nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think are a very cynical bunch of ass holes that reside on UK. It's easy to make jokes and be negative. So far the Negative Nancy Doubters have contributed very little to this forum. If you have a point to make that actually refutes the evidence presented then post that. We don't need your lame jokes and meaningless posts. Sure Dolan made an offer to Phil and after a lot of assurances that Dolan wouldn't interfere Phil finally accepted. You wanna give Dolan some credit for that. Fine. Still doesn't change the actual job of making day to day BB decisions which is what my point was. Dolan is no longer making the BB decisions as he's relinquished those duties to Phil. Thus Phil has replaced Dolan in that role. No more Dolan literally negotiation trades. So if you smart asses are done F'n up the thread with your nonsense lets move on to more substantive posts.

Since you guys are so down on Calderon and his value to the team why not present your rationale for why he's not a major upgrade over Felton?

Dime Magazine:

16. JOSE CALDERON
Surprised he’s on the list? You shouldn’t be. The league-leader in three-point percentage last year (46.1) also boasted the sixth-highest assists per game (8.6). Yes, he might have a hard time defending nearly anyone (really, he is an atrocious defender) and yes, he probably didn’t deserve a four-year contract worth a shade under $30 million at the ripe age of 32. But he is one of the league’s best game/floor managers, not to mention the holder of the highest career free throw percentage ever in a season (98.1). He might not be an explosive athlete, but Calderon is a smart vet who rarely makes mistakes.

CBS Sports:

16. Brandon Knight, MIL	73.05	73.05	+0.00	72	33.3	17.9	3.5	4.9	42.2	80.2
17. Reggie Jackson, OKC	72.15	72.15	+0.00	80	28.5	13.1	3.9	4.1	44.0	89.3
18. Jose Calderon, DAL	71.64	71.64	+0.00	81	30.5	11.4	2.4	4.7	45.6	82.5

Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards

RK  PLAYER	        GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	PER	
1   Pablo Prigioni, NY	66	19.4	.642	47.1	12.4	10.8	13.02	
2   Stephen Curry, GS	78	36.5	.610	26.7	11.8	28.2	24.13	
3   Jose Calderon, DAL	81	30.5	.596	30.0	8.2	16.4	15.25	
4   Patty Mills, SA	81	18.9	.588	16.3	6.9	21.2	18.80	
5   Chris Paul, LAC	62	35.0	.580	36.2	7.9	25.0	25.98

Sporting News - Sean Deveney

14 Jose Calderon, Mavericks

Numbers: 11.3 points, 7.1 assists, 2.4 rebounds.

There is no question as to why Calderon cracks this list—he was incredible from the 3-point line last year. Over the course of his career, Calderon has been a good perimeter shooter, making 38.1 percent from the arc, but he was outstanding in his first 45 games, with Toronto, making 42.9 percent.

After arriving in Detroit, though, Calderon went bonkers, making 52.0 percent of his 3s and finishing with a league-best 46.1 percent mark. He is 32, and though he is still a very good playmaker, he could stay in the league for a long time yet if he keeps shooting that way.

Can anyone find similar rankings for Felton? Anyone saying such positive things about Felton anywhere? As i've said Jose has his flaws, but in terms of helping this team in areas that we need this year he is an improvement over Felton and should be able to execute what Phil and Fish want this team to do. He fits the Triangle and he's a good leader. The key will be to find a way to minimize his poor defensive abilities. If they can do that we have a very good chance for success.

Can you show me the footage of calderon being the starting point guard for a 54 win team like felton was?

I'll even take game logs.

Thanks in advance.

Jose started last year for a Dallas team that took the Champion Spurs to 7 games. I don't think your point is that impressive by itself. Jose played well in the regular season and the playoffs against the toughest competition in the league.

                  GP  MPG   FGM-FGA  FG%   3PM-3PA  3P%	  FTM-FTA  FT%	 RPG  APG  BLKPG  STLPG	 PFPG  TOPG  PPG
13-14 Reg Season  81  30.5  4.2-9.2  .456  2.4-5.2  .449  0.6-0.8  .825	 2.4  4.7  0.1	  0.9	 1.7   1.3   11.4
13-14 Postseason  7   27.3  4.3-9.3  .462  1.6-3.3  .478  0.1-0.1  1.000 1.3  4.4  0.0	  0.1	 2.3   1.0   10.3

Did they win 54 games, win their divsion and make it to the second round?

A simple yes or no......

it's not hard to type three letters or just two.

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team. We need good players who are good in the locker room and think Team 1st. Jose will be good for our young developing players. He'll be good for our vets. There's no reason to be negative about his presence on this team. Fighting over Jose's value to this team vs Felton is foolish. You know full well that Felton is not on Jose's level as a player. Just like Dolan is not equal to Phil and Fish is a better fit for this team than Woody. Fish may be inexperienced but that doesn't mean he's not qualified.

