newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

Oh gimmie a friggin' break with Lance Thomas being a professional, OK? These guys are all professionals... It's about prioritizing, talent evaluation and finalizing this roster the right way. On what planet is Lance Thomas more of a priority than Alexey Shved?? Someone care to explain that to me. What criteria are we using to determine that exactly? Is he more talented than Alexey Shved? The answer is a resounding NO here. Oh, but I guess he's more professional and statesmanlike though, right? I mean come on man, WTF are we talking about here??? Bottom line--Shved performed extremely well here, much better than Lance Thomas, and should've been more of a priority to bring back. Case closed. I had Shved as the starting SG for Christ's sake, or at the very least first guard off the bench. Lance Thomas shouldn't even be on the team, let alone in the rotation. Look, if for some reason Shved's the one playing hardball here and being unreasonable with a contract demand, fine, but tell us! Let us know! Haven't heard anything about that--if that was going on, we would've heard about it. Begley over at ESPN stated the Knicks offered Shved a vet minimum contract early on in FA that he turned down (less than what we just gave Thomas I believe btw -- a slap in the face quite honestly, based on how Shved performed). That's the only bit of news I've heard regarding bringing Shved back. Nothing else. Not only is Lance Thomas a fringe NBA player, we didn't need him back--we have that position covered and if we wanted more depth at that spot, there are better options. Lance Thomas returning over Alexey Shved is hard to swallow. All there is to say.

Whoa there killer. I'm pretty sure I read that Phil already offered Shved a vet min contract and he declined and also a couple other teams offered the same and he declined all of themy and that was offered to him way before this L.Thomas deal which would mean Phil did make signing Shved a priority over signing Lance.

Come on man--a vet minimum offer to this guy was insulting.

Finestrg wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

Oh gimmie a friggin' break with Lance Thomas being a professional, OK? These guys are all professionals... It's about prioritizing, talent evaluation and finalizing this roster the right way. On what planet is Lance Thomas more of a priority than Alexey Shved?? Someone care to explain that to me. What criteria are we using to determine that exactly? Is he more talented than Alexey Shved? The answer is a resounding NO here. Oh, but I guess he's more professional and statesmanlike though, right? I mean come on man, WTF are we talking about here??? Bottom line--Shved performed extremely well here, much better than Lance Thomas, and should've been more of a priority to bring back. Case closed. I had Shved as the starting SG for Christ's sake, or at the very least first guard off the bench. Lance Thomas shouldn't even be on the team, let alone in the rotation. Look, if for some reason Shved's the one playing hardball here and being unreasonable with a contract demand, fine, but tell us! Let us know! Haven't heard anything about that--if that was going on, we would've heard about it. Begley over at ESPN stated the Knicks offered Shved a vet minimum contract early on in FA that he turned down (less than what we just gave Thomas I believe btw -- a slap in the face quite honestly, based on how Shved performed). That's the only bit of news I've heard regarding bringing Shved back. Nothing else. Not only is Lance Thomas a fringe NBA player, we didn't need him back--we have that position covered and if we wanted more depth at that spot, there are better options. Lance Thomas returning over Alexey Shved is hard to swallow. All there is to say.

Whoa there killer. I'm pretty sure I read that Phil already offered Shved a vet min contract and he declined and also a couple other teams offered the same and he declined all of themy and that was offered to him way before this L.Thomas deal which would mean Phil did make signing Shved a priority over signing Lance.

Come on man--a vet minimum offer to this guy was insulting.

We could have better spent the money for more talent, we collected a bunch of ROLE PLAYERS with the 30m already, at some point, we need more talents...
Who did we sign with the 30m that can consistently draw a double team that would create open shots for our team?
If Lance Thomas got his deal, Lou Amundson deserves that money along with Cole Aldrich, while Shved/AB are both more talented than Thomas along with many UFA's still available...
Lance Thomas does not serve a NEED and should not be a priority as many are saying, while we still have holes on our roster with PG that could penetrate/draw double teams with speed/quickness and facilitate,
PF such as Serephin/Joel Freeland or even Boozer
SG/SF with versatility and the ability along with Gereld Green/Wesley Johnson/ even Jeremy Evan's potential with his length/athleticism signed vet min contracts that we could have targeted with more money..

