crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Rondo is having issues with Rick Carlisle in Dallas. He's unrestricted. And I think he and Melo have always wanted to play together. Maybe it happens? It's a STARPHUCH move, so you know Dolan would be open to it. And supposedly Tobias Harris wants to play with Melo, too and worked out with him all last summer.

So going by the "Melo still has juice" theory, maybe something like:

PG Rondo
SG Hardaway / Galloway
SF Melo
PF Tobias Harris
C Karl Anthony Towns

I'd rather spend money on Tobias Harris and Rondo than Monroe. And Towns is the kind of guy who could play for defense and rebounding right off the bat as his offense improves. I'd also be fine with Willie Cauley Stein. Something about Okafor scares me.

I think a player like Rondo pounds the rock too much for a Phil Jackson team. Doubt Phil will even consider him.

Okafor is an offensive beast in the post. His footwork, and skills around the basket are way ahead of anyone in this or last years draft. His defense may not be on par with Towns, but its hard to pass up a talent like Okafor if you have the opp to take him. Okafor is the type of player you would have to game-plan for and his impact on the game is felt. He will command double teams which will open up the floor for his teammates. Towns at this point is a jack of all trades type player who does a little bit of most things, but he may or may nor ever develop into an offensive threat.

I agree Rondo doesn't seem on the surface like a Triangle point guard. But a few things: didn't Rondo play his best in a motion offense moving the ball to a scorer very much like Melo in Paul Pierce? And if Melo loudly says he wants to play with Rondo (as he has in previous summers) is Phil really going to have the juice to overrule him? It will be interesting to see if Melo tries to take team-building into his own hands - like he has before. Things like the Lin decision, bringing in Bargnani (CAA, allowed Melo to not play PF, led to Grunwald stepping down) say that Melo has had a say in personnel decisions here. I think when the chips are down this summer, Dolan is gonna try to make Melo happy and we may see him overrule Phil. I also don't totally buy that Rondo would be a bad fit in the Triangle. He's a top notch passer. Dolan is going to want a name. Melo is going to want a star to play with. We know LMA and Marc Gasol ain't coming. I think if Melo wants Rondo, Dolan will press Phil to do it or else present a very good alternative.

Okafor scares me for some reason. I guess the Greg Oden thing. And the Embiid thing. It seems like draft guys try to tell us there's a once in a generation big man coming along every few years and they rarely seem to pan out. My major draft preference is for D'Angelo Russell. Anyway. Just spitballing on a boring Wednesday.

I think you are giving Melo waay too much juice. If he had the juice you claim he has, JR and Amare would still be wearing blue and orange. Phil said he is calling the shots, not Dolan, and I have no reason not to take Phil at his word.

I agree with you about Russell, I think the kid will be a star in the NBA. If the Knicks get the fist pick, they would have to take Okafor, but if we somehow land the 2nd pick, Russell is my pick....

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Rondo is having issues with Rick Carlisle in Dallas. He's unrestricted. And I think he and Melo have always wanted to play together. Maybe it happens? It's a STARPHUCH move, so you know Dolan would be open to it. And supposedly Tobias Harris wants to play with Melo, too and worked out with him all last summer.

So going by the "Melo still has juice" theory, maybe something like:

PG Rondo
SG Hardaway / Galloway
SF Melo
PF Tobias Harris
C Karl Anthony Towns

I'd rather spend money on Tobias Harris and Rondo than Monroe. And Towns is the kind of guy who could play for defense and rebounding right off the bat as his offense improves. I'd also be fine with Willie Cauley Stein. Something about Okafor scares me.

I think a player like Rondo pounds the rock too much for a Phil Jackson team. Doubt Phil will even consider him.

Okafor is an offensive beast in the post. His footwork, and skills around the basket are way ahead of anyone in this or last years draft. His defense may not be on par with Towns, but its hard to pass up a talent like Okafor if you have the opp to take him. Okafor is the type of player you would have to game-plan for and his impact on the game is felt. He will command double teams which will open up the floor for his teammates. Towns at this point is a jack of all trades type player who does a little bit of most things, but he may or may nor ever develop into an offensive threat.