Phil, Fish and Jose gives this team a chain of command that we can trust to be in sync. Jose doesn't have some personal agenda. he will carry out the game plan that Phil and Fish lay out for the team. This is a huge change for this franchise. We haven't had this kind of unison in a long time. It will make a difference in how this team is prepared to play and how it executes every night. They may need time to get everyone coached up and on track, but in the end it's a better start than we had last year with Dolan, Woody and Felton dragging the team down. No more games. Just Basketball.

What evidence? Unless I'm mistaken no games have been played.

Dude, haven't you seen the 5 million posts indicating that Calderon is a top 18 PG!

Lets be fair, I've counted 4 million and a thread blaming Felton and Woodson for the season, and Dolan too.

Just wondering though since we're discussing root causes.....does Dolan get praised now, since he's the ROOT of Phil being here?

I think anyone who loves how the off-season is going would have to give Dolan some credit

Agreed, but I'm trying to establish roots here. Dolan would be the root at this point, but I see no praise for him.

Had Phil executed a trade for Amar'e, Nix includes him in the root causes

Had Phil executed a trade before the draft with Iman, Nix includes him in the root causes

Reading articles on why Dallas traded Calderon instead of going way back to his lottery Raptor days///

You'll discover he wasn't ELITE according to them

I think Calderon can contribute positively in our system

Showing equality in assessing his play in comparison to Felton/////

I'm not going to compare 2013-2014 Calderon to 2013-2014 Felton

I'll question if Calderon can prove to be significantly better than 2012-2013 Felton[54 win season Felton]

For this is the season, our current team is gauged for peak success.

If I go back further to rival Calderon Raptor yrs////

Can Calderon best 2010-2011 Felton

We'll need such valued play from Calderon in order to have a successful season, along with others doing their part

Understood.

I just wanna know is Dolan-Phil-Fish better than Dolan-Grunwald-Woodson?

Not sure.

A key reason why Dallas traded for Felton there's a chip on his shoulders

The Mavericks hope that Felton’s quest to prove his critics wrong equals a replication of the 2010-11 season, when the 30-year-old lead guard put up near career numbers across the board while averaging 17.1 points, 9.0 assists and 1.8 steals for the Knicks. Coincidentally, the Mavericks will also try to duplicate that season’s success after bringing the first title in franchise history to Dallas, looking to once again climb to the top of the mountain with Felton in the fold.

“You know, I think we’ve had a lot of success over the years of guys that maybe have went through a hard year previously,” Mavs president of basketball operations and GM Donnie Nelson said in regard to the acquisition of Felton. “You know, you look at Jerry Stackhouse when we acquired him. Here’s a guy that a lot of folks probably wouldn’t have touched. Nick Van Exel, you go down the line, and we’ve done a pretty good job of bringing guys like that into the fold and having them buy in.

“I think Raymond has been through some tough times. … It’s no secret that he’s gone through some difficult times in New York. I think the cards are, and if history holds true, we certainly have the kind of locker room that has done good with those kinds of players in the past. I hope that Raymond will follow suit.”

But, in order to maximize Felton’s potential in a Mavericks uniform, both he and the team may have to put more on the broad shoulders of 12-time All-Star Dirk Nowitzki.

Rallying back from his own injury-riddled season, Nowitzki returned to All-Star form last year while averaging a team-best 21.7 points per game and 6.2 rebounds in his 80 games. Nowitzki also came just shy of another 50-40-90 campaign, connecting on 49.7 percent from the field, 39.8 percent from 3-point range and 89.9 percent at the free-throw line.

Nowitzki’s patented offensive game should now bring out the best in Felton as the Mavericks try to get back into championship contention.

“I mean, as a point guard, it’s always great to have a big man that can really shoot the ball the way that he does,” Felton said with excitement as he anxiously awaits playing alongside Nowitzki. “Dirk has always been one of my favorite players in the NBA. So, to get an opportunity to actually play with him, it’s going to be fun. And then, for me, it’s just my job to try to make things easier for him; try to penetrate and make his guy try to help. Get inside the paint and try to make things easier as possible for him as well.”

A key reason Knicks trade for Felton there was a chip on his shoulders

GREENBURGH N.Y. -- Carmelo Anthony's feeling pretty comfortable with Ray Felton at point guard so far.

"It's his show. The ball is in his hands. He gets the ball, we space out, we do what we have to do," Anthony said after the Knicks scrimmage on Monday. "It makes things a lot more easier out there."

Last season, with the Knicks point guard situation unsettled at first and then when Jeremy Lin took over, Anthony was asked at times to bring the ball up the floor and get the Knicks into their offense.

That won't be the case this year, as long as Felton and veteran backup Jason Kidd stay healthy.

"It settles everything down for myself (and) for everybody," Anthony said, noting that he and his teammates can operate where they are most comfortable. "They can be that much (more) effective rather than me trying to bring the ball up the court, make a play for my teammates [or] for myself, and try to do everything. I'd rather just play off of Raymond and do what I've got to do and do what I do best."

The Knicks acquired Felton over the summer after deciding not to match Houston's three-year $25.1 million offer sheet to Jeremy Lin.

Tyson Chandler said over the weekend that he thinks the duo of Felton and veteran backup Jason Kidd will make it easier on the front line of Anthony, himself and Amare Stoudemire.

