fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

callmened wrote:are we as knicks fan truly going to fall for this? lol

Ha ha! Looks like it!

Let the hilarity begin. A few days ago when I suggested that Carroll, Butler, or Middleton could be signed I was lectured about Restricted Free agency. Now that its rumored that we CAN in fact sign one of these guys, critics come out of the woodwork to criticize such a signing.

LOL.

Look, the Knicks are in the drivers seat with this. If the agent tells the Knicks that Carroll is not just blowing smoke then the Knicks have their man. The threshold for securing Carroll is twofold. First is to load a contract so that it is just enough unacceptable to Atlanta to swallow (refer to the Jeremy Lin fiasco). Second, make the contract so desirable that Carroll cannot say no. This is a formula that will work for any restricted free agent the Knicks want to sign.

Given that there are three or four players the Knicks may want to sign, there's an urgency for the player who is serious about playing in NY to sign an offer sheet quick and decisively - snooze, you lose.

Carroll has been called the heart and soul of the Hawks as well as a "LEADER". This guy is your Batman for Melo. He's got a streak of Oakley in his game and demeanor.

This signing is a no-brainer, IMO.

So the final objections. A max contract? Sure, if you have to. This year's max will look average in two years.

Carroll isn't a restricted FA but Butler and Middleton are. If Carroll should be mentioned with any other players this FA its Danny Green and Wes Matthews. All 2 are SG/SF who play defense, shoot the 3, and are unrestricted this Summer. Of all 3 right now Carroll is playing the best and isn't coming off a major injury like Matthews.

wargames wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

callmened wrote:are we as knicks fan truly going to fall for this? lol

Ha ha! Looks like it!

Let the hilarity begin. A few days ago when I suggested that Carroll, Butler, or Middleton could be signed I was lectured about Restricted Free agency. Now that its rumored that we CAN in fact sign one of these guys, critics come out of the woodwork to criticize such a signing.

LOL.

Look, the Knicks are in the drivers seat with this. If the agent tells the Knicks that Carroll is not just blowing smoke then the Knicks have their man. The threshold for securing Carroll is twofold. First is to load a contract so that it is just enough unacceptable to Atlanta to swallow (refer to the Jeremy Lin fiasco). Second, make the contract so desirable that Carroll cannot say no. This is a formula that will work for any restricted free agent the Knicks want to sign.

Given that there are three or four players the Knicks may want to sign, there's an urgency for the player who is serious about playing in NY to sign an offer sheet quick and decisively - snooze, you lose.

Carroll has been called the heart and soul of the Hawks as well as a "LEADER". This guy is your Batman for Melo. He's got a streak of Oakley in his game and demeanor.

This signing is a no-brainer, IMO.

So the final objections. A max contract? Sure, if you have to. This year's max will look average in two years.

Carroll isn't a restricted FA but Butler and Middleton are. If Carroll should be mentioned with any other players this FA its Danny Green and Wes Matthews. All 2 are SG/SF who play defense, shoot the 3, and are unrestricted this Summer. Of all 3 right now Carroll is playing the best and isn't coming off a major injury like Matthews.

Even better assuming he's serious. But the formula still holds. The contract offering will need to trump sentimentality or the ability of the Hawks to offer a sweeter offer.

Danny Green and Matthews are a different story. Green certainly is worth a flyer on but he's down the list. Portland will do right by Matthews (that's not our business).

Belinelli, Ginobili, and Landry Fields are worth a discussion as well.

its free agency 101 to state/imply/reference the knicks in order to drive up your price.

i'll believe it when i see it

callmened wrote:are we taking this seriously? his friend said he wants to play for the knicks because he liked working out with fisher?

its free agency 101 to state/imply/reference the knicks in order to drive up your price.

i'll believe it when i see it

I agree.....I think it's a win win for guys to use NY like that. Either we over pay him, or somebody else over pay him. It's something most FA's will do and have done for years. Hopefully we have a smart GM that doesn't bite on these types of hyped up media talks. Anybody that wants to win a championship, should know asking for max from a team that has so many holes, is not the type of player we need.....Can't have more than 1 money hungry gunner.

wargames wrote:Another scenario that could happen if the rumors are true next year is:

C Monroe
PF Melo
sf/sg Winslow
sg/sf Carroll
pg Galloway

Its not pretty but it could be very successful. The back court would be very good defensively and could shoot the 3 or slash to the hoop if open. Also that back court would do well in transition. Also all the players in the back court are above avg rebounders for their position. The front court would have the ability to pass out to shooters and score in the post. Melo and Monroe would have good spacing and would carry the majority of offensive load. The only real issue would be defense in the paint.

