Its about money, culture and that adds up to wins.
Knicks are about what could be, not what is.

We are rebuilding.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Nix you don't have to be a salary guy

But realistic might be something you want to try

No way Monroe get's only $10-10.5mil first yr starting salary

And Reggie Jackson $7-$7.5mil first yr starting salary

I honestly have no idea what they're likely to get. Either way the Knicks should have money to go after them or make some kind of deal for them. You could've made your point more convincingly if you had posted what you anticipate they will get in Free Agency.

Some things are well known Monroe turned down a 60 mil deal from detroit and reggie jackson has his eyes on a deal similar to Parsons and hayward. i doubt they come here for the pennies you're suggesting.

From what I could find this is what they wrote about Greg Monroe's contract situation in Detroit.

The big man also went to Twitter to quiet a report that he turned down a five-year, $60 million offer and a four-year, $58 million offer. The free agent said such offers were never put on the table.

My point is more about targeting those specific players. Let's say Monroe is signed for 4 years 58 mil. That would be an average of about $14.5 mil per.

Chandler Parsons signed a 3 year $46.08 million contract with an annual average salary of $15,361,500.

The current salary cap for the 2014-2015 NBA season is set at $63.1 million, with the luxury tax line set at $76.8 million. The cap is projected to jump to about $66.3 million in 2015-2016, and with this news, explode to near $80 million in 2016-2017.

Depending on what Phil does and whether JR opts out, there could very well be enough money to sign Monroe and Jackson to the kind of contracts that you suggest. Even more as the new CBA comes in Phil will likely still have options to further enhance the roster. He has trade options as well. It's not a grim outlook for Phil to remake the roster.

We wont have cap sapce to sign both guys to max deals, which is what they are looking for. But even if we did have that kind of money this team needs more help than those two. A complete overhaul is needed and we dont have the mnoney for that, nor assets to trade.

It doesn't have to come all at once either. In terms of max deals tho I would love for someone to get specific as to exactly what they think a max contract for Monroe and Jackson would be? Even if the Knicks only got Monroe and found another option to round out the roster it's still doable. You guys are talking like the Knicks won't even be in the running for free agents. They clearly will have options and i've only mentioned 2 I think are most likely but who knows what other deals could be made by Phil.

This is how the Knicks will stack up against other team with cap space. The Knicks are going to be in the top tier of teams with space and I don't thin this is the best Phil can do in terms of max space. Also remember that we'll already have a top player in the fold to pair with any incoming Free Agent. Some of these other teams are trying not to lose their top tier player.

2015-16 Cap Minimum -- 59,185,000	                                        Est. Total Cap  Est. Total Cap
Rank	Team	                 Guard Cap	Forward Cap	Center Cap      w/o Holds       w/ Holds                                                              
15	Sacramento Kings	14,157,340	26,179,410	15,851,950	57,112,480	57,112,480
16	New Orleans Pelicans	38,189,183	17,397,137	0	        55,586,320	55,586,320
17	Utah Jazz	        32,407,454	21,525,000	1,175,880	55,108,334	55,108,334
18	Milwaukee Bucks	        16,197,276	19,649,680	16,200,000	52,046,956	52,046,956
19	Toronto Raptors	        32,253,917	10,292,675	6,502,482	49,049,074	50,950,974
20	Orlando Magic	        17,236,444	19,431,696	11,250,000	47,918,140	47,918,140
21	Los Angeles Lakers	31,064,228	5,957,092	9,981,348	47,002,668	47,002,668
22	Boston Celtics	        13,858,493	25,845,684	6,962,135	46,666,312	53,886,312
23	Dallas Mavericks	20,525,975	24,795,436	0	        46,268,687	46,268,687
24	Detroit Pistons	        21,351,316	20,218,240	3,272,090	46,197,792	46,197,792
25	Memphis Grizzlies	27,895,049	14,900,637	0	        43,396,062	43,396,062
26	New York Knicks	        18,516,974	23,720,059	0	        42,237,033	42,237,033
27	Atlanta Hawks	        18,196,733	11,965,928	12,000,000	42,162,661	42,162,661
28	San Antonio Spurs	17,016,447	1,142,880	16,000,000	34,159,327	34,159,327
29	Portland Trail Blazers	9,879,187	12,235,750	8,091,879	30,206,816	30,206,816
30	Philadelphia 76ers	4,578,394	3,584,670	8,084,760	16,247,824	16,247,824

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2015/

I actually stating the Knicks need more than two, and I've already stated what those two guys will be looking for...their max deals.

