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OT: Hawks Selling Team Because of "Offensive" Emails...
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DrAlphaeus
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9/13/2014  3:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2014  3:11 PM
I want to bring this thread back on topic, and not spiral into geopolitics, because I think it's an interesting topic about the league, the media, and race relations.

The OP was about Levenson. His comments are pretty innocuous compared to Ferry in my opinion. Here is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's take on it from a few days ago:

http://time.com/3296175/bruce-levenson-atlanta-hawks-racist-email-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Bruce Levenson Isn’t a Racist; He’s a Businessman
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar @kaj33 Sept. 8, 2014

Sure, there are assumptions he makes that are cringeworthy—but the questions about how to attract more white fans were entirely reasonable.

Well, the pitchforks are already sharpened and the torches lit anyway, so rather than let them go to waste, why not drag another so-called racist before the court of public opinion and see how much ratings-grabbing, head-shaking and race-shaming we can squeeze out of it? After all, the media got so much gleeful, hand-wringing mileage out of Don Sterling and Michael Brown.

The only problem is that Atlanta Hawks controlling owner Bruce Levenson is no Donald Sterling. Nor is his email racist. In fact, his worst crime is misguided white guilt.

I read Levenson’s email. Here’s what I concluded: Levenson is a businessman asking reasonable questions about how to put customers in seats. In the email, addressed to Hawks president Danny Ferry, Levenson wonders whether (according to his observations) the emphasis on hip-hop and gospel music and the fact that the cheerleaders are black, the bars are filled with 90% blacks, kiss cams focus on black fans and time-out contestants are always black has an effect on keeping away white fans.

Seems reasonable to ask those questions. If his arena was filled mostly with whites and he wanted to attract blacks, wouldn’t he be asking how they could de-emphasize white culture and bias toward white contestants and cheerleaders? Don’t you think every corporation in America that is trying to attract a more diverse customer base is discussing how to feature more blacks or Asians or Latinos in their TV ads?

Back when the original Law & Order first launched, there was a cast shake-up that added more women, reportedly in an effort to attract more female viewers. MTV shows like Finding Carter and Teen Wolf can’t get through an emotional scene without a pop song coming in to sing to the viewer what they should be feeling, because that’s what their demographic wants. Car companies hire specialized advertising agencies to create ads to appeal specifically to women, blacks and Latinos. That’s business.

Sure, there are a few assumptions he makes that make me cringe a little. For example: “My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a significant season ticket base.” On the other hand, I have no evidence that he’s wrong on either count. Even if he is, the question still needed to be raised, because racism is a realistic possibility as to why whites in Atlanta may not be coming.

To Levenson’s credit, in that same paragraph, he dismisses fans who complained about the arena’s site as code for racist fear that “there are too many blacks at the games.” He further decries the white perception that even though the percentage of blacks in attendance had lessened, they still feel it’s higher and therefore somehow threatening. His outrage seems authentic.

Businesspeople should have the right to wonder how to appeal to diverse groups in order to increase business. They should even be able to make minor insensitive gaffes if there is no obvious animosity or racist intent. This is a business email that is pretty harmless in terms of insulting anyone — and pretty fascinating in terms of seeing how the business of running a team really works.

The thing that makes me mad is that Levenson was too quick to rend his clothing and shout mea culpa. In his apology, he wrote, “By focusing on race, I also sent the unintentional and hurtful message that our white fans are more valuable than our black fans.” But that’s not the message in the email at all. If the seats had been filled, even if by all blacks, the email wouldn’t have been written. He wasn’t valuing white fans over blacks; he was trying to figure out a way to change what he thought was the white perception in Atlanta so he could sell more tickets. That’s his job.

Abdul-Jabbar is a six-time NBA champion and league Most Valuable Player. Follow him on Twitter (@KAJ33) and Facebook (facebook.com/KAJ). He also writes a weekly column for the L.A. Register.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
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CrushAlot
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9/13/2014  3:12 PM
Doc, I believe we have talked about alternative ways to watch Knick games. Check this site out. A lot of good stuff has been written about it and its really inexpensive.
http://www4.ballstreams.com/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
DrAlphaeus
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9/13/2014  3:16 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Doc, I believe we have talked about alternative ways to watch Knick games. Check this site out. A lot of good stuff has been written about it and its really inexpensive.
http://www4.ballstreams.com/

Haha... thanks... OT but thanks

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
DrAlphaeus
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9/13/2014  3:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2014  4:11 PM
Kareem basically said what I think most of us said on page 1 of this thread: many of us weren't offended by what Levenson said. Dubious and uncomfortable about his premises perhaps, but the context seemed like a demographic marketing discussion typical of a US entertainment business. And it seemed weird that Levenson would sell his stake over something like that.

