nixluva wrote:

Rookie wrote:They seriously need to get it right this summer. I mean hitting it out of the park. I'm not talking about a starphuck of FA's, but we need all the new additions to be solid contributors with NBA skills that compliment the team/coach/system

I'm pretty sure that they will be looking at highly skilled and smart players who can excel in this system. Phil isn't going to want anymore players who lack overall skills. Just because of how things went in the past doesn't mean they will not be looking for highly efficient players.

We have to remember that any plan is always going to be limited by your actual options. If you're over the cap and don't have any picks then you are choosing from a poorer group of players. That's not going to be the case this summer. They will have a top pick and enough money to go after quality players in Free Agency.

well I'm looking forward to being a 30 win team again

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:another dysfunctional thing that is still bothering me is that our GM/VP doesn't appear to have any definable role with the team. He should be shown the door and a young new analytical hot shot brought in to replace him. Someone who isn't just a yes man and is in touch with what today's NBA is and how the successful teams are scouting/building their rosters. Let Phil be the big picture guy, but right now he's just looking like an old dude who's stuck in the past and is probably smoking to much medical marijuana and maybe even starting to age rapidly.

I love what Phil brings in term of championship appeal and experience. You don't replace. You sack Mills and co and add a younger gm who is in tune with the NBA today and has a full understanding of the value of metrics and signing the right guys and getting young value/assets in trades. Unfortunately it's a little too late for that. However going forward I think it would really help the Knicks and Phil's Knick legacy

Moonangie wrote:We're in a much better place than we were to start this season. Patience, padawans, patience. After waiting 15 years for relevance, we're not too far off now. Sometimes a little losing is all it takes to get us where we need to get.

this is not a little

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Rookie wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I mean we really sck. Please Phil--if you do one thing right--get rid of Jose Calderon--please. The whole team scks--I mean there is not one player you really can count on---I think our best player might be Admundson who's been waived more times than a flag on Independence Day. Tim Hardaway is dumb as a board. Bargnani scks--why are we wasting time on this Shevyd--another non athletic player who has no chance to guard NBA players? Why waste time on these guys????

Galloway is the best player on the squad right now -- simply because he defends very well, is tough, smart and can make a shot.

He's limited in size/stature but that kid has a tremendous heart --- reminds me of Fisher quite a bit. Would love to see him with 4 other very good players around him.
For example - he'd look very nice playing next to either Towns/Okafor because he's intelligent and he understands general movement, spacing and the triangle.

Galloway would excel in the p-n-r, which of course, we run never.

From his final year at SJU -

"According to Synergy Sports Technology, Galloway has become a better spot-up shooter, scoring 1.4 points per spot up (as compared to 1.00 in 2013), and his perimeter accuracy has helped strengthen his overall game, specifically in pick and roll action. More than 20 percent of Galloway’s possession finish with a P&R possession, an significant uptick from his junior year (12 percent), and his decision making once he clears the pick is much improved, scoring more than one point when he dribbles into a jump shot."

I tend to agree and I think it's largely because of his lack of athleticism and size that he needs a good screen to create space for himself. He can shoot well enough and is smart enough to make the right play once he's given a bit of space but overall (as you could see last night against Bradley) he's not great at just breaking people down off the dribble. The triangle helps him get some decent looks sometimes but often the defense knows what cut is about to happen and is over-playing for the cut. He made a couple of nice back-cuts last night but overall he'd be helped with some screen action to help clear his initial defender at least for a couple of dribbles.

weirdly, I was just thinking about this while watching the game last night. When we were thinking about drafting Curry, the knock on him was that he isn't the most athletic guard, but when I watch him now, his handle is just sick. He can get any shot he wants anytime anywhere on the court with his handle. While our system doesn't encourage that type of one on one create your own shot play, there are times when we get into a scoring drought and it is a necessity. If Galloway is going to improve, he is going to need to work on his handle.