I agree Rondo doesn't seem on the surface like a Triangle point guard. But a few things: didn't Rondo play his best in a motion offense moving the ball to a scorer very much like Melo in Paul Pierce? And if Melo loudly says he wants to play with Rondo (as he has in previous summers) is Phil really going to have the juice to overrule him? It will be interesting to see if Melo tries to take team-building into his own hands - like he has before. Things like the Lin decision, bringing in Bargnani (CAA, allowed Melo to not play PF, led to Grunwald stepping down) say that Melo has had a say in personnel decisions here. I think when the chips are down this summer, Dolan is gonna try to make Melo happy and we may see him overrule Phil. I also don't totally buy that Rondo would be a bad fit in the Triangle. He's a top notch passer. Dolan is going to want a name. Melo is going to want a star to play with. We know LMA and Marc Gasol ain't coming. I think if Melo wants Rondo, Dolan will press Phil to do it or else present a very good alternative.

Okafor scares me for some reason. I guess the Greg Oden thing. And the Embiid thing. It seems like draft guys try to tell us there's a once in a generation big man coming along every few years and they rarely seem to pan out. My major draft preference is for D'Angelo Russell. Anyway. Just spitballing on a boring Wednesday.

I think you are giving Melo waay too much juice. If he had the juice you claim he has, JR and Amare would still be wearing blue and orange. Phil said he is calling the shots, not Dolan, and I have no reason not to take Phil at his word.

I agree with you about Russell, I think the kid will be a star in the NBA. If the Knicks get the fist pick, they would have to take Okafor, but if we somehow land the 2nd pick, Russell is my pick....

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:The idea that Dolan is gonna be cool with going with a youth movement with Melo here... I just don't see it happening. Phil is gonna want to show the Triangle works, Melo wants to contend, Dolan wants to be good in the same backward fashion he always wants it - buying a name to do it for him.

The Knicks are gonna overspend on a name. That's just what's gonna happen.

What does it mean for Phil to overspend on a name? The guys who are most likely to be targeted will be well worth the money they'll ask for. Gasol is the most expensive and least likely to come. Butler is proven young impact player. Monroe is a young and rising double double. Matthews is a pro and there are no questions about him Danny Green would be the same. Drayman Green is the ultimate glue guy. Paul Millsap is a proven vet. I mean really we would get great production from the known FA's that we are likely to consider. I prefer the younger vets simple because we would get more years out of them. IMO they are worth the money we'd have to pay.

This is not to say that we shouldn't also target lower cost 2nd tier players. Paying the top tier FA's IMO is not about overpaying as much as making sure you get a proven talent.

Most of the guys you named are not coming here, let alone leaving their teams. Most of them are RFA.

Jimmy Butler is RFA and the best player on the Bulls - the Bulls will 100% sign him.

Draymond Green is RFA, the heart and soul of the Warriors, a leading defensive player of the year candidate, and Steph Curry's best friend on the team (the team with the best record in basketball) - the Warriors will 100% sign him.

Danny Green is not restricted, but is most certainly second tier and is most likely staying a Spur.

Millsap is UFA, but playing a starring role on the best team in the East. Why would he come here to play in a place where he'd almost certainly sacrifice half of his shots to Melo?

I don't want Greg Monroe - he's a defensive seive who barely ever looks engaged in the game he's playing. Sure, the Knicks can get him for $15M... but why would you want to waste cap room on him?

I'm sorry, but most of the free agency targets being thrown around... it's crazy talk. The Knicks chances of getting guys will come down to guys who are unhappy elsewhere and want a change. If they want money, they'll get more money and more years staying home. If they want to win... why would they come from the top teams in basketball to the Knicks? The new rules have made it less likely a player moves in free agency. Looking at some of the best young players in basketball on the best teams in basketball... they're just not coming here.

This is why I think Rondo and Tobias Harris are legit options - they are unhappy, want to play with Melo, want a change. Draymond Green ain't walking through the door - and if he did, the Warriors would just gleefully match whatever contract he signed.

I'd prefer to rebuild through the draft. But we should all be aware that Phil isn't going to be patient. His legacy is on the line, at least in his mind. Dolan ain't going to be patient because he's Dolan. Melo ain't going to be patient because he's 31 and doesn't want to be embarrassed anymore.

nixluva wrote:
So basically you're conceding that we're not going to be overpaying for names! If you don't think any of them are coming here then why are we talking about the Knicks overpaying for names? You said "The Knicks are gonna overspend on a name. That's just what's gonna happen." Who are you referring to? Rondo and Harris, who is also a restricted FA? I'm just having a hard time understanding what you said before and are saying in your response. It doesn't jibe.