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If Russell falls, you absolutely take him. If Mudiay blows Phil away in a work out, I'm fine taking him. If Winslow blows you away in a workout, I'm fine taking him. I just like Stein's potential a lot.

I don't know what's worse - to have a team with no real lead guards or to have a team with a gaping hole in the middle. The problem is that top flight guards rarely become free agents anymore it seems. It might make the most sense to draft one of those since they are so hard to acquire otherwise. Mudiay scares me and seems like a horrible fit at PG for the triangle, but maybe I'm wrong about him.

Not having a rim protector, who can also guard those PnR switches is worse than not having a dynamic lead guard. Charle Ward was a lead guard, but he wasn't the dynamic player we see today like Mudiay, Wall,Westbrook, etc. But it worked just fine, he got us to the NBA finals. And there are plenty of Charlie Wards out there.

There are less mobile bigs like WCS, with his speed and defensive potential, who can guard all 5 positions, great hands and agility on those transition lobs and chase down blocks. He's an instant momentum changer. Versus waiting for Kaminsky to get hot from deep. I thought 99% of knick fans hated the Bargs trade? They even hate him so much that they will not give him the vet minimum, if they were the GM? But they love Kaminsky? We need both, plain and simple....And we already have a Kaminsky type in Bargs, and the other jump shooting big we got.....We don't have a WCS type, who can guard all 5 positions. Tyson Chandler wasn't that type to guard players laterally...Fishlips wasn't that type to guard players vertically.

But if you put those two together, make them longer and younger, add D. Jordan potential....you have WCS. For those that don't play basketball, they wouldn't see his value, because he doesn't show up in the stat sheet. But those are the guys that do the dirty work. Bring it every night, eventhough they are not part of the offense.

Lebron James didn't score a lot in HS, like he's doing now....But if you look at just stats, you would pick Melo over Lebron. He's a natural team player, so he's only as good as his HS teammates. He can score at will, but he also likes to pass and get others involved. Have to be careful with looking at just stats. Mudiay is a great example. You can't compare him to Bynum, who's a scoring PG....looking to score first and pass second. Mudiay creates and looks for his teammates first, and scoring second. So his stats will never jump out at you. Which is why Mudiay is being talked about all the way up to the 2nd pick...While Bynum is struggling to get a new contract at the vet minimum. Stats only tell half the story!

Hey, I agree completely. To compare Stein to Jeffries is an insult - and it's just a lazy comparison made by people looking at height and arm length. Shumpert measures out pretty similarly to Jimmy Butler - the little problem is that their games have little in common.

I can be talked into Winslow and maybe Mudiay. I would love to get Russell. If Russell is off the board as expected, I think Stein is the best big we can get. I will be pretty bummed if use the fourth pick in the NBA draft on Porzingis or Kaminsky. Those two have high bust potential imho. Stein will not be an offensive star, but he has the tools to be capable - a threat to go over the top on lobs if you leave him, a threat to own the offensive glass if you leave him, a threat to hit a mid-range jumper. His shot is way advanced over what DeAndre Jordan and Tyson had coming into the league. To say otherwise is a fallacy, pure and simple.

Briggs, look at this video of young Tyson Chandler first few seasons in Chicago and tell me again Willie Cauley Stein reminds you of Jared Jeffries. And, blkexec, you are 100% right - it's not about the highlight blocks and dunks. It's about how this guy can be the anchor of the entire defense. Everything gets easier if you have a guy like this - from Melo guarding his man to Galloway on the perimeter, etc.