1- Whether it is through trades (as teams will look to clear salary) with OKC, Heat, for James Johnson who is much better than Lance Thomas
Along with getting future draft picks/assets for salary dumps, even if it is just a 2nd rounder, as players like Chalmers/Chris Anderson/DJ AUGUSTINE etc...

2- FA list remaining, some of which were on our roster last year like Shved, Joel Freeland/Serephin, and the many other vet min players that we could have signed...

3- D League Talents

4- Euro Players, especially on our Summer League, and Daniel Hackett

5- Undrafted players, even on Thanasis who took less last season and we would need to use cap space for a 3year deal to prevent future poison pills

6- Waivers, possible amnesty targets

7- players that could penetrate and finish, and facilitate, as we only have Grant that could do that right now

8- shooters/snipers

9- defenders/rebounders like Thabeet even McGee/Larry Sanders/Andray Blatche, along with the players that signed for the vet min would have higher trade value and are better than Lance Thomas
IF WE already had talent on our roster and then signed LT, I do not care, however, we lack a lot of talent in many areas and positions, so this limits our ability to get better and players that would hold greater value, end of story...

The Triangle isn't that important and clearly players DO NOT CARE FOR IT
While we need HIGH IQ players and targeting players that have less talent
Using the roster spot rather than using it on players that are either veterans or have higher potential that can develop in to better players

Even taking a chance on someone like Dorrell Wright...

lets sign stinky players and ignore better players because the stinky player knows the triangle

square peg round hole?

Finestrg wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

Oh gimmie a friggin' break with Lance Thomas being a professional, OK? These guys are all professionals... It's about prioritizing, talent evaluation and finalizing this roster the right way. On what planet is Lance Thomas more of a priority than Alexey Shved?? Someone care to explain that to me. What criteria are we using to determine that exactly? Is he more talented than Alexey Shved? The answer is a resounding NO here. Oh, but I guess he's more professional and statesmanlike though, right? I mean come on man, WTF are we talking about here??? Bottom line--Shved performed extremely well here, much better than Lance Thomas, and should've been more of a priority to bring back. Case closed. I had Shved as the starting SG for Christ's sake, or at the very least first guard off the bench. Lance Thomas shouldn't even be on the team, let alone in the rotation. Look, if for some reason Shved's the one playing hardball here and being unreasonable with a contract demand, fine, but tell us! Let us know! Haven't heard anything about that--if that was going on, we would've heard about it. Begley over at ESPN stated the Knicks offered Shved a vet minimum contract early on in FA that he turned down (less than what we just gave Thomas I believe btw -- a slap in the face quite honestly, based on how Shved performed). That's the only bit of news I've heard regarding bringing Shved back. Nothing else. Not only is Lance Thomas a fringe NBA player, we didn't need him back--we have that position covered and if we wanted more depth at that spot, there are better options. Lance Thomas returning over Alexey Shved is hard to swallow. All there is to say.

Whoa there killer. I'm pretty sure I read that Phil already offered Shved a vet min contract and he declined and also a couple other teams offered the same and he declined all of themy and that was offered to him way before this L.Thomas deal which would mean Phil did make signing Shved a priority over signing Lance.

Come on man--a vet minimum offer to this guy was insulting.

Maybe they like this combo guard Daniel Hacket they are bringing over for a workout.

Yeah, maybe bro. Funny how we haven't heard a lot about him--who knows--maybe have worked out for us, twice supposedly, maybe he didn't. No intel on how those workouts went and then he's not on the SL roster. Looks like the dude may have made the trip over from Europe--while he's here, no one thought he should've been part of the SL team for a handful of games? Some things Phil has done well and I've given him credit. Other things, I just throw my hands up and shake my head man. Been that way ever since he took over, probably always will be that way until his time is up here.

