BRIGGS wrote:Knicks have busted a lot of choices whether trades or draft picks since Phil has been here. How long before he gives up on Galloway Derrick Williams Carmelo et . Phil had some luck that he listened to advi e on Porzingis and that we don't have Trey lyles and ty Lawson. He's good at bashing others latest bashing the entire Duke organizatione. Hope we grab the GS C that they had no space 4 Carlos boozer and a pg but who the f knows.

I actually wouldn't mind getting Boozer for next year. He's never been a problem player and would be a good veteran presence for the young kids like KP and D.Williams.

TPercy wrote:Fish do you think it was a smart move to overpay for two NBA journeyman right before summer where we had a wide variety of players who could have shined and brought the same level of intensity. I said it many times that there was a possibility either thanasis, ndour, or labeyrie would play really well and show a lot of potential. Funny thing is that all three of those players are known hardworking players and give it there all for the sake of th r team and play sf or pf, much like amundson and thomas. fishmike, don't get me wrong, I think there is value for for players like those so that they can have a positive influence on our culture here, but it never really made sense getting the two of them back here at the same time.

Look at the prospects on the roster next year:
Galloway, KP, Grant, Early, Ledo (partial), Thanasis (promise?)

Then you have Derrick Williams and Quinn who are 24 and 25 and signed for upside, but are still young, cheap players the Knicks are hoping to build on or build up.

So your looking at 8 guys, who are either pure prospects or unproven young pros with talent whom we are looking to develop. 8 guys is a lot of roster to dedicate to players that (loosely) can be considered prospects.

Vets:
Melo, Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon

And of those vets only two have played in this system, and Melo and Jose were both hurt for more than half the year.

So I 100% endorse those signings and believe they make sense. Those guys wont get many minutes I suspect but they know the system, they defend, the know where to be on the floor and they have shown at times they can play above their talent level, and most of all the coaching staff and FO trust them and want these type of guys around.

assuming we Thanasis and Ledo both make the roster we still have a spot for a guy who slips through the cracks.

You need balance. Thats a fact. You and some may disagree and if thats the case fine. Ive played on a lot of sports teams, and Ive played on teams where 2/3 of the roster are new guys who are learning a system etc and its too many. The lack of stability and knowledge of the system hurts everyone. These young guys and these coaches need a few lunch pale guys THAT KNOW THE SYSTEM. Its not about the role... these guys are most likely short term or will be end of the bench Luke Walton teacher pet types. You dont think those guys are important? Every good team and every established system has them.

guys screaming about some end of the bench guy being a better choice than crappy old Lance and Lou just dont get it. Its not nintendo. These are men with jobs to do. Lou and Lance already know their jobs. They also be effective players next to more talented guys. A guy like Lou is going to look great next to Melo and KP. Its when you ask him to give you 15ppg and 10rebs in 35 minutes a night when he's going to get exposed. Thats not fair or what he was signed for.

Guys like Lance and Lou are proven vets who bring a steady presnce. Ndour might be the next Ibaka, or nothing. We don't know. But if flying off the handle as if ones knowledge base is plugged into to the team and thinking you above even Mills is way over the top fan centric.

We need a guard and a center. Ndour at his weight can't play center. We got a guy 7 foot phuching three who will get burn at the 4. Two rookies rostered and a huge change over already.

BRIGGS wrote:Knicks have busted a lot of choices whether trades or draft picks since Phil has been here. How long before he gives up on Galloway Derrick Williams Carmelo et . Phil had some luck that he listened to advi e on Porzingis and that we don't have Trey lyles and ty Lawson. He's good at bashing others latest bashing the entire Duke organizatione. Hope we grab the GS C that they had no space 4 Carlos boozer and a pg but who the f knows.

Upset that phil giving up already on these guys. You've gone grumpy to the dark side.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What did Cuban give him? Anyone know??

I can't find anything. It sounds like training camp invites with partial guarantees but the Mavs guaranteed more money. Not sure though. It also sounds like he had a better shot of making the 15 man roster in Dallas.

I can't find much either. This has a little insight:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/23/knicks-summer-league-standout-maurice-ndour-headed-to-mavericks-training-camp/

I get the same feeling -- we're talking a TC invite offer with more guaranteed money. Doesn't even sound like it was a automatic roster spot type of deal...Also sounds to me like we lowballed yet another player, the first being Shved. So frustrating. I mean WTF are they doing????!!!!??? Offer A TOP TC offer!! Why nickel and dime the guy??? How do you let Cuban come in a steal this player away with a better TC offer? WTF is that ****?? It's laughable.

