BRIGGS wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fwk00 wrote:First the Knicks don't need a ready for he playoffs candidate when they select, wherever they select. There is this absurd idea that keeps raising its head in these forums that Phil is in a rush because Melo's pants are on fire to win. Get a grip. Phil and Steve and anyone else on the inside including Melo who are speaking about the Knicks plans have all indicated that yes winning is important but that putting together the team the right way and in lasting fashion is paramount.

Mudiay is a legitimate talent and candidate to fulfill the long-term aspect of those Knick assertions. NOBODY expects our draft pick, whoever it may be, to step in and lead the team to victories in year one. *That* is delusional thinking.

This was the kid's first workout after a brief Chinese experience. He looked rusty and he's not Stephan Curry. But he's got an NBA body, talent, and like all NBA rookie point guards will need 3 to five years to mature - deal with it. Assuming he is a talent (and who knows with certainty), and all things being right, he is going to be a load to deal with along the lines of LeBron. That's what potential means - rolling the dice on an archetype who is imperfect to begin with. Like Nene, we will never have a chance to get this kid back if he shines.

I don't know that the Knicks will draft him but if they do I will feel fortunate because I think this is the kind of risk worth tanking for. I don't care that his highlight reel isn't as good as Bargnani's.

Guy who are good NBA players picked high are usually good right away. Derrick Rose John Wall Steph Curry Chris Paul etc.. these guys were all really good year 1. This is not hS to pros--this is a kid who played pro basketball in China. This is an 18 win team. If we pick Mudaiy and hes an 8 point 5 assist guy shooting 40% in year 1--its a high probability hes going to be a lower talent guy than the players mentioned. The only good PG that I know of that took "time" is Steve Nash but I dont think this is a Steve Nash case. If we pick him 4 the pressure is on right away to play well and it should be--or then we should trade down.

By the way the correct pick that year was Amare Stoudemire--not nene. Im concerned about a pick of Mudiay for a lot of reasons

A Our style of play which which is more 'system" orientated"for a PG who look s like hed prefer to play more of an open game
B His lack of a solid jumpshot--this is scary as fans may lose confidence in a player right away--terrible in NYC.
C He does not possess a secondary athletic gear hes a good athlete not great/elite
D On his video from China he seems to turn the ball over quite a bit--watch one of their full games.

He does have nice ballhandling change of pace good size feel for the game athletic seems to rebound well and he certainly can find the open man but here I would say the necessity is to hit the open shoty take care of the ball and be a ball mover. Im not sure this is the PG for this system. I look at 4 as an asset not a player. Im not sure there is a pure star here--could be. But I think it can be tunred into a culmultaive asset where we get more than 1 item and if executed well could be highly valuable. I dont think Mudaiy is more of a home run than Hezonga who has more of a pure game or as safe as kaminsky who feels muliplte voids in the triangle

Briggs I love your enthusiasm for all the players you believe will succeed and thrive. In this case I think you are being short-sighted and you are wrong about players coming in and being immediate impact players. These players can be merchandised as stars from day one but Wiggins is in Minny along with a pretty talented crew. They're picking positions ahead of us. Lots of high picks play for losing teams, they aren't immediate game changers - that's all I'm saying. Cleveland and GS don't have a rookie leading the charge. We simply have to wrap our heads around the fact that we have a bird in hand who is very young by NBA standards, he will be great but not out the gate.

Now your memory may fail you about PG maturity cycles but there was a great article written a number of years ago that tracked this stuff and four and five years after the draft is when PGs become competent. This somewhat dated article is a reminder of the trials and tribulations they go through; http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/1/6/2684573/kyle-lowry-houston-rocket-point-guard-archetype

You also are making way too big a deal of the Triangle as if you need a PHD to get it. It ain't that big a deal.

Westbrook and others had offensive challenges, so what?

"He's not great/elite"? Seriously?

Westbrook turns the ball over. larkin - pixie darling of this year's team turned the ball over. Lebron turns the ball over. Stuff happens. The kid hardly played at all before that short stretch in China. How sharp did you expect him to be?