The kids supposedly played in the triangle. I found this post from someone who has seen him play:

"I've watched him in 2 or 3 Euroleague games this year
He’s a tall point guard (the Euroleague official site lists him at 6’7) who won’t force anything. He’s a willing passer and has good court vision, nothing spectacular though. Knows how to post up guards and uses his body well to drive and finish near the basket. Has a rather quick first step too. Won’t shoot much but won’t overdribble either.

His slow lateral movement hurts his defense, although he uses his body to try and stay in front of his man. Will struggle against top competition in that department.

He’s far from an uknown quantity to european fans, unlike Copeland back in the day. He was one of the top players in the EL with Siena a couple of years ago and remains solid.

IMO Hackett is a nice role player who deserves a SL invitation and maybe a minimum deal. Offensively he will fit in the triangle, because he can play off the ball and knock down open shots."

For LT, a 2year vet min deal with a player option for 2nd and eligible to make a bit more with a raise, and sign him down the road for guaranteed low salary for multiple years along with Lou Amundson
That is what they are worth, a player option for security, and a guarantee on vet min money on a multiyear deal like a Reggie Evans..

However, in no way he is a priority over other talents remaining

Thanasis took less money last year and he is young with much higher potential than LT, with the Lith Center, Mdour, other D league players....

John Jenkins
Serephin
Boozer

Euro talents that are unlikely to come to New York with a salary of 500k with 0years experience, it just does not make cents...

Whether players on our Summer League roster, the remaining UFA's, we do not even have a LEGIT PF outside of KP, or a PG that could penetrate outside of Grant consistently to draw double teams and finish
And likely targets in trades as teams that are over the tax to save money...

When we lack play makers, shooters, defenders, this year and have 0 picks next year, it is a horrible signing, while we have used the remaining money for cost efficient talents that signed for the vet min on other teams but would take less with more money and a player option with The Knicks, at worst, players likes Wesley Johnson/Gereld Green, even Jeremy Evans

Justin Holiday >>> Lance Thomas
Wesley Johnson
Gereld Green

*any of the above players are better and signed for the vet min on other teams, even if we signed them to multiyear deals they would still hold more trade value than Lance Thomas and contribute on a higher level*

Jeremy Evans (potential as he didn't get much PT with GREAT ATHLETICISM and LENGTH) signed a 2year vet min deal) so physically he has the tools to be a versatile defender/rebounder/finisher)

Alonzo Gee
Dorell Wright

On top of Shved, AB, Larry Sanders, Blatche, Thabeet

So with basically 2 contracts that we could use with about 2.8m and 3m and 4 roster spots, we could easily find better players than Lance Thomas

Posters here want to use WIN SHARE's to say Lopez was a steal but NOT use it for our season last year for Lance Thomas/Lou Amundson
That is what is wrong with posters here using advanced STATS, holding too much credit to numbers

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

Oh gimmie a friggin' break with Lance Thomas being a professional, OK? These guys are all professionals... It's about prioritizing, talent evaluation and finalizing this roster the right way. On what planet is Lance Thomas more of a priority than Alexey Shved?? Someone care to explain that to me. What criteria are we using to determine that exactly? Is he more talented than Alexey Shved? The answer is a resounding NO here. Oh, but I guess he's more professional and statesmanlike though, right? I mean come on man, WTF are we talking about here??? Bottom line--Shved performed extremely well here, much better than Lance Thomas, and should've been more of a priority to bring back. Case closed. I had Shved as the starting SG for Christ's sake, or at the very least first guard off the bench. Lance Thomas shouldn't even be on the team, let alone in the rotation. Look, if for some reason Shved's the one playing hardball here and being unreasonable with a contract demand, fine, but tell us! Let us know! Haven't heard anything about that--if that was going on, we would've heard about it. Begley over at ESPN stated the Knicks offered Shved a vet minimum contract early on in FA that he turned down (less than what we just gave Thomas I believe btw -- a slap in the face quite honestly, based on how Shved performed). That's the only bit of news I've heard regarding bringing Shved back. Nothing else. Not only is Lance Thomas a fringe NBA player, we didn't need him back--we have that position covered and if we wanted more depth at that spot, there are better options. Lance Thomas returning over Alexey Shved is hard to swallow. All there is to say.

