I kid. I recognize Amar'e flaws. I'm not a super fan boy but I always root for Fla boys. I also like to pick at the poor Amar'e crowd. The guy is a finger pointer incapable of self criticism.

yellowboy90 wrote:Wait what, as bad as Melo? Booooo Amar'e. Why don't you play d or rebound?

I kid. I recognize Amar'e flaws. I'm not a super fan boy but I always root for Fla boys. I also like to pick at the poor Amar'e crowd. The guy is a finger pointer incapable of self criticism.

just like his diehards

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

How can you defend his RPM's? The STAT that you sold as "the all new advanced stat"? It has him at 425 lowest out of 430 players.

And you know that he only goes to the line 5.5 times a game as a knick?

if you want to be absolutely fair you will need to look at that figure when he was a phoenix suns player.

Why? That's not the player we have

because of the premise i introduced in my initial response to reinman this morning.

Lets stick to 100 million dollar KNICK Amare. Phoenix Amare no longer exists nor does Phoenix Nash.

This is why I want to move away from signing players who either/////

Need to play with a specific type of talent

Need to play in a specific type of system

Get me Dirk-Duncan-Noah type talent, where it doesn't matter who you put on the floor with them nor system

You could throw in a prime Nash but as you and myself stated, we were pretty much past prime Nash

I can think of role players to a lesser extent where this is applicable

I agree. Would Noah on this team.

Players like D West and Milsap would be middle tier guys that are very team oriented.

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

How can you defend his RPM's? The STAT that you sold as "the all new advanced stat"? It has him at 425 lowest out of 430 players.

And you know that he only goes to the line 5.5 times a game as a knick?

if you want to be absolutely fair you will need to look at that figure when he was a phoenix suns player.

Why? That's not the player we have

because of the premise i introduced in my initial response to reinman this morning.

Lets stick to 100 million dollar KNICK Amare. Phoenix Amare no longer exists nor does Phoenix Nash.

This is why I want to move away from signing players who either/////

Need to play with a specific type of talent

Need to play in a specific type of system

Get me Dirk-Duncan-Noah type talent, where it doesn't matter who you put on the floor with them nor system

You could throw in a prime Nash but as you and myself stated, we were pretty much past prime Nash

I can think of role players to a lesser extent where this is applicable

System is everything, those players you mention all play in a system. Certain players play better in certain systems. Thats one of the main reason Nash is a 2 time MVP, with super efficient numbers the yr he earned it.

Of course it would be splendid to get players who can adapt to any style, but thats really not realistic, or just flat out rare.

I rather put together a team of specialist, as oppose to having a team full of players that are ok in doing everything.

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

Pretty decent breakdown but being fair

In this abridgment of yours is this principally based or a result of what we ended up with

The reason I ask, we didn't have any point guard close to Nash when acquiring Amar'e

The opportunities down the road could have produced an over the hill Nash

Not a diligent way to build a team

It didn't take long for Phx to recover

Once they moved on from Amar'e and Nash

Only 1 true losing season

We may have had a shot at Chris Paul////

Very slim chance and at what cost

What players wouldn't have benefited playing with Nash and CP3

Since we're retroflecting

I don't think it would have taken $80mil to resign David Lee

Wouldn't he have benefited playing with Nash or CP3, much cheaper than Amar'e for sure

Aren't his usage rates just as good, hasn't he been better

As much as I hate to say this, he's probably a better match to play with Melo

Bottomline Amar'e and Melo were disastrous signings

No matter how much the metrics are massaged, fondled, and groped

you seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to b-ball-- and now that tkf has left the building, you are one of several recent arrivals i can have a rational dialogue with.

lets have a look at the crux of your post: david lee vis a vis amare is a non-starter and here's why-- the dolan mandate in terms of putting asses in seats required that a name, even one one as deeply flawed as amare, be acquired. this in the wake "the decision." would it have been better to have an ambidextrous finisher and willing passer on the team for far less money than stat? OF COURSE. but this was dolan's team lock stock and two smoking barrels. please do not look past this fact on the ground.

so far as the numbers with david lee compared to stat-- to be frank it was a wash at best but with an edge to lee-- however with the dolan mandate of acquiring a marque name it could not happen. i also would say that lee seemed a tad selfish at times with the ball, while stoudemire was merely incapable.

finally who is the better match to play with melo? it's a trick question because nobody has been a "better match" with a chemistry killer like melo!

question for you or anyone else with the guts: who has had the best chemistry with carmelo anthony?!?