He noted that Lin, because of his lack of experience, wasn't as effective at getting the Knicks in the proper spots to be effective.

"Jeremy was a young point guard who was inexperienced, who brought a great light to the organization. But as far as being able to run the offense and putting players in the right position he just wasn't there. We got some veteran point guards that are capable of doing that," Chandler told reporters on Friday.

Prior to Lin's ascent, the Knicks struggled to find a capable playmaker. Toney Douglas was too inexperienced and Baron Davis was injured.

This year, with a healthy Felton and Kidd playing from the first day of training camp, things are different, according to Chandler.

"The intensity is way up and also there's also calmness when we're coming downcourt, with the point guards getting things under control and making sure we get good shots every possession," Chandler said.

"I think the toughest thing last year was our best players were at the 3, 4 and 5 spots with nobody really to get them the ball in the right places ... This year, with the additions that we got at [point guard], Melo can play his natural role and be a finisher and Amare can do the same thing."

The Knicks, of course, are hoping that Felton can return to the form that he showed in New York in 2010-2011. He averaged 17 points and nine assists per game before being dealt to Denver in the blockbuster trade that brought Anthony to the Knicks.

Felton is coming off of a rough year in Portland in which he was out of shape at the beginning of training camp and struggled to regain form throughout the year. He has vowed to bounce back, saying earlier this month that he's playing this season with a 'big, big' chip on his shoulder.

Does Felton play well with Chips on his shoulders?

I guess it depends what kind of chips right guys/////ha ha ha

Does Dallas reclaim players fairly well without ruining team success?

Yes

I guess we'll see if it works with Felton

Sounds like Nix jumped in Donny Jr's body

It wouldnt suprise me if Felton does good there, the certainly have legit history in ressurecting careers. Despite what our resident delusionist says Felton actually has been more good to the Knicks than bad. He certainly helped the team win it's first division title in how long and 54 games.

Dude had an awful year last season, so did others.

But I want an answer to this "roots" thing.

The roots spread further than you initially projected and we told you this very early on in this thread.

Stop being stubborn and closed minded

Phil must fully exhume the tree if he wants to replant producing new healthy growth

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really too much. It's Ok tho. keep up the faith. Stay Negative Nancy Doubters to the end. No amount of evidence will convince you that you're wrong, so go on in your ignorance. Wallow in it like pigs in mud. Bury your heads in the sand on this issue if you like. It won't change reality. No one is saying Jose is the best PG in the NBA. He's clearly got flaws. His poor D, he's not very athletic and won't attack the hoop like more athletic PG's. He is however, better than Felton and that's a good thing for this team. We need good players who are good in the locker room and think Team 1st. Jose will be good for our young developing players. He'll be good for our vets. There's no reason to be negative about his presence on this team. Fighting over Jose's value to this team vs Felton is foolish. You know full well that Felton is not on Jose's level as a player. Just like Dolan is not equal to Phil and Fish is a better fit for this team than Woody. Fish may be inexperienced but that doesn't mean he's not qualified.

Phil, Fish and Jose gives this team a chain of command that we can trust to be in sync. Jose doesn't have some personal agenda. he will carry out the game plan that Phil and Fish lay out for the team. This is a huge change for this franchise. We haven't had this kind of unison in a long time. It will make a difference in how this team is prepared to play and how it executes every night. They may need time to get everyone coached up and on track, but in the end it's a better start than we had last year with Dolan, Woody and Felton dragging the team down. No more games. Just Basketball.

What evidence? Unless I'm mistaken no games have been played.

Dude, haven't you seen the 5 million posts indicating that Calderon is a top 18 PG!

Lets be fair, I've counted 4 million and a thread blaming Felton and Woodson for the season, and Dolan too.

Just wondering though since we're discussing root causes.....does Dolan get praised now, since he's the ROOT of Phil being here?

I think anyone who loves how the off-season is going would have to give Dolan some credit

Agreed, but I'm trying to establish roots here. Dolan would be the root at this point, but I see no praise for him.

Had Phil executed a trade for Amar'e, Nix includes him in the root causes

Had Phil executed a trade before the draft with Iman, Nix includes him in the root causes

Reading articles on why Dallas traded Calderon instead of going way back to his lottery Raptor days///

You'll discover he wasn't ELITE according to them

I think Calderon can contribute positively in our system

Showing equality in assessing his play in comparison to Felton/////

I'm not going to compare 2013-2014 Calderon to 2013-2014 Felton

I'll question if Calderon can prove to be significantly better than 2012-2013 Felton[54 win season Felton]

For this is the season, our current team is gauged for peak success.

If I go back further to rival Calderon Raptor yrs////

Can Calderon best 2010-2011 Felton

We'll need such valued play from Calderon in order to have a successful season, along with others doing their part

Understood.

I just wanna know is Dolan-Phil-Fish better than Dolan-Grunwald-Woodson?

Not sure.