Shved got more money than the Knicks could possibly have offered him. And it seemed like he wanted to go back to Europe, Russia specifically.

How can you say that? You don't see what happened here dude? Come on--read between the lines -- If we would've said to this guy, "Alexey, JOB WELL DONE, brah! We want you back. No question about it--as soon as we sign the bulk of our outside FAs, we'll be at the cap and can use the room exception of 2.8mm--we want to use it on you"! If we had approached him like that, he'd still be here. I'd bet any amount of money on it. I bet we never approached him like that--I don't think we professed any excitement over bringing him back at all and lowballed him with a vet minimum offer and never budged off it. I get the feeling that's how Phil conducts business -- meanwhile, a guy like Cuban comes across as much more enthusiastic and adamant about getting what he wants. And guess what--that's how ya gotta be!!! I mean look at the Greg Monroe ****, how we didn't offer him a max contract (which I firmly believe btw). That dude was only linked to us for months. Midnight rolls around on the 1st day of FA and we don't offer him a max offer? WTF was that about?? This dude could've been a 20/10 rock inside for us for years to come.. I don't think we made the necessary, proper offer...Now reports are surfacing that we were looking to force the C spot on LaMarcus Aldridge and that we cancelled the meeting? Can you believe that ****?? Worked out Elliot Williams, a guard with versatility and plenty of talent to get back in the NBA, we have a dire need for backcourt depth and haven't made an offer as of yet (I think we would've heard if we did, even if one was rejected). My bet is we failed to make the man an offer or lowballed yet another guy...I firmly believe we had a chance to sign JaMychal Green last year and ****ed that up too. Now Ndour -- I mean we lost this guy over a better ****ing TC offer? WOW...Anyone else see a pattern here??

How do you know that they didn't say exactly that to Shved?

Don't you know how he knows?? He reads between the lines. Lol

Dude honestly, slip on a ****ing banana peel and break your ****ing neck already. I've seen my share of *******s on this forum but you my friend are the biggest dickhead so far. Consider yourself on ignore mode from here on in as soon as I can manage how to use that feature.

EDIT: Done. That was easy. A shame it had to come to something like that. Been posting on here for a long time--never even thought about using that feature on anyone. Never necessary--I actually care what others have to say around here. But man, I HAVE NEVER seen a more pompous ******* who's gone out of his way to antagonize and deliberately cause trouble on purpose like this jerkoff. Come on--3, 4, 5 posts in a row??? LOL...Supposed to be about basketball--some losers decide to get personal and take jabs but never on the level of this mo-mo. And I hide behind my keyboard?? Man, is that a hoot too. Wow.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Fish do you think it was a smart move to overpay for two NBA journeyman right before summer where we had a wide variety of players who could have shined and brought the same level of intensity. I said it many times that there was a possibility either thanasis, ndour, or labeyrie would play really well and show a lot of potential. Funny thing is that all three of those players are known hardworking players and give it there all for the sake of th r team and play sf or pf, much like amundson and thomas. fishmike, don't get me wrong, I think there is value for for players like those so that they can have a positive influence on our culture here, but it never really made sense getting the two of them back here at the same time.

I actually like the Lou/Lance signings. I think you need balance. The best teams always do.

Look at the prospects on the roster next year:
Galloway, KP, Grant, Early, Ledo (partial), Thanasis (promise?)

Then you have Derrick Williams and Quinn who are 24 and 25 and signed for upside, but are still young, cheap players the Knicks are hoping to build on or build up.

So your looking at 8 guys, who are either pure prospects or unproven young pros with talent whom we are looking to develop. 8 guys is a lot of roster to dedicate to players that (loosely) can be considered prospects.

Vets:
Melo, Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon

And of those vets only two have played in this system, and Melo and Jose were both hurt for more than half the year.

So I 100% endorse those signings and believe they make sense. Those guys wont get many minutes I suspect but they know the system, they defend, the know where to be on the floor and they have shown at times they can play above their talent level, and most of all the coaching staff and FO trust them and want these type of guys around.

assuming we Thanasis and Ledo both make the roster we still have a spot for a guy who slips through the cracks.