But in this article in the Post about Melo's take on the Hawks — http://nypost.com/2014/09/13/melo-on-hawks-nobody-would-want-to-go-there-after-racism-uproar/ — I saw this quote:

The Hawks franchise has been under fire after the Hawks and the NBA announced Sunday morning that the team’s majority owner, Bruce Levenson, was selling his controlling interest in the franchise after an internal investigation uncovered a racist email he sent to other team executives in 2012. That investigation began after general manager Danny Ferry said on a conference call with the team’s ownership group in June that potential free agent target Luol Deng, “He’s got some African in him. And I don’t say that in a bad way.”

So my beef with that quote is that I think the debate is still out about Levenson's email being "racist". Sure, the email was about race, but you'd think that they could have spared a couple more words to more accurately describe the contents of that email. But that's the media for you I guess. So let me try to do better:

It seems like the sequence of events was:
- On June 6, Hawks GM Danny Ferry makes the comments about Deng on a conference call with Hawks management and ownership.
- June 12, minority partner Michael Gearson writes majority owner & NBA Governor Bruce Levenson asking for him to act on Ferry's comments by requesting Ferry's resignation or firing him.
- This prompts the ownership group to hire an "Atlanta law firm to perform an investigation, which included 19 interviews and a review of more than 24,000 documents, according to the team."
- That is how Levenson's email came out, and I guess since he was very vocal about Sterling's ouster earlier this year, he felt he needed to lead by example.
- After Levenson's intentions to sell goes public, all the other news about the Ferry call tumbled out in confusing chunks.
- Yesterday, Danny Ferry has been placed on "a indefinite leave of absence" http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/hawks/2014/09/12/danny-ferry-indefinite-leave-of-absence-atlanta-racist-scouting-report/15527829/
Timeline source: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11486641/atlanta-hawks-upheaval-3-months-making

I think it is a shame that Levenson felt the need to sell, but maybe he just knew what was coming down the pike and didn't want to get hit. I think Ferry's comments were based in stereotypes about Africans immigrants, were more egregious than Levenson's, and particularly foolish since they were on a conference call that was being recorded. Plus, it didn't make any goddamn sense. He says "he's got some African in him" and then says "not in a bad way" but then starts talking about his perceived faults. So obviously, he meant in it in a bad way, whether or not he's reading someone else's comments — and for all we know this alleged scout could be African-American because like I said upthread, beef between US blacks, Africans, and black West Indians is a real thing. Is it worth him losing his job? Not sure, but as a Knicks fan, the more Eastern Conference teams in chaos, the better for us!

I just pulled the Knicks card.

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knickscity
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9/13/2014  6:14 PM
There really is no levels of which is worse. The Hawks took some black eyes in this and Levenson spearheaded it. His employees felt empowered to convey racially charged speech because they saw him do it. He had to go. melo is right...there is no place for this.
NardDogNation
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9/13/2014  6:24 PM
If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.
DrAlphaeus
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9/13/2014  6:28 PM
knickscity wrote:There really is no levels of which is worse. The Hawks took some black eyes in this and Levenson spearheaded it. His employees felt empowered to convey racially charged speech because they saw him do it. He had to go. melo is right...there is no place for this.

That's a good point. Leaders and managers are responsible for the corporate culture and effect on profits.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
smackeddog
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9/14/2014  3:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/14/2014  12:41 PM
NardDogNation wrote:If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.

No, but if at work I'm asked to research some potential new employees, and one of my researchers hands me a report on one of them with some racist cuss words used to describe the person, and I then read the report, wait a few days, then at the company meeting (when we're deciding who to hire) relay those racist cuss word, it's not only an issue but I'm an idiot!

knickscity
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9/14/2014  11:51 AM
NardDogNation wrote:If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.

Depends on where you're reading the book. Just reading to yourself...fine. Reading it publicly or in front of people who likely will find it offensive....not fine.

You can read bomb making books for all I care, in your own privacy.....now read it on a NYC subway during rush hour, and see what happens next.

The thing is Ferry wasnt reading a "book"...he was reading someones report, that he could have very well asked his bosses and peers if it was ok to convey this. but no, he felt ok to do it, because he knew his boss would have no issue (Levenson).

