gunsnewing wrote:Ok4 is a better passer than Jefferson/Boozer I will give you that

Al Jeff wishes he could move like OK4. Boozer is a huge finesse player. He doesn't dominate inside like OK4. I just think there's no real comparison in terms of OK4's overall talent. I'd advise everyone to go back and look at all of the posted games and highlights of OK4 and really pay attention to the things he does physically and how smart he is in setting up his teammates. He may not be a defensive rim protector but in every other way he's a franchise type of talent that you can build an offense around.

FistOfOakley wrote:no one denies his offensive talent.. i don't think his biggest critics have him rated outside of the top 5... we can talk all day about his offensive talent.. it's not a secret...

its' just the defense is less than adequate and no one wants to talk about how bad he is there... this is not a pg we are talking about either.. this is a center... and these are the same kinds of people who fall in love with a guy like enes kanter or vucevic... and the defense is precisely why their teams don't do well...

Exactly Fist. Amare is an offensive beast too

FistOfOakley wrote:no one denies his offensive talent.. i don't think his biggest critics have him rated outside of the top 5... we can talk all day about his offensive talent.. it's not a secret...

its' just the defense is less than adequate and no one wants to talk about how bad he is there... this is not a pg we are talking about either.. this is a center... and these are the same kinds of people who fall in love with a guy like enes kanter or vucevic... and the defense is precisely why their teams don't do well...

nixluva wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:no one denies his offensive talent.. i don't think his biggest critics have him rated outside of the top 5... we can talk all day about his offensive talent.. it's not a secret...

its' just the defense is less than adequate and no one wants to talk about how bad he is there... this is not a pg we are talking about either.. this is a center... and these are the same kinds of people who fall in love with a guy like enes kanter or vucevic... and the defense is precisely why their teams don't do well...

There's more to a teams defense than the Center spot. The most important area is the guys you have on the perimeter. The better they are the more effective any big you have will be. I can always get a PF/C with Shot blocking ability to play next to OK4. It's very hard to find a player that will anchor your offense on the level that he projects to be. He's still a boy and hasn't even really gained full strength yet. Personally I think that he is told not to risk fouling out. I can't imagine that Coach K is just letting him play and not try to protect the rim at his size without it being part of the plan. It's just too risky for him to waste fouls on a couple of blocked shots. People make a bit too much of that one aspect IMO. There's more to a defense than the rim protection aspect. Especially now with teams launching so many 3's. I'd rather focus on better perimeter D.

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Ok4 is a better passer than Jefferson/Boozer I will give you that

Stop with Boozer comparisons.. your ruining any credibility in this discussion. Boozer is not a 6'11/7'4 player scoring almost 20 a game at 65% getting doubled at 19 YO. Please.. for your own sake, just stop

I was referring to Boozer's empty numbers but fair enough. I will not mention Boozer again. However I don't always trust Yours or Nix opinions. So thats a bit of a red flag for me

You generally fall in love with a player, then that player can do no wrong and is the best ever. Kind of like "the best two-way player since Ewing" type of stuff. OR you choose to loath a player and will agree with any fodder posted on that player regardless of whether or not there is a shred of proof. I can tell you love Towns. Im not sure why but OK. You would take him over OK4 and Russell? I would take both before Towns (at 3). Havent seen enough of Muiday to make any call.

The thing about Towns that makes it hard to evaluate is that he plays with many 7 footers and surely benefits from it, playing with such dominate talent together
While OK4 is the only legit BIG that all teams concentrate and put the #1 priority on stopping every game
But since Kentucky has so many BIGS, they cannot concenrate on just 1 player
OK4's footwork, hands, post ability, the way he uses his body to get position/post/receive the pass, and finish in the paint are all far more advanced than Town's
It is safe to say that OK4 will have the skills needed to be a post player in the NBA while I personally cannot say the same for Town's despite his ceiling
Playing in New York, there a lot of distractions, and a lot of pressure from fans/anaylst etc, always under a microscrope, for the immaturity and lack of focus at his age, I think we would need a strong mentor/veteran and some strong development coaches to work with him
Anthony Davis improved tremndously the past couple years, his rookie year is NOTHING like the game we see from him today, especially with his body and shooting mechanics and shooting abilities, in addition to his strength/foot work/post play

