dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

No its very realistic expectation and I am sure / I hope its phils expectation. Its fans like you who don't demand it from him.

No, its not realistic. I've been playing ball and watching for close to 35 years, coaching for 10. Asking a scorer to never force a shot ever is unrealistic. As a coach, you can demand perfection, if you get close, you've done your job. Scorers score and thats what they do. Jordan has forced shots, Bird forced shots, Dominique, Kobe, Lebron, Steph, Durant, Harden etc...Scorers shoot over 20 shots per. No way is every single one of those 20+ shots every single night is going to be perfect or in the flow. At least 5 of them will be forced. The great ones can some of them...That's reality

if he doesn't do other basketball things well on the court then those 5 forced shots are a recipe for mediocrity and underachievement. just look at kawhi leonard. that is a complete player.

yeah, a truly complete player playing alongside those nobodies he plays with. You still wearing your Paul Boy George tshirts, dkt7th?

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Nalod wrote:"I don't see a formula for the tem to win big for years with Melo"......

Nobody can see it. It may not exist, but then again who can really foretell the future?

Did we see GS three years ago as being champs? I would have thought the Thunder would have one by now.
Did we see Lebron go back to Clev and parlay Wiggens to Love?
Did we see ATL on a path to win 60games last year?

It been discussed that Melo in a smaller role could work, but to have a smaller role you need players with bigger roles.
The Triangle needs time. The bulls did not win in PHil's first year with that team.

Yea, the Bulls just lost in the Eastern Conference Finals to the eventual champion Detroit Pistons.

Bulls won in Phil's 2nd full season as coach.

This is a whole different scenario. We should go the Golden State route and grow our crops and add some complimentary vegetables in the next 2 to 3 years.

By Year 3 or 4 this will be certain to happen with one of our crops:

NO need for dead weight to hang on, eat cap room, and add zero to the team. Get something for him, anything. Players, picks. Business move, really.

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

he averages 4-6 bad shots a game since a knick. the only expectation you can have with that as a given on a nightly basis is underachievement and basically mediocrity. but what it comes down to for me is his lack of mental toughness. fisher called timeout after two melo ill-advise shots that bricked in the 1st quarter. then he used coded language to critique melo in the postgame. this season is shyt or get off the pot for melo. it's about fukkin' time.

Coded language. I am amazed at your ability to know what people are saying when they say something else. We're you cued into the hidden meaning by an 'irresponsible' Herring tweet or did you come up with this one on your own?

you didn't watch the post game interview with fisher.

I had it on. I was half watching and checking twitter to see if Kristaps was ok. I missed the coded language you were able to decode.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/teams/knicks/2015/11/03/dropbox_nyk_fisher2_20151102_MSGI_2528k_1280w.mp4-92473

listen carefully at the 2-minute mark on especially the 2:50-3:10 mark. unmistakable.

yea lets see how the geniuses spin this one

He's not going to be like Phil, who would probably be more direct, but there is no need of a "decoder" ring to understand what Fisher is saying.

Hard for me to believe that some folks are unable to accept the concept of implied meanings in written or spoken words, which is really what we are talking about.

To be honest, Fisher is almost parroting what Jackson said about Melo at one point or another earlier in the year.

I think Anthony has to take stock of what he can realistically bring to the court at this point in his career and at the stage of his recovery. He should also take advantage of the offense we are running.

You might see more Triangle type stuff if the stagnation we saw at times the other night continues, and this is an offense that should, in theory, get Anthony some open looks if he buys into it.

At this point, after seeing where his game has gone, beginning a couple of years ago, it doesn't take a decoder ring to see what he has to do to compensate for his age and injury related decline.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

This sums up the emptiness of your argument. Thanks for clarifying that much.

I get it, you LOOOOOOOOOVE you some Melo. It's all good. Some drink the Kool Aid, some like to think rationally and logically and see the whole picture. You're a blind follower to the end, ain't nothing wrong with that!

I mean if you want to build a true contender, you don't build around a black hole do you?