A key reason why Dallas traded for Felton there's a chip on his shoulders

The Mavericks hope that Felton’s quest to prove his critics wrong equals a replication of the 2010-11 season, when the 30-year-old lead guard put up near career numbers across the board while averaging 17.1 points, 9.0 assists and 1.8 steals for the Knicks. Coincidentally, the Mavericks will also try to duplicate that season’s success after bringing the first title in franchise history to Dallas, looking to once again climb to the top of the mountain with Felton in the fold.

“You know, I think we’ve had a lot of success over the years of guys that maybe have went through a hard year previously,” Mavs president of basketball operations and GM Donnie Nelson said in regard to the acquisition of Felton. “You know, you look at Jerry Stackhouse when we acquired him. Here’s a guy that a lot of folks probably wouldn’t have touched. Nick Van Exel, you go down the line, and we’ve done a pretty good job of bringing guys like that into the fold and having them buy in.

“I think Raymond has been through some tough times. … It’s no secret that he’s gone through some difficult times in New York. I think the cards are, and if history holds true, we certainly have the kind of locker room that has done good with those kinds of players in the past. I hope that Raymond will follow suit.”

But, in order to maximize Felton’s potential in a Mavericks uniform, both he and the team may have to put more on the broad shoulders of 12-time All-Star Dirk Nowitzki.

Rallying back from his own injury-riddled season, Nowitzki returned to All-Star form last year while averaging a team-best 21.7 points per game and 6.2 rebounds in his 80 games. Nowitzki also came just shy of another 50-40-90 campaign, connecting on 49.7 percent from the field, 39.8 percent from 3-point range and 89.9 percent at the free-throw line.

Nowitzki’s patented offensive game should now bring out the best in Felton as the Mavericks try to get back into championship contention.

“I mean, as a point guard, it’s always great to have a big man that can really shoot the ball the way that he does,” Felton said with excitement as he anxiously awaits playing alongside Nowitzki. “Dirk has always been one of my favorite players in the NBA. So, to get an opportunity to actually play with him, it’s going to be fun. And then, for me, it’s just my job to try to make things easier for him; try to penetrate and make his guy try to help. Get inside the paint and try to make things easier as possible for him as well.”

A key reason Knicks trade for Felton there was a chip on his shoulders

GREENBURGH N.Y. -- Carmelo Anthony's feeling pretty comfortable with Ray Felton at point guard so far.

"It's his show. The ball is in his hands. He gets the ball, we space out, we do what we have to do," Anthony said after the Knicks scrimmage on Monday. "It makes things a lot more easier out there."

Last season, with the Knicks point guard situation unsettled at first and then when Jeremy Lin took over, Anthony was asked at times to bring the ball up the floor and get the Knicks into their offense.

That won't be the case this year, as long as Felton and veteran backup Jason Kidd stay healthy.

"It settles everything down for myself (and) for everybody," Anthony said, noting that he and his teammates can operate where they are most comfortable. "They can be that much (more) effective rather than me trying to bring the ball up the court, make a play for my teammates [or] for myself, and try to do everything. I'd rather just play off of Raymond and do what I've got to do and do what I do best."

The Knicks acquired Felton over the summer after deciding not to match Houston's three-year $25.1 million offer sheet to Jeremy Lin.

Tyson Chandler said over the weekend that he thinks the duo of Felton and veteran backup Jason Kidd will make it easier on the front line of Anthony, himself and Amare Stoudemire.

He noted that Lin, because of his lack of experience, wasn't as effective at getting the Knicks in the proper spots to be effective.

"Jeremy was a young point guard who was inexperienced, who brought a great light to the organization. But as far as being able to run the offense and putting players in the right position he just wasn't there. We got some veteran point guards that are capable of doing that," Chandler told reporters on Friday.

Prior to Lin's ascent, the Knicks struggled to find a capable playmaker. Toney Douglas was too inexperienced and Baron Davis was injured.

This year, with a healthy Felton and Kidd playing from the first day of training camp, things are different, according to Chandler.

"The intensity is way up and also there's also calmness when we're coming downcourt, with the point guards getting things under control and making sure we get good shots every possession," Chandler said.

"I think the toughest thing last year was our best players were at the 3, 4 and 5 spots with nobody really to get them the ball in the right places ... This year, with the additions that we got at [point guard], Melo can play his natural role and be a finisher and Amare can do the same thing."

The Knicks, of course, are hoping that Felton can return to the form that he showed in New York in 2010-2011. He averaged 17 points and nine assists per game before being dealt to Denver in the blockbuster trade that brought Anthony to the Knicks.

Felton is coming off of a rough year in Portland in which he was out of shape at the beginning of training camp and struggled to regain form throughout the year. He has vowed to bounce back, saying earlier this month that he's playing this season with a 'big, big' chip on his shoulder.

Does Felton play well with Chips on his shoulders?

I guess it depends what kind of chips right guys/////ha ha ha

Does Dallas reclaim players fairly well without ruining team success?

Yes

I guess we'll see if it works with Felton

Sounds like Nix jumped in Donny Jr's body

It wouldnt suprise me if Felton does good there, the certainly have legit history in ressurecting careers. Despite what our resident delusionist says Felton actually has been more good to the Knicks than bad. He certainly helped the team win it's first division title in how long and 54 games.

