gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Holfresh we can always bring JR Smith and his inconsistencies back as the token 2nd scorer.

Give me Monroe and give me Butler or Lance Stephenson at the 2 or someone similar.

You need a balance of scoring and defense. Rim protection, perimeter defense, rebounding, scoring & ball and player movement...

Towns
Monroe
Melo
Butler of Stephenson
Svhed
--------
Galloway

Then you fill out the roster with role players. Maybe a young shot blocking project. Maybe keep Cole, Smith, Lance or Amundson etc. You need pros at the end of the bench. Guys who rarely play but when called upon know the system and are capable of having big games. Guys who push their teammates and make practice competitive. Leadership.

Monroe is not nearly as bad defensively as you guys are making him out to be. He is not Kanter bad.

Basketball is a team game. It requires synergy not allstars at every position. Every player picks up he slack and do whatever it takes to win. Put those pieces in place and Fisher will look a lot smarter.

Knicks being interested in Monroe is a lot more exciting than starting Lou Amundson at PF neXt year. That's something Layden would do.

That's the entire problem..Everyone wants JR to be the 2nd option when he isn't a second option..You are blaming him for not stepping into the role and replacing Amare...He is a 4th option, gets paid like a 4th option and is happily playing that role in Cleveland...It's ok for a 4th option to be inconsistent..

I only brought up JR to give an example that the notion that adding cheap players is what we need. JR was designed because " he was going to take the pressure off of Melo to carry the scoring load"

We need legitimate 2nd, 3rd & 4th options to compete with the best

Well you are endorsing Monroe to get paid like a 2nd option..He isn't a second option...

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Greg Monroe isn't perfect but he's well worth the money. He's a proven low post big and there are few of them in the NBA. it's clear he can't space the floor, he can't defend the rim and he will be a poor fit on a team with a carryover defensive core of Melo, Tim Hardaway Jr and Jose Calderon, esp at max dollars

Greg Monroe is not worth the money. To get rim protection, you need to spend on a legit center or draft one. While I keep saying it and many of you don't seem to give a flying ****, the Knicks might not actually win the draft lottery nor might they get one of the top two picks.

In scenario 1, you have the Knicks with a young drafted center, Greg Monroe, who will have to play PF and Melo at SF. That's some ugly defense right there. Add THJr and Calderon and Shved into that mix and the defense will be toxic. No young rookie center should be asked to carry that much defensive weight on one single team. It's not how you develop a young player, it's how you try to mentally crack him night after night.

In scenario 2, you have the Knicks with a young drafted point guard or wing player, they likely didn't win the draft lottery nor got into the top two picks, they have Monroe at center, who can't defend the rim and Melo at PF, who will be forced to be a designated gunner to enable any kind of floor spacing with Monroe, who has no true outside shot. It will also neutralize one of the things Melo does best, which is work the low post at PF. What this will do is also compromise the defense, into one of the league's worst. Maybe they sign a veteran free agent to play center, but then you go back to the Monroe at PF and Melo at wing scenario, where Melo will get torched night after night chasing younger and faster wings.

One of the reasons Monroe is AVAILABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE is that mix of horrible defense/can't defend the rim/can't space the floor with a legit three ball or even a solid mid range jumper causes so many negative trade offs and conflicts in existing big man rotations.

Max dollars at Monroe and then dollars for rim protection leave the Knicks with how much left to fill out a roster? They would still have no defense on the wings.

It's called DEFENSE AND IT MATTERS. If Monroe gives you 18 and 10 a night but you lose each night by 30 because the defense is like a screen door, how does that help you? How does it help you now? How does it help you in the future?

Just to note, some of you guys here should notice that some of the biggest "Monroe is a good idea" pushers here are some of the same guys who think Bargs being resigned at 3 for 18 was a good idea. But then again, when you bring up the defensive issues with Monroe, it appears the only answer is to KEEP SPENDING MONEY ON THE FRONTCOURT TO FILL THOSE HOLES. Yes, because the Knicks have never been in a position to have OVERPAID NO DEFENSE FRONTCOURT PLAYERS CHOKE OUT THEIR SALARY CAP BEFORE. Yes folks, WE'VE NEVER SEEN THAT ONE BEFORE.

Greg Monroe will ensure the Knicks remain a treadmill team for the length of his entire contract.