While Willie Stein pretty much resembles Tyson Chandler's game almost identical
Stein looks like he is much stronger to me than Town's, a area that he will also have to work on, I think Stein might even be more NBA ready right now on DEFENSE better than Town's
They both know their limits and will not try to do much more but it Chandler has just gained the confidence to pull a wide open 17footer

For Town's I feel we will need a very good playmaker to get him the ball in spots, where as for OK4, he just has to get strong and fight for position and let him initiate the OFFENSE through the post which was how Shaq and Gasol operated

How and if Town's reaches his ceiling is a question that we all can not answer...
He not only moves like Tyson Chandler, his entire game is like Tyson Chandler

For NYK's, we will have to see how we will build our team, if it will be a G/F type of Offense that resembles the Bulls, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, or Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Kobe
But CA isn't Kobe, especially the young Kobe, he just doesn't have the ability that Kobe can defend/handle the ball/penetrate/create for others
And with this injury to CA, we do not know what to expect out of CA either

By this summer, we will get a better idea what kind of team we resemble and hopefully by the end of next season, we will get a sense of how much whoever we draft will develop with the rest of the team
If Thanasis could be a lock down defender and be a starter for the years to come, along with how hard our draft pick will develop and work in practice/gym to develop their games like Anthony Davis did...
If we show much promise, in 2017, when the cap will rise much, we could draw the attention of ALL STAR FA's to make NYK an attractice place to seriously consider if CA is still a top scorer and could evolve his game or not....

You have to really watch Towns Ron

gunsnewing wrote:

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert was playing like our best 2way player since Ewing/Sprewell when I said that but fair enough. I know where you stand

Yeah, I always liked him, yet so many posters here kept pointing blame at him
He always sacrificed for the better of the team but he was never teamed up with anyone that suited his skill set, outside of the style that he played with Lin in an uptempo system
Sure, his game took a step back with his injury but Woodson's inability to involve anyone but CA and JR Smith surely didn't help his development

Our lack of play makers, 2way players *Fields, JJ, Novak, Tyson Chandler* all looked great on both ends on the floor and we actually played as a team
The following year, our older players provided leadership that we lack for the season, but in the end, we simply were not good enough to win when it counts, especially not at the style of play we did play with

So we need the combination of leaders and talent to go with HIGH IQ/DEFENSIVE YOUNGER players, with more talents that fit to be considered seriously to be a contender
The thing is how many years does CA have in him to play at a high level at his age/injury concerns?
How will his ego come in to play if he does decline? Will

Exactly Ron. Thats what guys like Fish(CAA-Camelo Anthony Apologists(thanks Waltlongmire) don't get. You need 2way players to win. You can win with Melo & OK4 despite them not being a great 2way players but you have to surround them with really good defenders and a rim protector which I truly believe Towns is. He's the whole package

and even if they do.. i know cle and okc have protections on future outgoing picks so they might not even be able to trade it...

gunsnewing wrote:

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert was playing like our best 2way player since Ewing/Sprewell when I said that but fair enough. I know where you stand

Yeah, I always liked him, yet so many posters here kept pointing blame at him
He always sacrificed for the better of the team but he was never teamed up with anyone that suited his skill set, outside of the style that he played with Lin in an uptempo system
Sure, his game took a step back with his injury but Woodson's inability to involve anyone but CA and JR Smith surely didn't help his development

Our lack of play makers, 2way players *Fields, JJ, Novak, Tyson Chandler* all looked great on both ends on the floor and we actually played as a team
The following year, our older players provided leadership that we lack for the season, but in the end, we simply were not good enough to win when it counts, especially not at the style of play we did play with

So we need the combination of leaders and talent to go with HIGH IQ/DEFENSIVE YOUNGER players, with more talents that fit to be considered seriously to be a contender
The thing is how many years does CA have in him to play at a high level at his age/injury concerns?
How will his ego come in to play if he does decline? Will

Exactly Ron. Thats what guys like Fish(CAA-Camelo Anthony Apologists(thanks Waltlongmire) don't get. You need 2way players to win. You can win with Melo & OK4 despite them not being a great 2way players but you have to surround them with really good defenders and a rim protector which I truly believe Towns is. He's the whole package

Guns.. we get it get it just fine. Playing defense doesnt make you a 2-way player. Playing GOOD defense and GOOD offense makes you a 2-way player. Kind of why I would laugh when you would call Shump the best 2-way player since Ewing. He wasnt even a 2-way player because he sucked on both sides of the ball... but yea dude, glad your hear to set me straight.