Dude had an awful year last season, so did others.

But I want an answer to this "roots" thing.

The roots spread further than you initially projected and we told you this very early on in this thread.

Stop being stubborn and closed minded

Phil must fully exhume the tree if he wants to replant producing new healthy growth

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Firstly dallas obviously saw something that they TOOK the pg role away from and gave to Monta, but thats another issue...

Did they win 54 games, win their divsion and make it to the second round?

A simple yes or no......

it's not hard to type three letters or just two.

I'm laughing at your contention here. You think that a noted PURE PG like Jose had the ball taken out of his hands because of what? It's the way they wanted to play with Ellis in the game. Ellis is a more dynamic player athletically. Since Jose is such a great shooter it didn't hurt them in any way having Jose play off the ball more. It's also why he will be fine here in the Triangle. He's able to shoot the ball at the highest levels and is still a great PnR and passing PG when it's needed.

Irrelevant. He wasnt the pg in dallas, Monta was....facts over opinions. Dallas probably win the series is calderon could play a lick of defense.

but yeah since you claim Calderon played well lets look at it for real.....

Game 1 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 5 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 7 2-8 from the field....loss.

Here's what I notice.....3-4 losses this great shooter shot like crap. But hey, dont let FACTS stand in the way.

Did you notice a page ago he slammed Felton for going 1-8fg and 0-7fg in the Pacers series 2yrs ago.

Although Felton probably played the most consistent this postseason, compared to all other Knicks

Calderon sat a few of those games late when the games were still undecided.

Carlisle didn't trust his defense

i've rarely seen a starter play less in the playoffs than they do in the regular season....thats is rather odd, even fat boy felton didnt do that.

But seriously though Felton was terrible last year, but having calderon salary on the books during both important free agency periods may not bode so well.

Calderon expires July 2017....the Mavs literally traded him the very next year they signed him.

More facts.

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Firstly dallas obviously saw something that they TOOK the pg role away from and gave to Monta, but thats another issue...

Did they win 54 games, win their divsion and make it to the second round?

A simple yes or no......

it's not hard to type three letters or just two.

I'm laughing at your contention here. You think that a noted PURE PG like Jose had the ball taken out of his hands because of what? It's the way they wanted to play with Ellis in the game. Ellis is a more dynamic player athletically. Since Jose is such a great shooter it didn't hurt them in any way having Jose play off the ball more. It's also why he will be fine here in the Triangle. He's able to shoot the ball at the highest levels and is still a great PnR and passing PG when it's needed.

Irrelevant. He wasnt the pg in dallas, Monta was....facts over opinions. Dallas probably win the series is calderon could play a lick of defense.

but yeah since you claim Calderon played well lets look at it for real.....

Game 1 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 5 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 7 2-8 from the field....loss.

Here's what I notice.....3-4 losses this great shooter shot like crap. But hey, dont let FACTS stand in the way.

Did you notice a page ago he slammed Felton for going 1-8fg and 0-7fg in the Pacers series 2yrs ago.

Although Felton probably played the most consistent this postseason, compared to all other Knicks

Calderon sat a few of those games late when the games were still undecided.

Carlisle didn't trust his defense

But seriously though Felton was terrible last year, but having calderon salary on the books during both important free agency periods may not bode so well.

Calderon expires July 2017....the Mavs literally traded him the very next year they signed him.

More facts.

While sending other assets out the door like picks and Larkin.

Very eccentric move by them

Can their modus operandi be refuted since all moves made have net 14 straight winning seasons?

Calderon is alright but your declaration of salary anxiety

His deal expires in 3yrs, we should be contending correct?

Do you see him as a starting championship caliber point guard

My view on this has been the same since day one...

I believe Phil can make the Knicks a winner, and by winner I mean win it all...a championship. I do not feel though that the triangle is the best way to go for this core primarily melo as it has proven success with complete basketball players and elite reserves to which we have none of those compoenents, and i dont see a team letting complete basketball players just walk off their teams to come to NY.

I also dont view melo as a primary piece either and rumors have it phil doesnt either which is why the rumors have him pointing to durant in 2016 and not using his max room in 2015 for a max cat.

Now as far as Calderon goes, I think he's what he is....a good pg that can shoot but doesnt do it enough but one that will hurt you on the defensive end to the point his offense is worthless. say what you will but Felton will get a crucial defensive stop, the most noted was the game when Steph Curry went for 54....now mind you he should have gotten ONE stop since he was getting blistered all night. check around the 5:00 mark.

Calderon doesnt have the resume of contributing on teams in a winning way...I think we're stuck with him honestly now.

I hope for the best, but dont expect it.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Firstly dallas obviously saw something that they TOOK the pg role away from and gave to Monta, but thats another issue...

Did they win 54 games, win their divsion and make it to the second round?

A simple yes or no......

it's not hard to type three letters or just two.

