holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

Let me ask this. If we did have 3 starters out of Monroe, Melo, Milsap and Harris do you think we could get by with some combo of Calderon, Gallo, THJ, Shved, Ledo and a free agent veteran pick up for cheap next year?? Then after next year when the cap goes up we can add to the guard spot if need be.

These aren't addressing our defensive needs..They are just adding bodies to the roster..

So you don't wanna answer the question then? It's just a simple question that i'm curious to hear what others think about it.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Where is David West now?

What am I, his agent?

I get what your saying but the league is changing...Draymond Green is the starting PF on a championship contending team. I think a rotation of Melo, Tobias, Monroe and Stein can work.. In todays NBA the bigs are playing smaller and the smalls are playing a little bigger...Its all about having at least 4 out of your 5 players that can put the ball on the floor and stretch the floor. Aint as many bruisers up front like in the 80's...

When you do run into that team, you adjust....Stein, Monroe and Melo up front, rotate Tobias in when the other team goes small up front...

Draymond Green defends the position..Atlanta got destroyed on the offensive boards with that type of line up..

Green gives good effort but he gets overmatched at times. Because of his size they also get killed on the offensive glass. When Melo played multiple minutes at 4, he put up big time numbers and was in the running for mvp ( top 5). He may be a bit too small for some 4's, but he can take advantage of them on the other end. Its all about matchups. Going small can make the other team adjust to you as Melo did many times during the 54 win season.

Another point is that you are asking Melo who is your top scorer to go in the battle to get beaten up more as his career advances..If anything, you should be lightening his load to prolong his career..

So you would rather Melo just stick at the SF spot instead of playing PF?? I know i would. I'd rather us sign or draft a starter for the PF spot and play Melo at SF.

Why would you prefer Melo at the 3 spot, when the team has been most successful with him at the 4? I much rather play him there and then get a defensive 5 to make up for the height differential.

Our teams have been constructed so badly the last few years that I don't think what spot Melo played in those games had anything to do with us winning or losing. As long as the team is built correctly around Melo then we can win no matter if he plays the 3 or the 4.

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

Let me ask this. If we did have 3 starters out of Monroe, Melo, Milsap and Harris do you think we could get by with some combo of Calderon, Gallo, THJ, Shved, Ledo and a free agent veteran pick up for cheap next year?? Then after next year when the cap goes up we can add to the guard spot if need be.

Aren't you forgetting our draft pick?

FistOfOakley wrote:i think ppl are hoping for championship aspirations after this offseason... and if you temper your expectations and go down a bit and just go by the best players that are available... that leaves you with guys like monroe and harris...

they are the two youngest and best out of the whole free agent group.. and also the most attainable... the fit for either is not ideal but again.. we're just trying to be the best we can be for next year... being young they have the opportunity to lead the team... along with the #4 pick... in the post-melo era also...

so if you think of it that way... either of these guys look tremendous.. at least to me...

Harris will be a good solution for us at the 3 spot once we trade Melo this year or next for our real franchise player: KAT!

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

Let me ask this. If we did have 3 starters out of Monroe, Melo, Milsap and Harris do you think we could get by with some combo of Calderon, Gallo, THJ, Shved, Ledo and a free agent veteran pick up for cheap next year?? Then after next year when the cap goes up we can add to the guard spot if need be.

These aren't addressing our defensive needs..They are just adding bodies to the roster..

So you don't wanna answer the question then? It's just a simple question that i'm curious to hear what others think about it.

Milsap, Melo, and Harris can do the same things...Monroe is slow but lazy and nonathletic...I don't think that is a good use our money...All it says to me is Phil know he needs to make the playoffs and he is willing to compromise the long term goal to get media and fans off his back...