This is my thing, if the team is using max space to sign a guy or maybe two those two will have to help carry the team to winning at a high level....and neither player has done that. This team also need quality depth which it has none of right now.

The Knicks "cap sapce" wont be enough to fullfill those needs and thats assuming guys will want to play here in an archaic system, with melo and on a big stage. No guarantees there.

Perhaps Phil could do something like this:

Melo     $22,875,000
Monroe   $13,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jackson  $12,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jose     $7,402,812
THJ      $1,304,520
Pablo    $1,734,572
Early    $845,059
Acy      $1,181,348 Team Option
Wear     $1,045,059 Team Option
         $62,388,370 - Projected 2015-16 Cap $66,500,000

Thats not a core for contending, that's the main issue. Secondly I dont see Phil put that kind of money into 3rd tier players.

And third, big FAs are going to come here only if we substantially outbid everyone else. It's not like they're coming here for a chance to contend.

You guys forgot to add the top 5 lottery pick we will probably have this yr. Though I doubt Phil looks to pay Reggie that amount as he will probably look more for a big natural SG to play the role Shumpert is playing this yr instead.

Even if that roster couldn't contend today though there are still avenues for them to gradually get better to the point that they could actually contend. Like future draft picks and smart mid level signings. Doing something with THJ like developing him or trading him for someone that fits better.

If we can't sign anyone then we should buy expirings maybe get an asset as well, like David Lee(15mil) & OJ Mayo(8mil). Then go back into 2016 free agency with even more cap space and a higher salary cap.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Nix you don't have to be a salary guy

But realistic might be something you want to try

No way Monroe get's only $10-10.5mil first yr starting salary

And Reggie Jackson $7-$7.5mil first yr starting salary

I honestly have no idea what they're likely to get. Either way the Knicks should have money to go after them or make some kind of deal for them. You could've made your point more convincingly if you had posted what you anticipate they will get in Free Agency.

Some things are well known Monroe turned down a 60 mil deal from detroit and reggie jackson has his eyes on a deal similar to Parsons and hayward. i doubt they come here for the pennies you're suggesting.

From what I could find this is what they wrote about Greg Monroe's contract situation in Detroit.

The big man also went to Twitter to quiet a report that he turned down a five-year, $60 million offer and a four-year, $58 million offer. The free agent said such offers were never put on the table.

My point is more about targeting those specific players. Let's say Monroe is signed for 4 years 58 mil. That would be an average of about $14.5 mil per.

Chandler Parsons signed a 3 year $46.08 million contract with an annual average salary of $15,361,500.

The current salary cap for the 2014-2015 NBA season is set at $63.1 million, with the luxury tax line set at $76.8 million. The cap is projected to jump to about $66.3 million in 2015-2016, and with this news, explode to near $80 million in 2016-2017.

Depending on what Phil does and whether JR opts out, there could very well be enough money to sign Monroe and Jackson to the kind of contracts that you suggest. Even more as the new CBA comes in Phil will likely still have options to further enhance the roster. He has trade options as well. It's not a grim outlook for Phil to remake the roster.

We wont have cap sapce to sign both guys to max deals, which is what they are looking for. But even if we did have that kind of money this team needs more help than those two. A complete overhaul is needed and we dont have the mnoney for that, nor assets to trade.

It doesn't have to come all at once either. In terms of max deals tho I would love for someone to get specific as to exactly what they think a max contract for Monroe and Jackson would be? Even if the Knicks only got Monroe and found another option to round out the roster it's still doable. You guys are talking like the Knicks won't even be in the running for free agents. They clearly will have options and i've only mentioned 2 I think are most likely but who knows what other deals could be made by Phil.

This is how the Knicks will stack up against other team with cap space. The Knicks are going to be in the top tier of teams with space and I don't thin this is the best Phil can do in terms of max space. Also remember that we'll already have a top player in the fold to pair with any incoming Free Agent. Some of these other teams are trying not to lose their top tier player.