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

This sums up the emptiness of your argument. Thanks for clarifying that much.

I get it, you LOOOOOOOOOVE you some Melo. It's all good. Some drink the Kool Aid, some like to think rationally and logically and see the whole picture. You're a blind follower to the end, ain't nothing wrong with that!

I mean if you want to build a true contender, you don't build around a black hole do you?

On the contrary, if you successfully explained a way in which dealing melo actually helps this team both short term and long term, i would be all for it. Just because i don't think you are right, doesn't mean i'm not rational or drink the kool aid. If we are able to land a mid-high lottery pick in this draft to replace our's (because we will be in the lottery after trading Melo, possibly be there regardless) than that's a reason to trade him. Unless your plan is to get to the playoffs on a rookie-led team??? Sounds rational. If we are able to replace him with players who can take his place and help us win the same amount of games this season (not sure how you prove that, but let's say landing another top 25 player or 2 top 60 players) than i would be all for it. Problem is you are unsuccessful in this. You just want to go "out with the old and in with the new" as you put it. You don't change to change, you change to improve. Your general idea is that it is addition by subtraction, and that couldn't be more wrong. If fact, i would argue that you are drinking a much stronger kool-aid in this case if you think the young players will automatically excel at a faster rate and we will become a better team without Melo. You are sorely mistaken. If you are so much more rational than me, tell me how this team improves quicker without Melo in the picture, and what additional benefit it provides? It doesn't get us more cap space, a higher draft pick, more shots and playing time for young players, or allow a breakout player stuck behind Melo, so what does it do for us?

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

This sums up the emptiness of your argument. Thanks for clarifying that much.

I get it, you LOOOOOOOOOVE you some Melo. It's all good. Some drink the Kool Aid, some like to think rationally and logically and see the whole picture. You're a blind follower to the end, ain't nothing wrong with that!

I mean if you want to build a true contender, you don't build around a black hole do you?

Knicks have shown NO inclination to deal Melo, Melo has shown NO inclination to want to leave, AND he has a full no-trade clause.

So youe definition of "rational" and "logical" is to get into fights about something you (should) know has almost no chance of occurring anytime soon?

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

This sums up the emptiness of your argument. Thanks for clarifying that much.

I get it, you LOOOOOOOOOVE you some Melo. It's all good. Some drink the Kool Aid, some like to think rationally and logically and see the whole picture. You're a blind follower to the end, ain't nothing wrong with that!

I mean if you want to build a true contender, you don't build around a black hole do you?

On the contrary, if you successfully explained a way in which dealing melo actually helps this team both short term and long term, i would be all for it. Just because i don't think you are right, doesn't mean i'm not rational or drink the kool aid. If we are able to land a mid-high lottery pick in this draft to replace our's (because we will be in the lottery after trading Melo, possibly be there regardless) than that's a reason to trade him. Unless your plan is to get to the playoffs on a rookie-led team??? Sounds rational. If we are able to replace him with players who can take his place and help us win the same amount of games this season (not sure how you prove that, but let's say landing another top 25 player or 2 top 60 players) than i would be all for it. Problem is you are unsuccessful in this. You just want to go "out with the old and in with the new" as you put it. You don't change to change, you change to improve. Your general idea is that it is addition by subtraction, and that couldn't be more wrong. If fact, i would argue that you are drinking a much stronger kool-aid in this case if you think the young players will automatically excel at a faster rate and we will become a better team without Melo. You are sorely mistaken. If you are so much more rational than me, tell me how this team improves quicker without Melo in the picture, and what additional benefit it provides? It doesn't get us more cap space, a higher draft pick, more shots and playing time for young players, or allow a breakout player stuck behind Melo, so what does it do for us?

Easy, more ball movement, more minutes, more shots. More trial and error. More teaching games. More on the job training.