Rosey wrote:I don't think we should get too hung up on specific position labels (3 vs 4), (2 vs 3), etc. What's most important is the specific skill sets that players have. I would like to see the Knicks move towards acquiring quick athletes with length that can switch interchangeably on defense (GSW have that.) On offense, we should have versatility and have guys whose skills compliment each other - avoid redundancy. Also, it's becoming clear that the way the game has evolved and the rules have changed, you need someone who has enough handle to beat his man off the dribble and create. Looking at last night, However, no matter how much you game plan, a superior ballhandler like Kyrie Erving (when healthy) can make a difference. We have no one like that. Combine that skill with a good post player and then you may have something.

+100

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

Let me ask this. If we did have 3 starters out of Monroe, Melo, Milsap and Harris do you think we could get by with some combo of Calderon, Gallo, THJ, Shved, Ledo and a free agent veteran pick up for cheap next year?? Then after next year when the cap goes up we can add to the guard spot if need be.

These aren't addressing our defensive needs..They are just adding bodies to the roster..

So you don't wanna answer the question then? It's just a simple question that i'm curious to hear what others think about it.

Milsap, Melo, and Harris can do the same things...Monroe is slow but lazy and nonathletic...I don't think that is a good use our money...All it says to me is Phil know he needs to make the playoffs and he is willing to compromise the long term goal to get media and fans off his back...

I'm trying to figure out why you keep replying to my post but not answering the question in the post? Lol The question IF WE DID have 3 players out of Melo, Monroe, Millsap and Harris do you think we could get by with Calderon, Gallo, THJ, Shved, Ledo whoever we draft if it's a guard and maybe sign a veteran guard for cheap for next season and then we can add to the guard spot after next year????? That's the question. I understand you don't want any combo of those names but the question is IF WE DID HAVE THEM.

anrst wrote:melo and harris on the same team would be horrific

Why? There are 12 roster spots. We need as much talent as possible...

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

I agree that recent officiating and superior offensive schemes have allowed 3 point shooting to become a trump card but I disagree with the generalization that its necessarily a perimeter league. Oftentimes, we segment offense/defense/rebounding and perimeter/post aspects to focus our discussions but in reality there is a complex interplay between them, a management of tradeoffs. In that regard, the current metrics that are used are in their infancy and the movement of parts that converge at the 3 pointer are inadequately credited.

The triangle, for example, is a post-geared offense with transition defense balance that in theory can run in perpetuity until a desirable option is found. It also uses screen-action perpendicular to the basket and mid-court strong-weak side exchanges, which are relative emphasized compared to some other strategies. Is this additional complexity justified given current percentages with simple down-screen and roll? Its arguable. Overall, I like it and, notably, the offense is predicated on a dominant post player.

Don't forget the many rule changes geared in increase scoring which it has..Rules changes like perimeter hand checks, forearm checks, defensive 3 seconds where bigs can't cheet to help perimeter defenders, defensive rerouting so u can't follow perimeter players off screens, etc. designed to help the perimeter player..

I like the post game as well but let's not forget the perpetutual motion with previous Phil Jacskon teams usually ended in MJ's or Kobe's hands..

I didn't forget it - I mentioned it in the first sentence. However, the rule changes are not one sided as you present. Specifically your discussion of the defensive 3 rule doesn't account for its context: the 2001-02 allowance of zone defenses, which affect coverage for both offensive modes but preferentially contain all-angle dribble penetration. So, is the current zeitgeist that perimeter players are crucial largely because of the rule changes or because of a relative contemporary decline in premier post players compared to perimeter players? Probably both.

To me, it remains that the best blend/execution of perimeter and post play is determined by the talent available. With respect to the triangle, I'm arguing that it presents selective advantages a priori regardless of your interpretation of the reasons for success of Phil Jackson's previous teams.

Another rule change..The fouls where the offensive player attacking the paint/rim and draws contact is no longer called..Melo driving the lane against Hibbert in the playoffs and Hibbert jumps and create contact...NBA is discouraging these type of plays..

Agree with your observation of the precedent. This tips the scale against the perimeter drive, however, in relation to a post shot attempt. Either way, a combination of Monroe/millsap/Melo is a setup with mediocre potential.