But maybe for nixluva, the Knicks rotting in that limbo of the 8th and 9th spot in the East would be considered progress.

We all agree that Defense is important. This is the main reason i've been touting Towns in the draft. All we've been talking about are 2 way players. I love Winslow. So save us the crap about us not caring about defense. However, if they can't draft Towns, there are centers Phil could get in Free Agency who are good rim protectors. It's also important to have a functioning offense. Rim protection is only one aspect of defense. Phil is looking for more players who can provide defense on the perimeter as well. He's not trying to build a weak defensive team.

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Holfresh we can always bring JR Smith and his inconsistencies back as the token 2nd scorer.

Give me Monroe and give me Butler or Lance Stephenson at the 2 or someone similar.

You need a balance of scoring and defense. Rim protection, perimeter defense, rebounding, scoring & ball and player movement...

Towns
Monroe
Melo
Butler of Stephenson
Svhed
--------
Galloway

Then you fill out the roster with role players. Maybe a young shot blocking project. Maybe keep Cole, Smith, Lance or Amundson etc. You need pros at the end of the bench. Guys who rarely play but when called upon know the system and are capable of having big games. Guys who push their teammates and make practice competitive. Leadership.

Monroe is not nearly as bad defensively as you guys are making him out to be. He is not Kanter bad.

Basketball is a team game. It requires synergy not allstars at every position. Every player picks up he slack and do whatever it takes to win. Put those pieces in place and Fisher will look a lot smarter.

Knicks being interested in Monroe is a lot more exciting than starting Lou Amundson at PF neXt year. That's something Layden would do.

That's the entire problem..Everyone wants JR to be the 2nd option when he isn't a second option..You are blaming him for not stepping into the role and replacing Amare...He is a 4th option, gets paid like a 4th option and is happily playing that role in Cleveland...It's ok for a 4th option to be inconsistent..

I only brought up JR to give an example that the notion that adding cheap players is what we need. JR was designed because " he was going to take the pressure off of Melo to carry the scoring load"

We need legitimate 2nd, 3rd & 4th options to compete with the best

Well you are endorsing Monroe to get paid like a 2nd option..He isn't a second option...

No but he is cheaper than a max contract veteran and he may be 3rd or 4th option depending on who we draft and/or sign. He is consistent unlike JR. And he is not going to be out partying all night before a playoff game.

U are delusional if you think they don't all party..So the going rate for a 4th option is 16 mil per these days??

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Holfresh we can always bring JR Smith and his inconsistencies back as the token 2nd scorer.

Give me Monroe and give me Butler or Lance Stephenson at the 2 or someone similar.

You need a balance of scoring and defense. Rim protection, perimeter defense, rebounding, scoring & ball and player movement...

Towns
Monroe
Melo
Butler of Stephenson
Svhed
--------
Galloway

Then you fill out the roster with role players. Maybe a young shot blocking project. Maybe keep Cole, Smith, Lance or Amundson etc. You need pros at the end of the bench. Guys who rarely play but when called upon know the system and are capable of having big games. Guys who push their teammates and make practice competitive. Leadership.

Monroe is not nearly as bad defensively as you guys are making him out to be. He is not Kanter bad.

Basketball is a team game. It requires synergy not allstars at every position. Every player picks up he slack and do whatever it takes to win. Put those pieces in place and Fisher will look a lot smarter.

Knicks being interested in Monroe is a lot more exciting than starting Lou Amundson at PF neXt year. That's something Layden would do.

That's the entire problem..Everyone wants JR to be the 2nd option when he isn't a second option..You are blaming him for not stepping into the role and replacing Amare...He is a 4th option, gets paid like a 4th option and is happily playing that role in Cleveland...It's ok for a 4th option to be inconsistent..

I only brought up JR to give an example that the notion that adding cheap players is what we need. JR was designed because " he was going to take the pressure off of Melo to carry the scoring load"

We need legitimate 2nd, 3rd & 4th options to compete with the best

Well you are endorsing Monroe to get paid like a 2nd option..He isn't a second option...

No but he is cheaper than a max contract veteran and he may be 3rd or 4th option depending on who we draft and/or sign. He is consistent unlike JR. And he is not going to be out partying all night before a playoff game.

U are delusional if you think they don't all party..So the going rate for a 4th option is 16 mil per these days??