Whoa there killer. I'm pretty sure I read that Phil already offered Shved a vet min contract and he declined and also a couple other teams offered the same and he declined all of themy and that was offered to him way before this L.Thomas deal which would mean Phil did make signing Shved a priority over signing Lance.

In the past....we wouldve over paid for shved and that wouldve called for a similar thread. I know its hard to believe but some agents are hired to make their client rich. You saw that with Lin. Seems like Phil rather add role players that want to be here for other reasons than just money. Shved and his agent are trying to get paid.

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TPercy wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Maybe VCoug knows if the knicks still had his bid rights and went over the min with that. I just hope they could save the $3m+ they have and use it for trades. Maybe the saving grace is having Thomas salary higher helps the knicks match salaries in a trade.

That's the only things I could thing of why a guy of his talents should get over min money.

Maybe we needed to beat other offers he had?? There was talk that 3 other teams were interested in him which one was the Spurs.

Why should did we consider doing that?

Ummmmmmmmmm huh???

I'm saying energy guys are not that rare. We should be be trying to outpay anyone for Lance Thomas.

I would say that energy guys that can actually understand and play in the Triangle are rare. Remember he came in with no training camp and picked up the system very quickly. As did Lou. They both changed the mentality of the team for the better.

we won 17 games how much better were we really

Finestrg wrote:

blkexec wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I don't get this move at all. So many better options out there for a roster spot. How many open spots do we have now anyway? You figure one is almost certainly going to Thanasis (who, if so, should occupy the Lance Thomas spot). If anything, Thomas should've been allowed to compete for a spot with the SL team. I mean WTF--this dude Mo N'dour looks like a vastly superior player to Lance Thomas. Not only that--Shved is much more of a priority. WTF man--get Shved done first--or at least OFFICIALLY offer Shved either the room exception or the rest of the cap space, either/or. Let me hear he turned both down, then I'll move on. Now Phil went and torpedoed one avenue to bring Shved back. Sorry, Lance Thomas doesn't do a thing for me. Better players in the DL for Pete's sake. Not happy.

Phil has a team of NBA professionals, so he clearly knows what he was doing with this move. We are just coach potatos who drink beer all day. If it is any consolation, newyorkerforver was offering to text Phil Jackson that people were not okay with this deal.

Oh gimmie a friggin' break with Lance Thomas being a professional, OK? These guys are all professionals... It's about prioritizing, talent evaluation and finalizing this roster the right way. On what planet is Lance Thomas more of a priority than Alexey Shved?? Someone care to explain that to me. What criteria are we using to determine that exactly? Is he more talented than Alexey Shved? The answer is a resounding NO here. Oh, but I guess he's more professional and statesmanlike though, right? I mean come on man, WTF are we talking about here??? Bottom line--Shved performed extremely well here, much better than Lance Thomas, and should've been more of a priority to bring back. Case closed. I had Shved as the starting SG for Christ's sake, or at the very least first guard off the bench. Lance Thomas shouldn't even be on the team, let alone in the rotation. Look, if for some reason Shved's the one playing hardball here and being unreasonable with a contract demand, fine, but tell us! Let us know! Haven't heard anything about that--if that was going on, we would've heard about it. Begley over at ESPN stated the Knicks offered Shved a vet minimum contract early on in FA that he turned down (less than what we just gave Thomas I believe btw -- a slap in the face quite honestly, based on how Shved performed). That's the only bit of news I've heard regarding bringing Shved back. Nothing else. Not only is Lance Thomas a fringe NBA player, we didn't need him back--we have that position covered and if we wanted more depth at that spot, there are better options. Lance Thomas returning over Alexey Shved is hard to swallow. All there is to say.