I'm laughing at your contention here. You think that a noted PURE PG like Jose had the ball taken out of his hands because of what? It's the way they wanted to play with Ellis in the game. Ellis is a more dynamic player athletically. Since Jose is such a great shooter it didn't hurt them in any way having Jose play off the ball more. It's also why he will be fine here in the Triangle. He's able to shoot the ball at the highest levels and is still a great PnR and passing PG when it's needed.

Irrelevant. He wasnt the pg in dallas, Monta was....facts over opinions. Dallas probably win the series is calderon could play a lick of defense.

but yeah since you claim Calderon played well lets look at it for real.....

Game 1 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 5 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 7 2-8 from the field....loss.

Here's what I notice.....3-4 losses this great shooter shot like crap. But hey, dont let FACTS stand in the way.

CHERRY PICKING!!! What a punk move!!! You think you've made some great point here but that's not really that insightful since the Mavs were playing the freakin SPURS!!! How did the Heat do against the Spurs??? It's not that unexpected that in a tough series like this that a player like Jose will have his ups and downs. No one is suggesting he's a superstar. Your expectations are totally unrealistic and i've never held him out to be a superstar. The Spurs were pretty damn good this year don't you think? It would be pretty damn amazing if Jose dominated against the Spurs for an entire series. The Mavs took the eventual World Champion Spurs to 7 games and your lame attempt to try and diminish Jose is to point to 3 bad games. Rather than your Cherry Picked stats trying to make Jose look bad, lets look at the whole series:

2013-2014 POSTSEASON GAME LOG
DATE	OPP   SCORE	MIN  FGM-FGA  FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%  REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Sun 5/4	@ SA  L 96-119	29   2-8      .250   0-2     .000   0-0	     .000  2   4   0   0   4  0	 4
Fri 5/2	vsSA  W 113-111	32   5-9      .556   2-3     .667   0-0	     .000  5   6   0   1   2  1	 12
Wed 4/30 @ SA L 103-109	26   3-9      .333   2-5     .400   0-0	     .000  2   2   0   0   3  0	 8
Mon 4/28 vsSA L 89-93	29   5-10     .500   3-4     .750   0-0	     .000  0   3   0   0   1  0	 13
Sat 4/26 vsSA W 109-108	30   7-10     .700   2-3     .667   0-0	     .000  0   9   0   0   2  4	 16
Wed 4/23 @ SA W 113-92	28   5-10     .500   1-4     .250   1-1	     1.000 0   5   0   0   2  1	 12
Sun 4/20 @ SA L 85-90	16   3-9      .333   1-2     .500   0-0	     .000  0   2   0   0   2  1	 7

You seem to want to make some case about Jose from a purely individual basis and view him in a vacuum rather than what i've been contending in terms of him being here in place of Felton. On this team in this system Jose is a better player for this team. Let's stop with the ridiculous and unrealistic takes on Jose and what he brings to the table. I understand that you guys want to try and make me look bad but you're going to have to do better than this kind of garbage!!!

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:
Actually Felton played very well in the Boston series as did Shump and Prgigoni.

He played fairly decent in the Pacers series with exception to two games

So you're lying here

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2753/year/2013/raymond-felton

I don't know what "lie" I am supposed to have told. We know the Knicks won the Boston series, so there can be no "blame" for losing a series the team won. I never said that Felton NEVER played well or NEVER had good games. What kind of nonsense point are you trying to make? Now when it comes to the Pacers series. My actual point about consistency still holds. In one loss he was 1-8 and another loss he was 0-7. But this is all besides the point cuz you're trying to boil my argument down to the 2 playoff series we had 2 yrs ago and that really isn't what this is about and it's not just about the scoring performances Felton had in the playoffs. I do believe my overarching point was about last season compared to this season in terms of the team's leadership!!!

Just cuz Felton had some very good playoff performances doesn't erase the season he had last year. It doesn't change the fact that he's not the kind of leader that Jose is. Overall it doesn't change the fact that this is about Dolan, Woody and Felton vs Phil, Fish and Jose. My point is that there's reason to be more confident in this team because Phil, Fish and Jose are a better trio to lead the team than Dolan, Woody and Felton. It's not even close. Heck even Phil, Fish and Felton isn't as good as Phil, Fish and Jose.

When preparing a dish on a stove I always make sure to/////

Introduce these two

You wanted ascribe the Boston series as a "team win" when stats prove Felton played well

The Pacers series you Cherry Picked his 2 bad performaces out of 6gms played 4 he played well

Dallas pushed the Spurs to 7gms not because of Jose's 3-4gms of good play

Nope their 3 wins in that series were "team wins" you'd agree right

So if we win this year regardless of what Jose's number's say will you conclude credit to "team winning"

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Firstly dallas obviously saw something that they TOOK the pg role away from and gave to Monta, but thats another issue...

Did they win 54 games, win their divsion and make it to the second round?

A simple yes or no......

it's not hard to type three letters or just two.

I'm laughing at your contention here. You think that a noted PURE PG like Jose had the ball taken out of his hands because of what? It's the way they wanted to play with Ellis in the game. Ellis is a more dynamic player athletically. Since Jose is such a great shooter it didn't hurt them in any way having Jose play off the ball more. It's also why he will be fine here in the Triangle. He's able to shoot the ball at the highest levels and is still a great PnR and passing PG when it's needed.