2015-16 Cap Minimum -- 59,185,000	                                        Est. Total Cap  Est. Total Cap
Rank	Team	                 Guard Cap	Forward Cap	Center Cap      w/o Holds       w/ Holds                                                              
15	Sacramento Kings	14,157,340	26,179,410	15,851,950	57,112,480	57,112,480
16	New Orleans Pelicans	38,189,183	17,397,137	0	        55,586,320	55,586,320
17	Utah Jazz	        32,407,454	21,525,000	1,175,880	55,108,334	55,108,334
18	Milwaukee Bucks	        16,197,276	19,649,680	16,200,000	52,046,956	52,046,956
19	Toronto Raptors	        32,253,917	10,292,675	6,502,482	49,049,074	50,950,974
20	Orlando Magic	        17,236,444	19,431,696	11,250,000	47,918,140	47,918,140
21	Los Angeles Lakers	31,064,228	5,957,092	9,981,348	47,002,668	47,002,668
22	Boston Celtics	        13,858,493	25,845,684	6,962,135	46,666,312	53,886,312
23	Dallas Mavericks	20,525,975	24,795,436	0	        46,268,687	46,268,687
24	Detroit Pistons	        21,351,316	20,218,240	3,272,090	46,197,792	46,197,792
25	Memphis Grizzlies	27,895,049	14,900,637	0	        43,396,062	43,396,062
26	New York Knicks	        18,516,974	23,720,059	0	        42,237,033	42,237,033
27	Atlanta Hawks	        18,196,733	11,965,928	12,000,000	42,162,661	42,162,661
28	San Antonio Spurs	17,016,447	1,142,880	16,000,000	34,159,327	34,159,327
29	Portland Trail Blazers	9,879,187	12,235,750	8,091,879	30,206,816	30,206,816
30	Philadelphia 76ers	4,578,394	3,584,670	8,084,760	16,247,824	16,247,824

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2015/

I actually stating the Knicks need more than two, and I've already stated what those two guys will be looking for...their max deals.

This is my thing, if the team is using max space to sign a guy or maybe two those two will have to help carry the team to winning at a high level....and neither player has done that. This team also need quality depth which it has none of right now.

The Knicks "cap sapce" wont be enough to fullfill those needs and thats assuming guys will want to play here in an archaic system, with melo and on a big stage. No guarantees there.

Perhaps Phil could do something like this:

Melo     $22,875,000
Monroe   $13,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jackson  $12,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jose     $7,402,812
THJ      $1,304,520
Pablo    $1,734,572
Early    $845,059
Acy      $1,181,348 Team Option
Wear     $1,045,059 Team Option
         $62,388,370 - Projected 2015-16 Cap $66,500,000

Thats not a core for contending, that's the main issue. Secondly I dont see Phil put that kind of money into 3rd tier players.

And third, big FAs are going to come here only if we substantially outbid everyone else. It's not like they're coming here for a chance to contend.

You guys forgot to add the top 5 lottery pick we will probably have this yr. Though I doubt Phil looks to pay Reggie that amount as he will probably look more for a big natural SG to play the role Shumpert is playing this yr instead.

Even if that roster couldn't contend today though there are still avenues for them to gradually get better to the point that they could actually contend. Like future draft picks and smart mid level signings. Doing something with THJ like developing him or trading him for someone that fits better.

If we can't sign anyone then we should buy expirings maybe get an asset as well, like David Lee(15mil) & OJ Mayo(8mil). Then go back into 2016 free agency with even more cap space and a higher salary cap.

newyorknewyork wrote:Knickcity- The rental player avenue is only a backup plan if u couldn't sign anyone.
Bonn - 7th rd pick, cap space, trade Shump and maybe Hardaway for other pieces. We have enough to create a solid core for the next 10yrs. Then continue to build on top of that season after season.

I agree. I don't know why when anyone suggests a START to the process of building a contender they have to read that it's not good enough cuz it's not immediately a contender. It's very hard under this current CBA to do what other teams did just recently in order to put a title team together. It's not going to be possible to solve the complete set of needs in one fell swoop. Phil should make the positive changes he can make and then continue to build on that.

So when I present an example of what Phil could possibly do it's not the end of the process. Hopefully Phil can make a deal for another pick or young player with potential in addition to the pick we already have.