First, Amar'e wasn't acquired "in the wake" of the Decision ('in the wake of' means 'after', genius), he was signed before Lebron signed, as a (failed) attempt to lure Lebron to NY.

Second, if you are among those that think that DLee > Amar'e, overall, then you prove yourself to be unqualified to evaluate basketball players. See ya! Head to whereever your boy left to. Peace.

nychamp wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

Pretty decent breakdown but being fair

In this abridgment of yours is this principally based or a result of what we ended up with

The reason I ask, we didn't have any point guard close to Nash when acquiring Amar'e

The opportunities down the road could have produced an over the hill Nash

Not a diligent way to build a team

It didn't take long for Phx to recover

Once they moved on from Amar'e and Nash

Only 1 true losing season

We may have had a shot at Chris Paul////

Very slim chance and at what cost

What players wouldn't have benefited playing with Nash and CP3

Since we're retroflecting

I don't think it would have taken $80mil to resign David Lee

Wouldn't he have benefited playing with Nash or CP3, much cheaper than Amar'e for sure

Aren't his usage rates just as good, hasn't he been better

As much as I hate to say this, he's probably a better match to play with Melo

Bottomline Amar'e and Melo were disastrous signings

No matter how much the metrics are massaged, fondled, and groped

you seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to b-ball-- and now that tkf has left the building, you are one of several recent arrivals i can have a rational dialogue with.

lets have a look at the crux of your post: david lee vis a vis amare is a non-starter and here's why-- the dolan mandate in terms of putting asses in seats required that a name, even one one as deeply flawed as amare, be acquired. this in the wake "the decision." would it have been better to have an ambidextrous finisher and willing passer on the team for far less money than stat? OF COURSE. but this was dolan's team lock stock and two smoking barrels. please do not look past this fact on the ground.

so far as the numbers with david lee compared to stat-- to be frank it was a wash at best but with an edge to lee-- however with the dolan mandate of acquiring a marque name it could not happen. i also would say that lee seemed a tad selfish at times with the ball, while stoudemire was merely incapable.

finally who is the better match to play with melo? it's a trick question because nobody has been a "better match" with a chemistry killer like melo!

question for you or anyone else with the guts: who has had the best chemistry with carmelo anthony?!?

First, Amar'e wasn't acquired "in the wake" of the Decision ('in the wake of' means 'after', genius), he was signed before Lebron signed, as a (failed) attempt to lure Lebron to NY.

Second, if you are among those that think that DLee > Amar'e, overall, then you prove yourself to be unqualified to evaluate basketball players. See ya! Head to whereever your boy left to. Peace.

you're right. amare was acquired prior to lebron, and as a name or lure apropos of nothing else. not a bright move-- but in its utter dimness it still it has dolan's paw prints all over it-- yes or no? so if the answer is yes, and your answer should be "yes"-- then we are still stuck with the question of who is he better player to build a team with, and at what price tag.

are you sure you want to assert that the price we paid for amare would be worth more than retaining david lee? remember... a player is great at one price and bad at another.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nychamp wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

Pretty decent breakdown but being fair

In this abridgment of yours is this principally based or a result of what we ended up with

The reason I ask, we didn't have any point guard close to Nash when acquiring Amar'e

The opportunities down the road could have produced an over the hill Nash

Not a diligent way to build a team

It didn't take long for Phx to recover

Once they moved on from Amar'e and Nash

Only 1 true losing season

We may have had a shot at Chris Paul////

Very slim chance and at what cost

What players wouldn't have benefited playing with Nash and CP3

Since we're retroflecting

I don't think it would have taken $80mil to resign David Lee

Wouldn't he have benefited playing with Nash or CP3, much cheaper than Amar'e for sure

Aren't his usage rates just as good, hasn't he been better

As much as I hate to say this, he's probably a better match to play with Melo

Bottomline Amar'e and Melo were disastrous signings

No matter how much the metrics are massaged, fondled, and groped

you seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to b-ball-- and now that tkf has left the building, you are one of several recent arrivals i can have a rational dialogue with.

lets have a look at the crux of your post: david lee vis a vis amare is a non-starter and here's why-- the dolan mandate in terms of putting asses in seats required that a name, even one one as deeply flawed as amare, be acquired. this in the wake "the decision." would it have been better to have an ambidextrous finisher and willing passer on the team for far less money than stat? OF COURSE. but this was dolan's team lock stock and two smoking barrels. please do not look past this fact on the ground.

so far as the numbers with david lee compared to stat-- to be frank it was a wash at best but with an edge to lee-- however with the dolan mandate of acquiring a marque name it could not happen. i also would say that lee seemed a tad selfish at times with the ball, while stoudemire was merely incapable.

finally who is the better match to play with melo? it's a trick question because nobody has been a "better match" with a chemistry killer like melo!

question for you or anyone else with the guts: who has had the best chemistry with carmelo anthony?!?