Another thing we have gotten away from is having a change of pace unit. Our kids looked pretty good at times earlier in the year when they played together and pushed the pace instead of bringing the ball up and getting into their set, but I guess that's hard to do when you are near bottom of the league in rebounding

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:another dysfunctional thing that is still bothering me is that our GM/VP doesn't appear to have any definable role with the team. He should be shown the door and a young new analytical hot shot brought in to replace him. Someone who isn't just a yes man and is in touch with what today's NBA is and how the successful teams are scouting/building their rosters. Let Phil be the big picture guy, but right now he's just looking like an old dude who's stuck in the past and is probably smoking to much medical marijuana and maybe even starting to age rapidly.

I love what Phil brings in term of championship appeal and experience. You don't replace. You sack Mills and co and add a younger gm who is in tune with the NBA today and has a full understanding of the value of metrics and signing the right guys and getting young value/assets in trades. Unfortunately it's a little too late for that. However going forward I think it would really help the Knicks and Phil's Knick legacy

I would love to see Mills moved out. Not sure why he still has a job.

What is the distain over Mills that you find so objectionable?

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:another dysfunctional thing that is still bothering me is that our GM/VP doesn't appear to have any definable role with the team. He should be shown the door and a young new analytical hot shot brought in to replace him. Someone who isn't just a yes man and is in touch with what today's NBA is and how the successful teams are scouting/building their rosters. Let Phil be the big picture guy, but right now he's just looking like an old dude who's stuck in the past and is probably smoking to much medical marijuana and maybe even starting to age rapidly.

I love what Phil brings in term of championship appeal and experience. You don't replace. You sack Mills and co and add a younger gm who is in tune with the NBA today and has a full understanding of the value of metrics and signing the right guys and getting young value/assets in trades. Unfortunately it's a little too late for that. However going forward I think it would really help the Knicks and Phil's Knick legacy

I would love to see Mills moved out. Not sure why he still has a job.

What is the distain over Mills that you find so objectionable?

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:another dysfunctional thing that is still bothering me is that our GM/VP doesn't appear to have any definable role with the team. He should be shown the door and a young new analytical hot shot brought in to replace him. Someone who isn't just a yes man and is in touch with what today's NBA is and how the successful teams are scouting/building their rosters. Let Phil be the big picture guy, but right now he's just looking like an old dude who's stuck in the past and is probably smoking to much medical marijuana and maybe even starting to age rapidly.

I love what Phil brings in term of championship appeal and experience. You don't replace. You sack Mills and co and add a younger gm who is in tune with the NBA today and has a full understanding of the value of metrics and signing the right guys and getting young value/assets in trades. Unfortunately it's a little too late for that. However going forward I think it would really help the Knicks and Phil's Knick legacy

I would love to see Mills moved out. Not sure why he still has a job.

What is the distain over Mills that you find so objectionable?

I have no idea why he was rehired after being in charge during Isiah's tenure. I have no idea why he was hired and Grunwald was fired after the team won 54 gaes, the Atlantic, and he was 3rd in exec of the year voting. Once he had the job, Chris was given an nba contract, JR was ridiculous but wasn't moved, Shump brooded and even pushed the coach during a game and wasn't traded or disciplined, Tyson, after his horrific series against Indy, spent part of most practices in Mills ear trying to get his coach fired, and the Knicks needed a big and more talent but Steve made no moves. You have been around for a long time. Why do you ask?

One of the other vestiges from the past are the medical team. It was reported that Phil pushed hard to fire them and hire a new team and Dolan pushed back hard.

We can all draw various conclusions, but I do believe most will agree the Knicks medical team has not been comparable to other NBA staffs in terms of diagnostics and prevention.

However they handled themselves, it had to have impacted the re-signing of Melo, because a smart organization would not make him the highest paid player in the game if they had reasonable doubts about that player's ability to fulfill the majority of their five year contract.

We flubbed it big time with Amare. He was uninsurable. Dolan didn't care.

We flubbed it big time with Melo. Gave an untradeable contract. Dolan didn't care.

Phil stepped into this situation knowing he was compromised however he handled it. He knew signing Melo was required, not up to his discretion. And he acquiesced to a situation where he could not nullify Dolan's lust for a marquee signing with reasonable medical opinions.

I do believe our medical staff serves Dolan above all. If we had physicians on board with a real backbone, they would have argued the big picture to a guy like Dolan that signing Amare and then Melo to these kinds of contracts had a low probability of success.

