincts, good coordination, tough, nose for the ball, a very unique athletic. And he is producing on both ends as a 20 year old. Putting up great numbers based on his minutes. You can project based on that.

Those are the things we have seen, what a projection is based on. No one is expecting a complete player right away.

I saw it and I said AK47 had the same qualities as a rookie...He even shot 25%n from the three...

AK is not 7'3. If Porzingis was 6'9, we would not be saying the same things about him. If i was 6'8 instead of 6'0, i would be a different player too.

How has Porzingis used that 7'3" frame other than put backs and defending the rim...Porzingis is trying to play like Melo...He is doing Melo's moves..I saw a fade away base line turn around jumper, I saw him double pump twice going for a lay up...I saw him trying to take Jabari Parker off the dribble from the three point line, which won't happen in the NBA...In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect...

You just mentioned 2 ways he is using his 7'3 frame, one on each end of the court. If you are looking for a very complete player 7 games into his career, you won't have many in NBA history to chose from. In addition, you said he wasn't creating his own shot, yet you just explained how he is. You are answering every one of your questions without realizing it.

Alright..

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:
How has Porzingis used that 7'3" frame other than put backs and defending the rim...Porzingis is trying to play like Melo...He is doing Melo's moves..I saw a fade away base line turn around jumper, I saw him double pump twice going for a lay ups...I saw him trying to take Jabari Parker off the dribble from the three point line, which won't happen in the NBA...In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect...

He's played 7 games.

C'mon man.

His playing 7 games doesn't preclude some from projecting him as franchise..But me asking what you are seeing that I'm not seeing is an issue?

I'd agree that it's BOTH too early to project him as a franchise player and too early to say he's not yet playing like he can or wants to be a franchise player.

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

or a large dose of FUAWK YOU

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:
How has Porzingis used that 7'3" frame other than put backs and defending the rim...Porzingis is trying to play like Melo...He is doing Melo's moves..I saw a fade away base line turn around jumper, I saw him double pump twice going for a lay ups...I saw him trying to take Jabari Parker off the dribble from the three point line, which won't happen in the NBA...In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect...

He's played 7 games.

C'mon man.

His playing 7 games doesn't preclude some from projecting him as franchise..But me asking what you are seeing that I'm not seeing is an issue?

I'd agree that it's BOTH too early to project him as a franchise player and too early to say he's not yet playing like he can or wants to be a franchise player.

What????..How could it be both???..I never said he doesn't want to be a franchise player..

Too early to project that about him one way or another. I'm perfectly comfortable letting him get this feet wet before starting the projections.

No one has said he wouldn't be a franchise player and no one has said he doesn't want to be..

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:
How has Porzingis used that 7'3" frame other than put backs and defending the rim...Porzingis is trying to play like Melo...He is doing Melo's moves..I saw a fade away base line turn around jumper, I saw him double pump twice going for a lay ups...I saw him trying to take Jabari Parker off the dribble from the three point line, which won't happen in the NBA...In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect...

He's played 7 games.

C'mon man.

His playing 7 games doesn't preclude some from projecting him as franchise..But me asking what you are seeing that I'm not seeing is an issue?

I'd agree that it's BOTH too early to project him as a franchise player and too early to say he's not yet playing like he can or wants to be a franchise player.

What????..How could it be both???..I never said he doesn't want to be a franchise player..

Too early to project that about him one way or another. I'm perfectly comfortable letting him get this feet wet before starting the projections.

No one has said he wouldn't be a franchise player and no one has said he doesn't want to be..

I've lost track of what it is you're trying to say.

You said: "In my opinion, he isn't using his frame to make himself a franchise prospect…"

All I said was saying that about a player who's played in 7 career games is ridiculous.

If you are going to jump in on a conversation then just do me the favor of getting up to speed on your own and not having me restate for the 10th time what I initially said..

bigbasketballs wrote:

holfresh wrote:If you are going to jump in on a conversation then just do me the favor of getting up to speed on your own and not having me restate for the 10th time what I initially said..

What does it matter? YOu didn't mean what I responded to?

So let me get this straight..After two or three times of misstating what I have said, you now feel the initial thought doesn't matter because one of the reasoning I presented to another poster of my apprehensions, u now have a problem with?