First, Amar'e wasn't acquired "in the wake" of the Decision ('in the wake of' means 'after', genius), he was signed before Lebron signed, as a (failed) attempt to lure Lebron to NY.

Second, if you are among those that think that DLee > Amar'e, overall, then you prove yourself to be unqualified to evaluate basketball players. See ya! Head to whereever your boy left to. Peace.

Post-2010 (the period under discussion), Lee has been much better than Amare

Much better and much cheaper too.

dk7th wrote:

nychamp wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:2.7 turnovers per game vs 1.5 assists.

2.7 is defined as MR Turnover? Dude please.

Cant Imagine how you felt about Patrick Ewing back in the day.

Dude you please.

I thought that his assist -> turnover ratio sucked.

Are you saying that Amare did not have a turnover problem? Never saw him go 1 on 5 and turn the ball over?

Are you one of those guys that kill Melo for what the way he pissed that day but are blind to anything negative about amare? If yes, I will move along ... no patience for blind extremism.

Actually I dont rate SCORERS by their assists to turnovers....it's a dumb way to rate them.

But if under 3 is turnovcer prone or even a problem in your book, your book is best left closed.

My issues with Amare is his defense, outside of that i have none.

My issue with melo is his salary when he is not worth the price on the court, but in his case, if he shoots 43% from the field....yeah he should pass. When he hits over 50% for his CAREER like Amare does no matter when he plays....he aint gotta pass at all.

Inferring that I rate players by assist to turnovers is dumb in itself. I did not state that.

Melo shoots 43%?

If your only issue with Amare is defense then you know very little about basketball. I am assuming that you then probably have more issues with Amare other than defense. HOW ABOUT REBOUNDING? Fukk passing ... that is only for losers. Did you know that his USG -> Assists ratio is one of the worst possible? Oh right ... Ewing didn't pass either (which happens to be his biggest asterisk) so its perfect.

the assists issue only became viable when he was no longer being set up as a pick and roll finisher by one of he truly great pick and roll players. i know there was more to stoudemire's game than that of a finisher in phoenix, but when he came to new york and began to play with inferior point guards AND he began to incorporate more elbow plays, the need to pass the rock had become increasingly vital for team success.

to his credit his assist percentage almost doubled his first half of 2011-2012, even as his usage jumped 4 points or so. and his assists also were the highest of his career. he was trying, but he just wasn't/isn't good enough in this capacity. and of course his TS% plummeted to a barely acceptable 56.5%. hardly mvp numbers to my mind and yet he was being touted as such by many. again, the numbers do not support this, nor did my eyes at the time.

bottom line he was never meant to be the type of player that he was trying to be his first 50 games as a knick. for that he would have needed nash here or chris paul. that way his strengths are maximalized and his profound weaknesses are masked just enough for him to be a positive-sum player. this is one of the reasons (among several) why i count the melo trade as more a betrayal than a boon-- to not only stoudemire but also d'antoni and several role players like fields, for instance.

so i'll take a guy who is primarily a finisher with a 62%TS on a team, especially when he gets to the line 7-8 times a game. free throws are a big deal in the playoffs.