Irrelevant. He wasnt the pg in dallas, Monta was....facts over opinions. Dallas probably win the series is calderon could play a lick of defense.

but yeah since you claim Calderon played well lets look at it for real.....

Game 1 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 5 3-9 from the field....loss.

Game 7 2-8 from the field....loss.

Here's what I notice.....3-4 losses this great shooter shot like crap. But hey, dont let FACTS stand in the way.

CHERRY PICKING!!! What a punk move!!! You think you've made some great point here but that's not really that insightful since the Mavs were playing the freakin SPURS!!! How did the Heat do against the Spurs??? It's not that unexpected that in a tough series like this that a player like Jose will have his ups and downs. No one is suggesting he's a superstar. Your expectations are totally unrealistic and i've never held him out to be a superstar. The Spurs were pretty damn good this year don't you think? It would be pretty damn amazing if Jose dominated against the Spurs for an entire series. The Mavs took the eventual World Champion Spurs to 7 games and your lame attempt to try and diminish Jose is to point to 3 bad games. Rather than your Cherry Picked stats trying to make Jose look bad, lets look at the whole series:

2013-2014 POSTSEASON GAME LOG
DATE	OPP   SCORE	MIN  FGM-FGA  FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%  REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Sun 5/4	@ SA  L 96-119	29   2-8      .250   0-2     .000   0-0	     .000  2   4   0   0   4  0	 4
Fri 5/2	vsSA  W 113-111	32   5-9      .556   2-3     .667   0-0	     .000  5   6   0   1   2  1	 12
Wed 4/30 @ SA L 103-109	26   3-9      .333   2-5     .400   0-0	     .000  2   2   0   0   3  0	 8
Mon 4/28 vsSA L 89-93	29   5-10     .500   3-4     .750   0-0	     .000  0   3   0   0   1  0	 13
Sat 4/26 vsSA W 109-108	30   7-10     .700   2-3     .667   0-0	     .000  0   9   0   0   2  4	 16
Wed 4/23 @ SA W 113-92	28   5-10     .500   1-4     .250   1-1	     1.000 0   5   0   0   2  1	 12
Sun 4/20 @ SA L 85-90	16   3-9      .333   1-2     .500   0-0	     .000  0   2   0   0   2  1	 7

You seem to want to make some case about Jose from a purely individual basis and view him in a vacuum rather than what i've been contending in terms of him being here in place of Felton. On this team in this system Jose is a better player for this team. Let's stop with the ridiculous and unrealistic takes on Jose and what he brings to the table. I understand that you guys want to try and make me look bad but you're going to have to do better than this kind of garbage!!!

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:
Actually Felton played very well in the Boston series as did Shump and Prgigoni.

He played fairly decent in the Pacers series with exception to two games

So you're lying here

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2753/year/2013/raymond-felton

I don't know what "lie" I am supposed to have told. We know the Knicks won the Boston series, so there can be no "blame" for losing a series the team won. I never said that Felton NEVER played well or NEVER had good games. What kind of nonsense point are you trying to make? Now when it comes to the Pacers series. My actual point about consistency still holds. In one loss he was 1-8 and another loss he was 0-7. But this is all besides the point cuz you're trying to boil my argument down to the 2 playoff series we had 2 yrs ago and that really isn't what this is about and it's not just about the scoring performances Felton had in the playoffs. I do believe my overarching point was about last season compared to this season in terms of the team's leadership!!!

Just cuz Felton had some very good playoff performances doesn't erase the season he had last year. It doesn't change the fact that he's not the kind of leader that Jose is. Overall it doesn't change the fact that this is about Dolan, Woody and Felton vs Phil, Fish and Jose. My point is that there's reason to be more confident in this team because Phil, Fish and Jose are a better trio to lead the team than Dolan, Woody and Felton. It's not even close. Heck even Phil, Fish and Felton isn't as good as Phil, Fish and Jose.

When preparing a dish on a stove I always make sure to/////

Introduce these two

You wanted ascribe the Boston series as a "team win" when stats prove Felton played well

The Pacers series you Cherry Picked his 2 bad performaces out of 6gms played 4 he played well

Dallas pushed the Spurs to 7gms not because of Jose's 3-4gms of good play

Nope their 3 wins in that series were "team wins" you'd agree right

So if we win this year regardless of what Jose's number's say will you conclude credit to "team winning"

I honestly dont think his screenaname belongs to just one user, it's like three different people are posting to his account and none are even conferring what they write.

Phil, Fish and Jose >>>>>>>>> Dolan, Woody and Felton!!! Stop trying to confuse everyone and make this into an argument about specific games. Sure that's part of it, but it's not the most important part. We're in better shape now based on how Phil, Fish and Jose fit as a unit. They have a focus on TEAM that we really didn't see from Dolan, Woody and Felton. Phil is 110% focused on TEAM and he developed Fish into a PG that was focused on TEAM and has the same approach to the game. Jose is totally focused on team and is known to be that kind of player. Felton gets caught up trying to prove he's an elite player and often it gets him into trouble. Whereas Jose's own words underscore his team focus:

"That's my game," he said. "I'm not a 25-point, whatever. I'm a team player, a [pass-first] point guard. I'm going to try to put everybody in position, try to make the right decision at the end. I've been playing for a while. I know how to handle those situations. I will try to do what Coach wants at the end of the game and execute the right way."