Now I'm sure some dipwad will say that the medical staff's role does not include team building strategy, but if Phoenix's staff seems to clearly impact every decision made by their front office then that is a ridiculous thing to say.

This is not a professional organization. Phil bought into its dysfunction to appease his pocketbook and ego, but he didn't stand up to Dolan from the beginning. The hustle on the public that Phil was granted full autonomy was a complete snow job. This remains Dolan's team. Phil is punching the clock.

Splat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Splat is being a but to harsh but my guess is he's lashing out at the people who went after him when he was posting last time. When he first started posting he was very fair and open minded. This is happens when a place becomes toxic. Just keep it to basketball and everything will be fine

Thanks for that comment. I don't deny I feel totally burned by Dolan. I wouldn't be so caustic if I had not been a die hard Knicks fan. But some people have simplistic ideas about loyalty. If a husband beats his wife should she stay with him? I'm clearly venting, but it is more than that. I'm the ex telling others they don't have to accept the abuse. They can revolt.

This has all put me in a very Spartacus mood and at this point I'm pretty disgusted at people who roll over for the emperor and beg to be sodomized all over again. For some who can't handle my POV that makes me a psycho. For people who actually comprehend human affairs that just makes me pissed off and unwilling to shut up about it.

This is about a corporation and its consumers. This is not a team. There is no culture. There is no essence called "The Knicks" left to be found. This is just about making money.

How can one call themselves a fan of a corporation? You can like some businesses and their products. But what the hell are people loyal to here other than a fiction in their brain. The product is pure garbage and they get upset when someone points it out and itemizes the bad faith of those running this scam? Really?

Many people who think they are loyal fans are often just robots. They can't handle dissent.

If people want to be proud of their team then they should fight for that to happen, not pretend the truth tellers are psychotic. If they can't handle the truth, then they can wave their poms poms and pretend they are ten years old again.

Following a badly managed basketball team is nothing like domestic abuse, get some perspective. How do you feel when someone does nothing but rant at you and call you an idiot for feeling differently from them? Yes, it gets tiresome very quickly, and after a while I get annoyed and tune them out. Tone it down and try engaging with people and understanding their perspective, you might find it more rewarding than ranting and alienating people- seriously do you actually enjoy the exchanges you're having?

Rookie wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Phil is out tanking Philly... at least we're good at something

I still can't get past how Mr. Cap space traded Felton with 1 yr 3.7 left for Calderon with 2yr's 14.2M left on his contract and didn't get a 1st rd pick for Chandler. This isn't a tank, it's a fail.

just want to point out that (1) Chandler had just played some of the worst ball of his career and (2) when Dallas acquired Chandler from Charlotte, the price they paid was Matt Carroll, Erick Dampier and Eduardo Nájera.

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:another dysfunctional thing that is still bothering me is that our GM/VP doesn't appear to have any definable role with the team. He should be shown the door and a young new analytical hot shot brought in to replace him. Someone who isn't just a yes man and is in touch with what today's NBA is and how the successful teams are scouting/building their rosters. Let Phil be the big picture guy, but right now he's just looking like an old dude who's stuck in the past and is probably smoking to much medical marijuana and maybe even starting to age rapidly.

I love what Phil brings in term of championship appeal and experience. You don't replace. You sack Mills and co and add a younger gm who is in tune with the NBA today and has a full understanding of the value of metrics and signing the right guys and getting young value/assets in trades. Unfortunately it's a little too late for that. However going forward I think it would really help the Knicks and Phil's Knick legacy

You do realize that the Knicks front office is all in on metrics and have people who have been on that for many years?

Steve Mills:

“What people don’t realize is that Steve has always been a basketball guy,” said Craig Robinson, the men’s basketball coach at Oregon State and a former teammate of his at Princeton. “There’s no question in my mind that he knows the game, knows how to evaluate talent and knows how to network.”

Mills has his own ideas, of course. To start, he expressed a desire to incorporate more analytics into the fabric of the team. He said he believes in the power of numbers, citing the influence of Dean Oliver’s seminal book on the topic, “Basketball on Paper: Rules and Tools for Performance Analysis.”