Melo     $22,875,000
Monroe   $13,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jackson  $12,500,000 to start with max raises each year
Jose     $7,402,812
THJ      $1,304,520
Pablo    $1,734,572
Early    $845,059
Acy      $1,181,348 Team Option
Wear     $1,045,059 Team Option
         $62,388,370 - Projected 2015-16 Cap $66,500,000

Phil might make different choices than i've listed that could get similar results for less cost. It's hard to figure it all out on my own. Phil has a staff and access to more info than I have. As mentioned we also have a pick this year and Phil has other options like trades he can make.

F500ONE wrote:Can someone explain logically why

Marc Gasol leaves

- A Contending Team

- 5th yr on the table

- 7% raises over 4.5%

- Easier Standard of Living

- More Eco Friendly Media

- A System Maximizing His Talents

Not logically, which is why not a lot of people believe he is coming here. We are more likely to get guys like Monroe, Jackson, and maybe Millsap, like its being discussed.

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Can someone explain logically why

Marc Gasol leaves

- A Contending Team

- 5th yr on the table

- 7% raises over 4.5%

- Easier Standard of Living

- More Eco Friendly Media

- A System Maximizing His Talents

We've already established that it's not likely that Marc Gasol would leave and come here.

Okay well OKC has matching rights on Jackson

We'd have to offer full max in order to steal him

The only caveat with him, he's made it known if this hasn't been discussed

He wants a chance to start wherever he lands

This would basically deaden Calderon for 2015-2016

Jackson would start at the 2. He and Calderon are a great fit together. Not like Westbrook and Jackson who are very similar.

nixluva wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Can someone explain logically why

Marc Gasol leaves

- A Contending Team

- 5th yr on the table

- 7% raises over 4.5%

- Easier Standard of Living

- More Eco Friendly Media

- A System Maximizing His Talents

We've already established that it's not likely that Marc Gasol would leave and come here.

Okay well OKC has matching rights on Jackson

We'd have to offer full max in order to steal him

The only caveat with him, he's made it known if this hasn't been discussed

He wants a chance to start wherever he lands

This would basically deaden Calderon for 2015-2016

Jackson would start at the 2. He and Calderon are a great fit together. Not like Westbrook and Jackson who are very similar.

I agree. If Calderon could start with Ellis he can start with Jackson. Also Jose could come of the bench as well. There are options. The idea is to improve the talent on the roster. Phil should have a lot of flexibility to make moves before the trade deadline and after the season.

My issue with your take F500ONE is that you're attempting to make coming to NY sound unattractive even tho we have money, a Pick, Melo, Phil and a fresh start in a new and big city may just look more attractive for a guy like Monroe or Jackson. If you were a young rising talent why wouldn't you want to be a starter in NY for years to come?

Exactly, Jackson is bigger and better defensively than Ellis. Extremely interchangeable with Calderon. And i would expect guys like Jackson and Monroe to be very interested in a place like NY. It is just a matter of if they can handle the pressure and expectations to develop in NY.

nixluva wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Can someone explain logically why

Marc Gasol leaves

- A Contending Team

- 5th yr on the table

- 7% raises over 4.5%

- Easier Standard of Living

- More Eco Friendly Media

- A System Maximizing His Talents

We've already established that it's not likely that Marc Gasol would leave and come here.

Okay well OKC has matching rights on Jackson

We'd have to offer full max in order to steal him

The only caveat with him, he's made it known if this hasn't been discussed

He wants a chance to start wherever he lands

This would basically deaden Calderon for 2015-2016

Jackson would start at the 2. He and Calderon are a great fit together. Not like Westbrook and Jackson who are very similar.

I agree. If Calderon could start with Ellis he can start with Jackson. Also Jose could come of the bench as well. There are options. The idea is to improve the talent on the roster. Phil should have a lot of flexibility to make moves before the trade deadline and after the season.

My issue with your take F500ONE is that you're attempting to make coming to NY sound unattractive even tho we have money, a Pick, Melo, Phil and a fresh start in a new and big city may just look more attractive for a guy like Monroe or Jackson. If you were a young rising talent why wouldn't you want to be a starter in NY for years to come?

That means absolutely no Shumpert{I'm Good There]

Jackson is not a 2 guard, would not work in this system

New York hasn't proven to be the super attraction

Even when we had a clean slate in 2010

Players do not want to put up with the tumbling elephants

Fire breather, Lions jumping through rings of fire,

And hire wire Trapeze acts, yes the circus isn't as chaotic

But there's always the Melo affect, perception, and New York Media