Who and the players we should target as the 2nd options and how much are we paying them?

knickscity wrote:Now I will address Monroe's offense. I hear he's consistent, I disagree. His %'s have come down with more use, and his free throw % isnt all that great. he really isnt a good shooter outside of point blank shots.

Anyone wanna take a stab as to why his ts% is so low? Dont say he doesnt take threes, so it's unfair to use ts%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html

Monroe is not perfect but if Phil signs him it's because he thinks Monroe will fit the system. What better options are there? Durant, Alridge & Gasol are not coming here and they are older require veteran tier max money

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:What are the inexpensive options out there that fit what Phil is trying to do? Inexpensive players usually come with flaws. Which is why they come cheap. Go ahead I'm all ears...

See this is the issue. All players have flaws, some more than others. Just because someone doesnt like Monroe doesnt mean "well who would you pick"? I wouldnt settle for Monroe, Monroe IS the topic, not alternatives.

Yea I sense your open mindedness. I'm speaking more to the people who think Monroe is a total bum and the Knicks are done if they pay him $15mil which like Bonn said maybe be the equivalent of $10-12mil when the cap increases. We get to reap the benefits of a durable 25yr old double-double player for years to come. Less risk of injury and bust potential

Lopez teams are 10-3 since moving him to starting 5 with Young at 4

Monroe teams have lost 12 in a row 0-12 the last 12 he played. Hes never been on a winning team or even close.

Even with some people breaking them on Kanter--OKC is 14-10 with him with BIG time injuries on their team. And he has a game that I think will keep expanding.

It is possible Greg Monroe can be ok with more minutes and space and the Knicks are in the position of beggars and choosers.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4472/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4722/

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Holfresh we can always bring JR Smith and his inconsistencies back as the token 2nd scorer.

Give me Monroe and give me Butler or Lance Stephenson at the 2 or someone similar.

You need a balance of scoring and defense. Rim protection, perimeter defense, rebounding, scoring & ball and player movement...

Towns
Monroe
Melo
Butler of Stephenson
Svhed
--------
Galloway

Then you fill out the roster with role players. Maybe a young shot blocking project. Maybe keep Cole, Smith, Lance or Amundson etc. You need pros at the end of the bench. Guys who rarely play but when called upon know the system and are capable of having big games. Guys who push their teammates and make practice competitive. Leadership.

Monroe is not nearly as bad defensively as you guys are making him out to be. He is not Kanter bad.

Basketball is a team game. It requires synergy not allstars at every position. Every player picks up he slack and do whatever it takes to win. Put those pieces in place and Fisher will look a lot smarter.

Knicks being interested in Monroe is a lot more exciting than starting Lou Amundson at PF neXt year. That's something Layden would do.

That's the entire problem..Everyone wants JR to be the 2nd option when he isn't a second option..You are blaming him for not stepping into the role and replacing Amare...He is a 4th option, gets paid like a 4th option and is happily playing that role in Cleveland...It's ok for a 4th option to be inconsistent..

I only brought up JR to give an example that the notion that adding cheap players is what we need. JR was designed because " he was going to take the pressure off of Melo to carry the scoring load"

We need legitimate 2nd, 3rd & 4th options to compete with the best

Well you are endorsing Monroe to get paid like a 2nd option..He isn't a second option...

No but he is cheaper than a max contract veteran and he may be 3rd or 4th option depending on who we draft and/or sign. He is consistent unlike JR. And he is not going to be out partying all night before a playoff game.

U are delusional if you think they don't all party..So the going rate for a 4th option is 16 mil per these days??

Who and the players we should target as the 2nd options and how much are we paying them?

It all doesn't have to happen in the summer of 2015, next year have an even better FA class..Why shoot your entire wad on guys like Monroe in 2015...Just get the affordable pieces and don't run them out of town because they didn't play like the 2nd option when they are really 4th options...

Unless we are holding out for Anthony Davis which would be a mistake. See Walsh-lebron. I'm not interested in another Knick-like starphuch on a plAyer they settle for and is available for the wrong reasons.

The smarter thing is to stock pile draft picks and sign younger player who are entering their prime not on the downside of their careers

You never know what will happen and who will be available instead of making the hasty deal that you think is the last deal out there..When we signed Chandler after we amnesty Billups, Chris Paul wanted out of NO the following year..We traded Chandler to Dallas but Cleveland would have paid a ransom for him if we didn't panic and take on Calderon's deal..