I think because of the lack of patience of Phil, Dolan, Melo and the lack of quality players available due to RFA and the trade deadline moves of guys like Dragic, yes, the Knicks will overpay for a name. I think Rondo is one such name they may overpay for, particularly because Melo wants to play with him. I think Greg Monroe is the other one they may overpay, which I feel would be a big mistake and take us right to the no man's land of 35 winsville aka Dolan Town.

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Rondo is having issues with Rick Carlisle in Dallas. He's unrestricted. And I think he and Melo have always wanted to play together. Maybe it happens? It's a STARPHUCH move, so you know Dolan would be open to it. And supposedly Tobias Harris wants to play with Melo, too and worked out with him all last summer.

So going by the "Melo still has juice" theory, maybe something like:

PG Rondo
SG Hardaway / Galloway
SF Melo
PF Tobias Harris
C Karl Anthony Towns

I'd rather spend money on Tobias Harris and Rondo than Monroe. And Towns is the kind of guy who could play for defense and rebounding right off the bat as his offense improves. I'd also be fine with Willie Cauley Stein. Something about Okafor scares me.

I've said it before, but I think the only realistic star player is Kevin Love. I'm not a fan of his, but I can see him being lured here

Yeah, I buy that, actually. He's miserable in Cleveland. I think LA and NYK will approach him. I've always seen him going to LA - but if he wants to win, Melo is in better shape than Kobe at this point.

edit: but I agree with you - I think he is overrated. He would be a perfect example of overpaying for a name. Though for some reason most folks in the league seem to think he's really good.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:The free agency plan really depends on who we get in the draft. Here is my plan depending on who we get in the draft.

#1 pick Okafor. This means we need a defensive presence at the 4 or 5 spot as the main FA pickup. Then pickup a PG then SG. I am only targeting UFA at every position.
C-Robin Lopez or Omar Asik
PF-OK4
SF-Melo
SG-Danny Green or Wesley Mathews
PG-Lin

#1 pick Towns. This means we need an offensive type player at the 4 spot that can rebound.
C-Towns
PF-Greg Monroe or LMA
SF-Melo
SG-Danny Green or Wesley Mathews
PG-Lin

#1 pick Mundiay. We need to get 5 and 4 that will mesh. They need to defend and rebound.
C-Omar Asik (cheaper than Lopez)
PF-Greg Monroe (cheaper than LMA)
SF-Melo
SG-Danny Green or Mathews
PG-Mundiay

#1 pick d'Angelo Russell. Same as with Mundiay
C-Omar Asik (cheaper than Lopez)
PF-Greg Monroe (cheaper than LMA)
SF-Melo
SG-Russell
PG-Lin

Sign Admunson, Lance Thomas, Galloway,

I would also like to bring in Dunleavy is healthy and available.

Bocker you want to spend 100mm dollars on Asik and Monroe? Im off Monroe completely--I just dont want him at all. Asik is a disaster area waiting to happen for 9-10mm per.

What is wrong with Monroe? He is one of the rare UFA under the age of 25. He's big, still has upside, good fit for triangle, and rebounds the ball well. He's a breakout player on the right team.

First off the cost of Monroe will be OVER 13mm probably close to maximum i.e 16mm. I just think we need to draft well and then look at what we have before we start throwing around huge $$$.

$15mil might be a bargain for Monroe if the cap goes up. He is younger and less injury prone the Durant who is never coming here anyway. We can always make a run at Anthkny Davis on his 2nd or 3rd contract. Youth is the key. Maxing out 30+ year old like aldridge for example as classic knicks. Hopefully Phil goes about things differently. Oh and Durant and Melo is a bad fit

crzymdups wrote:Imagine if the Knicks pick Karl Anthony Towns at pick 3 in the draft and it's announced that they have traded the pick to Cleveland for Kevin Love. It's something I could see this team being dumb and desperate enough to do.

Absolutely. That would be typical. You hope Phil really is going about things differently and there is no more pressure from Dolan going foward.

For once we have to use some foresight and not starphuch. You can have Towns/Ok4 and have money to fill another 2-3 holes. Whereas in the last we would starphuch. The starphuch gets in injured and you are called out with 15 holes in our roster.

We need good players on rookie deals and sign guys who are up and comers not down and out guys

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