Whoa there killer. I'm pretty sure I read that Phil already offered Shved a vet min contract and he declined and also a couple other teams offered the same and he declined all of themy and that was offered to him way before this L.Thomas deal which would mean Phil did make signing Shved a priority over signing Lance.

In the past....we wouldve over paid for shved and that wouldve called for a similar thread. I know its hard to believe but some agents are hired to make their client rich. You saw that with Lin. Seems like Phil rather add role players that want to be here for other reasons than just money. Shved and his agent are trying to get paid.

Lin leaving NY for Houston was a completely different situation. Come on man--I don't need to tell you that. No crazy poison pill type deal with Shved--dude is just looking for fair market value. Something close to what Lin got from Charlotte perhaps, maybe a little more. I don't think that's too much to ask. After Melo went down for good last yr, Shved was easily our best player once he arrived. Not Lance Thomas, Lou Amundson or anyone else...it was Shved. Did Shved not perform well in the triangle? Of course he did--he was the one with the ball in his hands initiating it, making plays within it, excelling in it. I mean I don't get it--some of you are talking about how we need players that fit this damn triangle more than anything else...So for a more than reasonable contract starting in the $2.5 - 2.8mm range maybe less, Shved, a guy who performed better than any other player late in the season somehow now is looked at as some greedy player who's just in it for the money and nothing else? A guy who's some detriment to the locker room or less of a locker room presence compared to end-of-the-bench Lance Thomas? I'm not making Shved out to be Michael Jordan--I know exactly who he is; have a good idea what he's worth too, and I think he'd be worth every penny of a deal starting somewhere in the vicinity of 2.5mm. I think some of you are severely undervaluing Shved's importance to this team. Some of you who have gone out of your way to sing this man's praises now couldn't care less if he's even retained, insinuating that he somehow doesn't fit the triangle profile anymore. Laughable.

and one of our weakness's are penetration with the ability to finish and facilitate
Pushing TEMPO, while Galloway and Calderon are both shooters that play better OFF the ball and doesn't have the ability to penetrate consistently though not nearly as bad as Pablo/Jason Kidd

We simply need players that could score and facilitate and maybe choosing between Shved/Daniel Hackett
Signing LT, ruins any chance of retaining both Shved and AB or Josh Smith *still would be a steal at that price and hold more trade value with the room exemption to 3m deal

And if we sign Thanasis with the minimum, who has lock down defensive potential with a HIGH MOTOR and HIGHER upside than LT, he will not be very happy after he took a 500k less to choosing D League over Europe as Phil Jackson requested, for Euro players with 0years of experience, they are unlikely to signing with NYK's with a starting salary of 500k, as our Summer League roster has some possible keepers especially if they do well along with Hackett...

Wesley Johnson
Gereld Green

are both solid signings that signed for the vet min on contenders, while we might have had a chance to sign them to multiyear deals on contracts of 2m to 3m and still have greater trade value

Jeremy Evans signed a 2year vet min with Dallas and like Gereld Green was a Slam Dunk Champion with great length and athleticism at SF/PF who has much higher potential than LT
Lets not forget that DeMaRRe Carroll was from Utah and barely played like Evans...

Memphis has 4 PG's with

Conley
Udrih
Nick Calathes
Russ Smith

I was hoping we would be able to get Russ Smith last year and his ability to penetrate/finish/and facilitate will likely improve much this year
He has great athleticism fits rights through picks as he is skinny, with great quickness/speed/athleticism and strength reminding me a bit of a young Manu with Grant/Smith developing together would be ideal

Last season, I was hoping we would acquire Tony Wroten and thought he was going to break out with MCW's injury
This season, Russ Smith appears to be ready after his rookie season, like many rookies, it takes at minimum 1year to show potential

As KP gets stronger and fills out, he will be a GREAT PnR weapon like talents such as Dirk, Pau Gasol, KG, and Anthony Davis...
Surrounding KP with 3 and D talents with HIGH IQ to space the floor would be ideal for our future as it takes time to develop in The Triangle and Build Chemistry

Sam Thompson is a G/F that reminds me a bit of a young smaller Ariza