Nalod
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9/14/2014  12:05 PM
Levenson keeps to himself, Ferry reading of an others work is not made public. Gearson, another parter hates ferry and made it public.

Who wrote the scouting report?

F500ONE
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9/14/2014  1:58 PM
Masai Ujuri on Ferry


Ujiri goes on to reveal he had spoken with Ferry, and hints at a complicated situation inside the Hawks organization. He then goes on to say he believes Ferry is a good man who made a bad mistake.


Danny’s mistake will remain tied to him for a long time. What he’s said can’t be unsaid, but we must measure his heart. If he has made an honest, isolated error, we should forgive and move on.

smackeddog
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9/14/2014  2:15 PM
Nalod wrote:Levenson keeps to himself, Ferry reading of an others work is not made public. Gearson, another parter hates ferry and made it public.

Who wrote the scouting report?

Someone who used to work for the Cavs when Deng was there, but no longer does. Basically the hints are it was the GM they fired in the middle of last season.

NardDogNation
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9/14/2014  2:34 PM
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.

No, but if at work I'm asked to research some potential new employees, and one of my researchers hands me a report on one of them with some racist cuss words used to describe the person, and I then read the report, wait a few days, then at the company meeting (when we're deciding who to hire) relay those racist cuss word, it's not only an issue but I'm an idiot!

We can all agree that the scouting report had racist overtures but this is a case of killing the messenger. More importantly, just because it was racist doesn't mean that there wasn't some value to be found in the report. If you take away all the anti-African/Black comments, you can determine that the author of it is trying to convey the image of Loul Deng being two-faced, which may be off-base or spot-on; we don't know. What we do know is that its the only critique of the 5 page document that portrayed Loul Deng as being something other than an upstanding individual of high character. For the sake of objectivity and the fact that it was the most recent review of Loul, I don't know if you can simply bury it. Maybe Ferry should've added a disclaimer, I don't know, but he's not the bad guy in all of this...the mother****er from the Cavs (surprise, surprise!) who wrote it, is.

NardDogNation
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9/14/2014  2:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/14/2014  2:42 PM
knickscity wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.

Depends on where you're reading the book. Just reading to yourself...fine. Reading it publicly or in front of people who likely will find it offensive....not fine.

You can read bomb making books for all I care, in your own privacy.....now read it on a NYC subway during rush hour, and see what happens next.

The thing is Ferry wasnt reading a "book"...he was reading someones report, that he could have very well asked his bosses and peers if it was ok to convey this. but no, he felt ok to do it, because he knew his boss would have no issue (Levenson).

Why would Ferry expect there to be an issue? He didn't write the report! More importantly, he wasn't reading it aloud at a press conference for all to hear or in some kind of attempt to recruit racists. He was simply relaying the reports that the owners requested to hear. The only reason this became an issue is because one of the minority owners is a **** and pulled a power move to oust a GM he didn't particularly like (Danny Ferry) and potentially grab more ownership shares with Levenson out of the way.

knickscity
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9/14/2014  3:11 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
knickscity wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:If you read aloud some of the racist dialogue in Huckleberry Finn, does that make you racist as well? I think its ridiculous that Ferry is being punished for something someone else said.

Depends on where you're reading the book. Just reading to yourself...fine. Reading it publicly or in front of people who likely will find it offensive....not fine.

You can read bomb making books for all I care, in your own privacy.....now read it on a NYC subway during rush hour, and see what happens next.

The thing is Ferry wasnt reading a "book"...he was reading someones report, that he could have very well asked his bosses and peers if it was ok to convey this. but no, he felt ok to do it, because he knew his boss would have no issue (Levenson).

Why would Ferry expect there to be an issue? He didn't write the report! More importantly, he wasn't reading it aloud at a press conference for all to hear or in some kind of attempt to recruit racists. He was simply relaying the reports that the owners requested to hear. The only reason this became an issue is because one of the minority owners is a **** and pulled a power move to oust a GM he didn't particularly like (Danny Ferry) and potentially grab more ownership shares with Levenson out of the way.


Since he didnt write it, there's no issue? And maybe you arent aware but there is an audio of Ferry and he isnt reading the report word for word, he actually summarized and bullet pointed his report back to the ownership group and others. To actually be dumb enough to do this is more than enough reason to be fired.
OT: Hawks Selling Team Because of "Offensive" Emails...

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