Mills said he had been visiting last week with Allan Houston, the Knicks’ assistant general manager, when he noticed a copy of the book in Houston’s office. Seeing it reminded Mills that he had given copies to members of his staff in his first stint at the Garden. In his new role, Mills said he hoped to use advanced metrics to look at matters like lineup combinations, the length of player contracts and the efficacy of the scouting department.

Mills said much of his understanding of the game dated to his time at Princeton, where the culture of the basketball team had required an adjustment. Accustomed to scoring 20 points a game as a high school guard on Long Island, Mills soon realized that Coach Pete Carril’s methodical offense meant that no individual would shine above the others. The system worked, though, and that was paramount.

Mills, who helped steer Princeton to two Ivy League championships, recalled having a conversation with a former colleague who had played at Harvard.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/sports/basketball/completely-ready-or-not-steve-mills-takes-charge-of-knicks.html?pagewanted=all

Mike Smith:

Shortly after graduating, Smith took a job with the New York Knicks. Fast forward a decade, and he's worked his way up from the video room to become a pro scout and director of analytics. These days, Smith is at the forefront of the league's so-called Moneyball movement, analyzing a constant flow of data to help guide the organization to a championship.

Moneyball Meets the Hardwood
Metrics first came to popularity in Major League Baseball, thanks to the work of Bill James and others. It reached a wider audience with 2003 publication of "Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game," Michael Lewis's account of the efforts by Oakland A's General Manager Billy Beane to win with baseball's smallest payroll.

Baseball's always been statistically oriented—batting average, RBIs, ERAs. But 10 years ago, the term "analytics" was uncommon in the NBA. Now what was once considered a secondary interest has now become a critical part of drafting, signing, trading and cutting players—more than 20 of the NBA's 30 teams have analytics departments.

In fact, every professional sport has seen an explosion of growth in analytics. In the NFL, the Cleveland Browns and Chicago Bears have in-house analytics staffs to look at everything from "What should we do on fourth and one?" to the physical potential of draft prospects. A movement has begun to gain traction in the NHL, where the Nashville Predators hire consultants to study issues like the most effective ways to carry the puck into the offensive zone.

In the NBA, rather than rely on the simpler, traditional metrics for evaluating prospective talent (points, rebounds and assists), analytics experts answer questions such as the risk vs. benefit of shooting from different locations on the court, where a rebound is mostly likely to fall, and which players are most likely to come through in the clutch.

"Teams are always looking for as much pertinent information as they possibly can in regards to scouting, game preparation, player evaluation and development," says Rod Thorn, NBA president of basketball operations. "And as analytical evaluation becomes more sophisticated, it will become an even more important part of a team's decision-making process."

Starting this season, the NBA is installing SportVU optical-tracking cameras in every arena to collect information on players and their tendencies. Using player position coordinates, STATS LLC, the NBA's partner with SportVU technology, says its technology breaks down players' positioning and ball movement. Its computer software processes these numbers and can send them to a coach's iPad, allowing the team to make adjustments during or after a game.

"Top to bottom, the SportVU information should have an impact on all parts of an NBA organization," says Brian C. Kopp, senior vice president of sports solutions for STATS LLC.

Consider this scenario: Carmelo Anthony is the Knicks' superstar. But who else should be out there with him? That's where STATS and Smith comes in. "I find out what player combos stand out, which five players work best together."

Smith has jumped into the role at the right time. Right before the start of this season, the Knicks hired Steve Mills as president and general manager, and he let it be known that analytics would play a key role in the team's future. "I think that we have to take a different look in incorporating analytics into how we approach player evaluation and potential trades," Mills told sports radio host Mike Francesa.

Mills declared the team needed to hire scouts with a keen eye for talent and "then also use analytics to help us get to the right decision."

http://alumni.umd.edu/s/1132/1col.aspx?sid=1132&gid=1&pgid=2505

Mark Warkentien:

Director of player personnel Mark Warkentien, who hired analytics pioneer Dean Oliver when he was with the Denver Nuggets, is a believer.

Ultimately, Wally Walker of Seattle's front office realized Oliver, just like a strength coach, could be an asset to a team; Oliver could help him think better. He was hired as Seattle's "statistical consultant" for two seasons before he was scooped up by another forward-thinking GM, Warkentien.