How the hell do you think Golden State did it? With an aging superstar on his last legs waiting for Curry to explode? Open your eyes, man.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

I disagree. Without him, you are forced to develop these guys too quickly. Too much pressure to put up numbers. This is not philadelphia, there will still be expectation from fans and media. With Melo here, every one of our young guys is in the perfect complimentary position to grow at their own pace.

I think you put to much into the "NY fan and media media pressure". Sure we all like a winner sooner than later, but I think most fans would be able to identify a 7'3 20 year old in the starting lineup already. Most people with common sense would equate that with rebuilding.

So I disagree with you. There's already a known quantity at the top with Phil Jackson. We have 2 rooks that'll probably both be in the starting lineup once Fisher comes around and benches Jose. New Yorkers, fans, media, press will give the Knicks a pass if they see improvement and exciting youth ball. THE AMAZIN' METS have like all 20 something starters right?!!

Remember we won 17 games last year, so anything above that is progress. So yea...you're wrong. We should proceed without Melo at the closest juncture we can.

Sorry man, i just don't see how you justify handing an even higher lottery pick to the Toronto Raptors just to "move on" from melo who has already bought in and is well-liked and respected by his young teammates just to get KP more shots. KP is getting his touches and has a chance to be the 2nd leading scorer on this team this year. He can average 15-17 ppg if he's truly ready. Grant can move into the starting lineup too. If you told me you think Derrick Williams will be a star but needs to be in the starting lineup and get more minutes, i would say ok you at least have a theory that makes sense, if that's what you really believe, but all of your hopes for this team and its future have nothing to do with needing to trade Melo. The Youth Movement will carry on the same with him still on the team, only difference is you give yourselves a chance to win more games now and maybe even make the playoffs, and not spoon-feed Toronto a high-lottery pick.

Who says we have to be in the lottery? I can see this team win at least 30 games easily without Melo here, which is still an improvement and step in the right direction.

It's not rocket science, out with the old, in with the new. You don't keep your old dusty clock if it's broke and is only right twice a day, you get rid of it if you're doing a home renovation. I don't know about you, but his offensive game is just plain cringe worthy to me. Ugly selfish ISO basketball. Jab step jab step, pump fake, jab step, fadeaway! BRICK!!! He got no hops, no court vision, only passes when he's doubled or tripled...I won't even get into his defense. Gots to get rid of him, and let all the yoots run.

This sums up the emptiness of your argument. Thanks for clarifying that much.

I get it, you LOOOOOOOOOVE you some Melo. It's all good. Some drink the Kool Aid, some like to think rationally and logically and see the whole picture. You're a blind follower to the end, ain't nothing wrong with that!

I mean if you want to build a true contender, you don't build around a black hole do you?

On the contrary, if you successfully explained a way in which dealing melo actually helps this team both short term and long term, i would be all for it. Just because i don't think you are right, doesn't mean i'm not rational or drink the kool aid. If we are able to land a mid-high lottery pick in this draft to replace our's (because we will be in the lottery after trading Melo, possibly be there regardless) than that's a reason to trade him. Unless your plan is to get to the playoffs on a rookie-led team??? Sounds rational. If we are able to replace him with players who can take his place and help us win the same amount of games this season (not sure how you prove that, but let's say landing another top 25 player or 2 top 60 players) than i would be all for it. Problem is you are unsuccessful in this. You just want to go "out with the old and in with the new" as you put it. You don't change to change, you change to improve. Your general idea is that it is addition by subtraction, and that couldn't be more wrong. If fact, i would argue that you are drinking a much stronger kool-aid in this case if you think the young players will automatically excel at a faster rate and we will become a better team without Melo. You are sorely mistaken. If you are so much more rational than me, tell me how this team improves quicker without Melo in the picture, and what additional benefit it provides? It doesn't get us more cap space, a higher draft pick, more shots and playing time for young players, or allow a breakout player stuck behind Melo, so what does it do for us?

Easy, more ball movement, more minutes, more shots. More trial and error. More teaching games. More on the job training.

How the hell do you think Golden State did it? With an aging superstar on his last legs waiting for Curry to explode? Open your eyes, man.