How am I wrong all of the guys mentioned came in and were immediate impact players. Name me one star PG in this league who wasnt really good in year 1.

I threw out Paul Wall Curry Rose-- Lillard Carter Williams Dwayne Wade. A high end pick who is an elite nBA player is elite from day 1. We won 18 games last year so the player should be granted full playing time right?--I doubt an elite PG would command less than 30 minutes and give us 16-4-7 in year 1. That is the average bar for a budding star. In the NBA a star is almost always a star from day 1.

I think for what this team has Kaminsky is a MUCH safer smarter pick. The guy is 7-1 and he can shoot pass rebound and defend. Hes mature a proven winner a better athlete than is purported and a real find in how the league plays the game right now.

I kind of see Mudiay as a Tyreke Evans right now but a smaller version of him. Hes not going to have that same power Tyreke has and hes not going to have explosion to the basket like Rose does. If he did hed be pick #2--the Lakers wouldnt pass on him.

Lets use some logic. You're watching the NBA finals. What position do you see where the Knicks could make the fastest in roads to being better? How about a 7-1 athlete who can score in the post yet also take his man out to three--use passing skills play good D--lets face it being 7-1 is a good deterrent on D by itself. The POST. These teams S UCK in the post. We get Frank--get him up to 245--we have a weapon few teams have. In this case Triple Threat is right--the PG position is easy to fill. The paint is a whole other gig and then we say this guy can play 4-5 or 5-4 out to three which is hard to guard. He helps make everyone better from minute 1. If someone gets Kaminsky up to a hard 245 hes going to be a 20 point mobile post/perimeter player just like Pau Gasol.

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems like the Lakers workout video is very misleading based on Chad Ford's ESPN article today on Mudiay's case for the #1 pick. Lakers might have done that on purpose. Chad Ford loves this kid based on what he saw in his workout, and says his jump shot isn't broken, and is improving.

Chad Ford is Always. Wrong. He gets lied to so often he should be ashamed. But instead he just runs with it.

I won't disagree, but he is basing this one what he's seen for himself, not what he's heard. He's very high on Mudiay without influence from others.

He also made a case for Darko going #1 over Lebron. He's an idiot. I don't know how he has a job.

Knixkik wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems like the Lakers workout video is very misleading based on Chad Ford's ESPN article today on Mudiay's case for the #1 pick. Lakers might have done that on purpose. Chad Ford loves this kid based on what he saw in his workout, and says his jump shot isn't broken, and is improving.

Chad Ford is Always. Wrong. He gets lied to so often he should be ashamed. But instead he just runs with it.

I won't disagree, but he is basing this one what he's seen for himself, not what he's heard. He's very high on Mudiay without influence from others.

He also made a case for Darko going #1 over Lebron. He's an idiot. I don't know how he has a job.

A lot of people made that same case for Darko and anyone can say it was a bad decision after they saw it was a bad decision. Everyone thought Darko was gonna be a really good player.

Yeah hindsight is 20-20. No one doubted Darko's potential. And every NBA exec or analyst have got plenty predictions wrong.

How soon we forget. Mudiay will be the BPA at 4....and with phil saying we may have to draft a guard if thats the BPA.

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25061260/nba-draft-big-board-notes-emmanuel-mudiay-up-to-no-2

How soon we forget. Mudiay will be the BPA at 4....and with phil saying we may have to draft a guard if thats the BPA.

I think Phil was saying those who think we are just going to take the player they think is 4th best are basically in for a rude awaking- we're drafting for fit. I kind of got the impression he was basically saying we weren't taking Mudiay.

That is up to personal interpretation. The way I see it is Lakers calling him in for seconds was a sign this guy has made a positive impression on them. I cannot see the Knicks passing on Mudiay he is that good. Phil was straight up saying we will be taking one of the two Mudiay or Russell depending on who is on the board. Any way you look at it it's going to be a guessing game all the way to the pick.

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25061260/nba-draft-big-board-notes-emmanuel-mudiay-up-to-no-2

How soon we forget. Mudiay will be the BPA at 4....and with phil saying we may have to draft a guard if thats the BPA.