"For me, it's always to put everybody in the right situation," Calderon said on a conference call Friday. "I don't make everybody work for their shot every time. He's (Melo) one of the best players in the league. I'd love to play with him. I think I can help him, take a lot of pressure off him and just give him the ball when he's ready for it."

"That's what I've been doing. I did it in Toronto with Chris Bosh or [DeMar] DeRozan and with Dirk the last year with Dallas. And because of my three-point ability, I can give him (Melo) more space."

"I'd love to make everything easier for him (Melo) and make the team successful and try to get as far as we can. He can be a big part of this for sure. Anything I can do to make him stay, for sure."

So back to my overall point. Phil, Fish and Jose IMO represent a more solid and unified chain of command and should be able to execute the game plan and get the rest of the team in line on that game plan much more effectively because they are unified and focused. Not to mention more capable leaders and communicators in terms of BB. We've lacked this kind of unity and clarity of focus.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are really doing a helluva job of trying to confuse the issues here. You guys are the ones trying to make this argument limited to Felton's and Jose's playoff performances. I've been taking a much more comprehensive view of the value of not only replacing Felton with Jose but how that fits into the leadership of the team from Dolan, Woody and Felton to Phil, Fish and Jose. This is just your way of trying to find a small point to make a big deal about and win an argument. It is only a small part of my overall point in this thread.

Phil, Fish and Jose >>>>>>>>> Dolan, Woody and Felton!!! Stop trying to confuse everyone and make this into an argument about specific games. Sure that's part of it, but it's not the most important part. We're in better shape now based on how Phil, Fish and Jose fit as a unit. They have a focus on TEAM that we really didn't see from Dolan, Woody and Felton. Phil is 110% focused on TEAM and he developed Fish into a PG that was focused on TEAM and has the same approach to the game. Jose is totally focused on team and is known to be that kind of player. Felton gets caught up trying to prove he's an elite player and often it gets him into trouble. Whereas Jose's own words underscore his team focus:

"That's my game," he said. "I'm not a 25-point, whatever. I'm a team player, a [pass-first] point guard. I'm going to try to put everybody in position, try to make the right decision at the end. I've been playing for a while. I know how to handle those situations. I will try to do what Coach wants at the end of the game and execute the right way."

"For me, it's always to put everybody in the right situation," Calderon said on a conference call Friday. "I don't make everybody work for their shot every time. He's (Melo) one of the best players in the league. I'd love to play with him. I think I can help him, take a lot of pressure off him and just give him the ball when he's ready for it."

"That's what I've been doing. I did it in Toronto with Chris Bosh or [DeMar] DeRozan and with Dirk the last year with Dallas. And because of my three-point ability, I can give him (Melo) more space."

"I'd love to make everything easier for him (Melo) and make the team successful and try to get as far as we can. He can be a big part of this for sure. Anything I can do to make him stay, for sure."

So back to my overall point. Phil, Fish and Jose IMO represent a more solid and unified chain of command and should be able to execute the game plan and get the rest of the team in line on that game plan much more effectively because they are unified and focused. Not to mention more capable leaders and communicators in terms of BB. We've lacked this kind of unity and clarity of focus.

I really think it's you that has to go back and read your posts....it literally looks like 3-4 poeple have access to your account as you're all over the place.

Dolan is the one who put this together, after all, the overall point of your thread is about ROOTS is it not?

So....Dolan-Phil-Fish-Calderon seems appropriate as none of it's possible without Jimmy.

And sorry dude, none of your vaunted trifecta have proven ANYTHING in the roles they are currently in....yet.

Calderon has never led a team anywhere but lotto. Fisher has never coached from the sideline. Phil has never been a chief exec before.

We all have to wait and see.....as it could be successful, but it could fail as well.

I've only been dragged off into tangents by you and others who keep making these smaller and less important arguments. Most of you negative guys have missed the point of the thread entirely. That's my fault for taking the bait.

Dolan is no longer at the top of the day to day decision making and that is the point I was making. I've been very clear about that. Dolan in his own words has stepped aside and given that job to Phil. So no it's not Dolan, Phil, Fish and Jose in the way it was in fact Dolan, Woody and Felton. It's Phil, Fish and Jose in that chain.

Of course it could fail. That's the case with anything in life. I don't think it's likely. The pedigree of Phil, Fish and Jose is that they are known to be good leaders and focused on team first. That will permeate the rest of the franchise and change the culture to one that should make it more successful. I've made no guarantee. I've only suggested that there is reason to believe in this team due to a better, more unified and more focused group leading the way. That was the genesis of this thread, regardless of how it may have drifted off course. I keep trying to bring it back to the main point.