Pretty decent breakdown but being fair

In this abridgment of yours is this principally based or a result of what we ended up with

The reason I ask, we didn't have any point guard close to Nash when acquiring Amar'e

The opportunities down the road could have produced an over the hill Nash

Not a diligent way to build a team

It didn't take long for Phx to recover

Once they moved on from Amar'e and Nash

Only 1 true losing season

We may have had a shot at Chris Paul////

Very slim chance and at what cost

What players wouldn't have benefited playing with Nash and CP3

Since we're retroflecting

I don't think it would have taken $80mil to resign David Lee

Wouldn't he have benefited playing with Nash or CP3, much cheaper than Amar'e for sure

Aren't his usage rates just as good, hasn't he been better

As much as I hate to say this, he's probably a better match to play with Melo

Bottomline Amar'e and Melo were disastrous signings

No matter how much the metrics are massaged, fondled, and groped

you seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to b-ball-- and now that tkf has left the building, you are one of several recent arrivals i can have a rational dialogue with.

lets have a look at the crux of your post: david lee vis a vis amare is a non-starter and here's why-- the dolan mandate in terms of putting asses in seats required that a name, even one one as deeply flawed as amare, be acquired. this in the wake "the decision." would it have been better to have an ambidextrous finisher and willing passer on the team for far less money than stat? OF COURSE. but this was dolan's team lock stock and two smoking barrels. please do not look past this fact on the ground.

so far as the numbers with david lee compared to stat-- to be frank it was a wash at best but with an edge to lee-- however with the dolan mandate of acquiring a marque name it could not happen. i also would say that lee seemed a tad selfish at times with the ball, while stoudemire was merely incapable.

finally who is the better match to play with melo? it's a trick question because nobody has been a "better match" with a chemistry killer like melo!

question for you or anyone else with the guts: who has had the best chemistry with carmelo anthony?!?

First, Amar'e wasn't acquired "in the wake" of the Decision ('in the wake of' means 'after', genius), he was signed before Lebron signed, as a (failed) attempt to lure Lebron to NY.

Second, if you are among those that think that DLee > Amar'e, overall, then you prove yourself to be unqualified to evaluate basketball players. See ya! Head to whereever your boy left to. Peace.

you're right. amare was acquired prior to lebron, and as a name or lure apropos of nothing else. not a bright move-- but in its utter dimness it still it has dolan's paw prints all over it-- yes or no? so if the answer is yes, and your answer should be "yes"-- then we are still stuck with the question of who is he better player to build a team with, and at what price tag.

are you sure you want to assert that the price we paid for amare would be worth more than retaining david lee? remember... a player is great at one price and bad at another.

Walsh was full of quotables

That's a classic because it's so true

We're also talking about pieces going forward

Which Lee has proven to better since 2010

More importantly the better player to pair with other players

At a more palatable price tag

I guess some fans mimic Dolan in the end

The name, the cache, star power///// is a lust of disgust

Jmpasq wrote:

dk7th wrote:

you seem to have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to b-ball-- and now that tkf has left the building, you are one of several recent arrivals i can have a rational dialogue with.

lets have a look at the crux of your post: david lee vis a vis amare is a non-starter and here's why-- the dolan mandate in terms of putting asses in seats required that a name, even one one as deeply flawed as amare, be acquired. this in the wake "the decision." would it have been better to have an ambidextrous finisher and willing passer on the team for far less money than stat? OF COURSE. but this was dolan's team lock stock and two smoking barrels. please do not look past this fact on the ground.

so far as the numbers with david lee compared to stat-- to be frank it was a wash at best but with an edge to lee-- however with the dolan mandate of acquiring a marque name it could not happen. i also would say that lee seemed a tad selfish at times with the ball, while stoudemire was merely incapable.

finally who is the better match to play with melo? it's a trick question because nobody has been a "better match" with a chemistry killer like melo!

question for you or anyone else with the guts: who has had the best chemistry with carmelo anthony?!?

So the mandate was to Starphuch

JR Smith has chemistry with Melo, Billups, Kenyon Martin mmmmm let me think ........

Im worried we may see this route taken again next offseason when we go with the 1 big name instead of adding 2 or 3 players that can be just as or 80% of the production as the name at a 1/3 of the price

people use this term "starphuch" a lot. i have only a vague idea of what it means. is it merely chasing a big name to ut azzes in seats regardless of a genuine building plan? to get a name regardless of whether you can actually build around him?

seems like unless you are someone like billups (finals MVP) or kidd you don't get much cooperation from anthony. so far as chemistry, i am not sure you can say the same thing about martin or smith in terms of melo. martin was mostly a shell here and i can't recall if he spent significant minutes playing with melo. smith? he's a streetballer-- hard to imagine any chemistry there wither, since i see melo as pretty much a streetballer as well. you won't win games in the playoffs taking turns going one-on-one.

your last paragraph-- who is potentially available who is a "name?" never mind the starphuch quotient. who will even be out there TO starphuch?