Along with front-office execs Rex Chapman and Bret Bearup, the three have the responsibility of "managing (owner) Stan Kroenke's portfolio," Warkentien said. "You've got 13 guys on a team; every time you do make a move, you're investing 7-8 percent of your portfolio. The more information gives you more knowledge, which gives you more power."

For years, Warkentien has evaluated players with an approach he calls "eyes-ears-numbers." Heading into the 2009 NBA draft, scouts suggested to Warkentien that North Carolina's Ty Lawson was a point guard's point guard. Fast. Heady. A winner. But the kid wasn't a great shooter and wasn't even 6-feet tall. So Denver went to the numbers.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_13541239

Splat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:
Following a badly managed basketball team is nothing like domestic abuse, get some perspective. How do you feel when someone does nothing but rant at you and call you an idiot for feeling differently from them? Yes, it gets tiresome very quickly, and after a while I get annoyed and tune them out. Tone it down and try engaging with people and understanding their perspective, you might find it more rewarding than ranting and alienating people- seriously do you actually enjoy the exchanges you're having?

I have some good exchanges. Mostly I've been raging, so yes I know how I'm coming off to most. Even though most of the guys who come after me are on ignore, I've peeked a few times and they are ALWAYS THE SAME.

When it comes to quid pro quo ad hominem attacks this site has a steady crew of regulars who have always crapped on extreme opinions. It didn't matter if in the past I stated them more graciously or in a more warring manner this past week. Guys like fish and jrmod and reddog have always been intolerant, creepy bastards.

If you look at my conduct, you'll see I crossed the line to the extreme with Nix and most anybody else I've actually answered civilly when not bludgeoned on the first pass. I even gave envy the benefit of the doubt, but peel back the layer on him and it always turns into screeching weasel time. Did I go haywire on them when they started frothing at the mouth? Nah. Ignored. I'm far more in control of myself then you may realize.

But I'll cool it on Nix. I still think he performs the role of a Dolan mouthpiece, but I can concede he has a right to be that way.

Mostly though, there are plenty of people here who are simply incapable of handling extreme opinions. And my skin is too thick to give a crap about them. If they crap on me sometimes I'll crap back, sometimes I'll just ignore them.

No, I don't think the majority here are analagous to abused wives. I'd say many are perfectly fed up with Dolan and this franchise. And the ones who yell at me that my ideas are crap! are usually not very bright so I don't really care what they have to say. But, yes, there are a portion of people who are bright, yet conflicted and maybe my commando tactics did impact a few of them. I only care that a handful of people get shaken up and see the light.

What does that mean? Stop paying Dolan's bills. That's a real world result. Walk the talk. The rest is ineffectual until an anti-Dolan sentiment blows up online. These days Americans rarely rally to produce meaningful public actions, but sometimes web sentiment does catch fire and the media picks up the torch and runs with it.

If fans fan that fire and it one day happens that Dolan gets hot feet and sells you'll remember me as someone who believed that was possible. And it starts when people quit being manipulated into consuming garbage and they actively question the motives of the corporation, because there is no longer a Knicks team only Dolan and his operatives. Phil has already been swallowed by the whale and most of you just don't get it.

Insulting the Knicks is like burning the flag. The patriots get very angry when that happens.

And finally, I'm pretty damn logical in everything I post whether some like it or not. If people crapped on you like they do on me you'd probably be just as ornery and contentious as I've been if not more. I'm fed up and I have an itch to scratch. I'm not going to apologize for that, but I'm not going to insult you for asking me why I've been doing this. This has been my civil response to you.

But my issue is that you seem to think that your view is revolutionary and controversial, when in actual fact everyone on this board thinks Dolan is an idiot. All we differ on is levels of optimism regarding whether he has truly taken a step back, and whether Phil is up to the job. The objective reality is that no one knows. We can infer stuff from past records, but we all come to our own subjective conclusions- there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make someone a stooge, or on someones payroll. It's like me accusing you of being a rich investor who actually wants to buy the Knicks, and that's why you're trying to drum up the Dolan boycott. Do you get how that sounds?

You also keep saying that you're the one who gets the abuse, but from what I've noticed you seem to give out more than you get back, in that regard- not sure if you just don't realize it.