I think Phil was saying those who think we are just going to take the player they think is 4th best are basically in for a rude awaking- we're drafting for fit. I kind of got the impression he was basically saying we weren't taking Mudiay.

That is up to personal interpretation. The way I see it is Lakers calling him in for seconds was a sign this guy has made a positive impression on them. I cannot see the Knicks passing on Mudiay he is that good. Phil was straight up saying we will be taking one of the two Mudiay or Russell depending on who is on the board. Any way you look at it it's going to be a guessing game all the way to the pick.

It is completely open to interpretation, but mine is more correct than yours- ha!

“I have a definite idea about how I want a team to look and what kind of skills the players need to have,” said Jackson, who remains as wedded as ever to the triangle offense. “When everybody else says, ‘Well, this might be their best pick,’ we’re not going that way at all. We’re going with what we feel will be the best player for us at this particular time.”

The consensus is Mudiay is the 4th pick, which is why I think he was addressing that

Welcome to the Knicks, Trey Lyles.

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25061260/nba-draft-big-board-notes-emmanuel-mudiay-up-to-no-2

How soon we forget. Mudiay will be the BPA at 4....and with phil saying we may have to draft a guard if thats the BPA.

I think Phil was saying those who think we are just going to take the player they think is 4th best are basically in for a rude awaking- we're drafting for fit. I kind of got the impression he was basically saying we weren't taking Mudiay.

That is up to personal interpretation. The way I see it is Lakers calling him in for seconds was a sign this guy has made a positive impression on them. I cannot see the Knicks passing on Mudiay he is that good. Phil was straight up saying we will be taking one of the two Mudiay or Russell depending on who is on the board. Any way you look at it it's going to be a guessing game all the way to the pick.

It is completely open to interpretation, but mine is more correct than yours- ha!

“I have a definite idea about how I want a team to look and what kind of skills the players need to have,” said Jackson, who remains as wedded as ever to the triangle offense. “When everybody else says, ‘Well, this might be their best pick,’ we’re not going that way at all. We’re going with what we feel will be the best player for us at this particular time.”

The consensus is Mudiay is the 4th pick, which is why I think he was addressing that

Welcome to the Knicks, Trey Lyles.

I think Winslow would fit with what he was saying. At this point though, I think we will trade down, so maybe it will indeed be Lyles.

Vmart wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Vmart wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25061260/nba-draft-big-board-notes-emmanuel-mudiay-up-to-no-2

How soon we forget. Mudiay will be the BPA at 4....and with phil saying we may have to draft a guard if thats the BPA.

I think Phil was saying those who think we are just going to take the player they think is 4th best are basically in for a rude awaking- we're drafting for fit. I kind of got the impression he was basically saying we weren't taking Mudiay.

That is up to personal interpretation. The way I see it is Lakers calling him in for seconds was a sign this guy has made a positive impression on them. I cannot see the Knicks passing on Mudiay he is that good. Phil was straight up saying we will be taking one of the two Mudiay or Russell depending on who is on the board. Any way you look at it it's going to be a guessing game all the way to the pick.

It is completely open to interpretation, but mine is more correct than yours- ha!

“I have a definite idea about how I want a team to look and what kind of skills the players need to have,” said Jackson, who remains as wedded as ever to the triangle offense. “When everybody else says, ‘Well, this might be their best pick,’ we’re not going that way at all. We’re going with what we feel will be the best player for us at this particular time.”

The consensus is Mudiay is the 4th pick, which is why I think he was addressing that

Welcome to the Knicks, Trey Lyles.

If that is Phil's pick we might as well give up being anything Knicks.

There are some evaluators who really like Lyles, but I never saw anything special when I watched him.

You also have the Kentucky PR machine churning out comments all the time for their players. I expect that is the kind of free service you are offered if you choose to play with the Kentucky University NBA Prep team.

jbeachboy wrote:if knicks trade down, who else would they get?

jbeachboy wrote:considering how little he got for jr and shump and the chandler deal was kind of bad, i dont have too much confidence

There's a difference when you're dealing from a position of strength vs desperate. Phil doesn't have to do anything. Others teams will call making offers. That will make the situation far better.