You need balance. Thats a fact. You and some may disagree and if thats the case fine. Ive played on a lot of sports teams, and Ive played on teams where 2/3 of the roster are new guys who are learning a system etc and its too many. The lack of stability and knowledge of the system hurts everyone. These young guys and these coaches need a few lunch pale guys THAT KNOW THE SYSTEM. Its not about the role... these guys are most likely short term or will be end of the bench Luke Walton teacher pet types. You dont think those guys are important? Every good team and every established system has them.

guys screaming about some end of the bench guy being a better choice than crappy old Lance and Lou just dont get it. Its not nintendo. These are men with jobs to do. Lou and Lance already know their jobs. They also be effective players next to more talented guys. A guy like Lou is going to look great next to Melo and KP. Its when you ask him to give you 15ppg and 10rebs in 35 minutes a night when he's going to get exposed. Thats not fair or what he was signed for.

this is a good post - agree completely. can't believe there is this level of crying over the 12th, 13th and 14th men on the roster who are all by all accounts excellent teammates and hard workers. that's really all you want when you are trying to establish a new and positive culture.

Nobody is saying Lou or Lance are stars, or even than they are more talented than NDour. They arent. NDour is certainly the better prospect even based on such a small sample size of good summer games. But the staff know and trust Lance and Lou. When the team stunk these guys worked hard and played hard and learned the system and both had some good moments.

I wouldnt even be suprised if Lou or Lance start in the Brewer type role early on.

Phil has done an admirable job adding some young talent and a pipeline. Just need to let them grow. Thanasis is such an athlete... he's athletically everything NDour is. They are very redundant. We have a year invested in the greek. Im not calling that project a failure because he didnt shoot well in summer

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Fish do you think it was a smart move to overpay for two NBA journeyman right before summer where we had a wide variety of players who could have shined and brought the same level of intensity. I said it many times that there was a possibility either thanasis, ndour, or labeyrie would play really well and show a lot of potential. Funny thing is that all three of those players are known hardworking players and give it there all for the sake of th r team and play sf or pf, much like amundson and thomas. fishmike, don't get me wrong, I think there is value for for players like those so that they can have a positive influence on our culture here, but it never really made sense getting the two of them back here at the same time.

I actually like the Lou/Lance signings. I think you need balance. The best teams always do.

Look at the prospects on the roster next year:
Galloway, KP, Grant, Early, Ledo (partial), Thanasis (promise?)

Then you have Derrick Williams and Quinn who are 24 and 25 and signed for upside, but are still young, cheap players the Knicks are hoping to build on or build up.

So your looking at 8 guys, who are either pure prospects or unproven young pros with talent whom we are looking to develop. 8 guys is a lot of roster to dedicate to players that (loosely) can be considered prospects.

Vets:
Melo, Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon

And of those vets only two have played in this system, and Melo and Jose were both hurt for more than half the year.

So I 100% endorse those signings and believe they make sense. Those guys wont get many minutes I suspect but they know the system, they defend, the know where to be on the floor and they have shown at times they can play above their talent level, and most of all the coaching staff and FO trust them and want these type of guys around.

assuming we Thanasis and Ledo both make the roster we still have a spot for a guy who slips through the cracks.

You need balance. Thats a fact. You and some may disagree and if thats the case fine. Ive played on a lot of sports teams, and Ive played on teams where 2/3 of the roster are new guys who are learning a system etc and its too many. The lack of stability and knowledge of the system hurts everyone. These young guys and these coaches need a few lunch pale guys THAT KNOW THE SYSTEM. Its not about the role... these guys are most likely short term or will be end of the bench Luke Walton teacher pet types. You dont think those guys are important? Every good team and every established system has them.

guys screaming about some end of the bench guy being a better choice than crappy old Lance and Lou just dont get it. Its not nintendo. These are men with jobs to do. Lou and Lance already know their jobs. They also be effective players next to more talented guys. A guy like Lou is going to look great next to Melo and KP. Its when you ask him to give you 15ppg and 10rebs in 35 minutes a night when he's going to get exposed. Thats not fair or what he was signed for.

this is a good post - agree completely. can't believe there is this level of crying over the 12th, 13th and 14th men on the roster who are all by all accounts excellent teammates and hard workers. that's really all you want when you are trying to establish a new and positive culture.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Knicks have busted a lot of choices whether trades or draft picks since Phil has been here. How long before he gives up on Galloway Derrick Williams Carmelo et . Phil had some luck that he listened to advi e on Porzingis and that we don't have Trey lyles and ty Lawson. He's good at bashing others latest bashing the entire Duke organizatione. Hope we grab the GS C that they had no space 4 Carlos boozer and a pg but who the f knows.

you have to be kidding me. Phil is lucky to take KP because he listened to his scouts? But your criticizing him for almost taking guys YOU ALONE thought he was going to take like Lyles. That is the most ass backwards logic I have seen and around these parts thats impressive.

We are def taking WCS right? Its done deal right? Give me a freakin break man. I mean knock Phil on moves he's made. It hasnt all been great, but your knocking him on moves YOU THOUGHT he was going to make, or future mistakes like giving up on Galloway. OK

Hahahahaha well said and spot on.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What did Cuban give him? Anyone know??

I can't find anything. It sounds like training camp invites with partial guarantees but the Mavs guaranteed more money. Not sure though. It also sounds like he had a better shot of making the 15 man roster in Dallas.

I can't find much either. This has a little insight:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/23/knicks-summer-league-standout-maurice-ndour-headed-to-mavericks-training-camp/

I get the same feeling -- we're talking a TC invite offer with more guaranteed money. Doesn't even sound like it was a automatic roster spot type of deal...Also sounds to me like we lowballed yet another player, the first being Shved. So frustrating. I mean WTF are they doing????!!!!??? Offer A TOP TC offer!! Why nickel and dime the guy??? How do you let Cuban come in a steal this player away with a better TC offer? WTF is that ****?? It's laughable.

Shved got more money than the Knicks could possibly have offered him. And it seemed like he wanted to go back to Europe, Russia specifically.

How can you say that? You don't see what happened here dude? Come on--read between the lines -- If we would've said to this guy, "Alexey, JOB WELL DONE, brah! We want you back. No question about it--as soon as we sign the bulk of our outside FAs, we'll be at the cap and can use the room exception of 2.8mm--we want to use it on you"! If we had approached him like that, he'd still be here. I'd bet any amount of money on it. I bet we never approached him like that--I don't think we professed any excitement over bringing him back at all and lowballed him with a vet minimum offer and never budged off it. I get the feeling that's how Phil conducts business -- meanwhile, a guy like Cuban comes across as much more enthusiastic and adamant about getting what he wants. And guess what--that's how ya gotta be!!! I mean look at the Greg Monroe ****, how we didn't offer him a max contract (which I firmly believe btw). That dude was only linked to us for months. Midnight rolls around on the 1st day of FA and we don't offer him a max offer? WTF was that about?? This dude could've been a 20/10 rock inside for us for years to come.. I don't think we made the necessary, proper offer...Now reports are surfacing that we were looking to force the C spot on LaMarcus Aldridge and that we cancelled the meeting? Can you believe that ****?? Worked out Elliot Williams, a guard with versatility and plenty of talent to get back in the NBA, we have a dire need for backcourt depth and haven't made an offer as of yet (I think we would've heard if we did, even if one was rejected). My bet is we failed to make the man an offer or lowballed yet another guy...I firmly believe we had a chance to sign JaMychal Green last year and ****ed that up too. Now Ndour -- I mean we lost this guy over a better ****ing TC offer? WOW...Anyone else see a pattern here??

How do you know that they didn't say exactly that to Shved?

Don't you know how he knows?? He reads between the lines. Lol

Dude honestly, slip on a ****ing banana peel and break your ****ing neck already. I've seen my share of *******s on this forum but you my friend are the biggest dickhead so far. Consider yourself on ignore mode from here on in as soon as I can manage how to use that feature.

EDIT: Done. That was easy. A shame it had to come to something like that. Been posting on here for a long time--never even thought about using that feature on anyone. Never necessary--I actually care what others have to say around here. But man, I HAVE NEVER seen a more pompous ******* who's gone out of his way to antagonize and deliberately cause trouble on purpose like this jerkoff. Come on--3, 4, 5 posts in a row??? LOL...Supposed to be about basketball--some losers decide to get personal and take jabs but never on the level of this mo-mo. And I hide behind my keyboard?? Man, is that a hoot too. Wow.

You just haven't had anyone be honest and call you out for the dumb crap you spit out of your mouth and i'm the guy that will do it. If you dont saY dumb stuff and don't try acting like you know more than you do then I would have no reason to call you out or anyone else that does the same crap. If you post stuff that are logical and not dumb i'll be the first to agree or compliment what you say but when you don't then I won't. It's too bad you can't handle someone calling you out but when you grow up you'll learn how to handle it......hopefully. bye bye felicia.

C(newyork) give it a rest man. Breaking peoples cahones tisk tisk no need for it--you try it all the time on me but I actually know who you are and it means nothing believe me. Why are you wasting your time here anyway?