dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:The chronic Melo Bash is about as pathetic as the homer melo Apologist.

There are so many variables to each individual player and circumstance its sad to think they are not members of teams and the influence those variables play.

Love is going to play with Kyrie and Lebron. Melo came to play with Billups and Landry.

I hated the Melo trade and use to bang on the guy for his fitness but the crap that guys post about him has me constantly defending him. I think many of the 'Melo Apologists' are responding to the ridiculousness of the stuff posted about Melo. Also, I watch almost every game and the guy is really good and plays really hard.

exactly... this is what people dont get. You get stupid post after stupid post and you call it out and your a homer. Knicks dont have a winning season for a decade, get Melo and go to the playoffs 3 straight years and get better ever year and you have Guns etc posting stuff like nothing has been accomplished.

Was the expectation to get Melo and just go the finals every year? No other pieces needed right?

It only counts if the team is doing things they agree with. They have this love affair with building a team is through the draft. Since we gave up draft picks (no matter how damaged and worthless) to get a superstar player we are doing it in a way they do not agree with. So at this point it has nothing to do with wanting the Knicks to win. It has to do with winning their way.

You are missing the point if you think it's simply about building through the draft. We emptied the cupboard of every asset to get Carmelo here. Surrounding him with enough talent became impossible because we did not have young players and picks to trade. It looks like Phil plans on holding into hose assets. Something the Knicks have refused to do in heir history.

As far as Melo we wi just let things play out on the court. It better work because he is virtually untradeable at that price and the fact that he put a no trade Claus in his contract. It better work. They got 5yrs

again..... just totally totally false. I didnt like the trade at the time, mostly because Felton was playing career ball under MDA and Billups was a terrible fit as a walk it up half court guy

The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.

Lets review the championship pieces we are dying without since the Melo trade:
Wil Chandler: nice role player, never healthy
Gallo: nice role player, never healthy, bad contract
Mozgov: love him.. what can I say? But he's a role player fringe starter at best
2 second rounders (got those back with Felton/Chandler deal)
1 first rounder

So please... pretty please... just stop it. Give me a freakin break. Knicks lost ALL the key players to a 29 win team. End of story. Time to get over it and stop pretending we traded Durant and Lebron first rounders. It didnt happen. If pretending it does makes you feel warm and fuzzy try smoking weed. Its safer and will yield better results.

"29 win team"

skippy why are you lying? the knicks were 28-26 at the time of the swindle and were a lock for 7th or 8th seed for the playoffs in 2010-2011. had he kept his mouth shut and waited for free agency the knicks would have been and still would be in a far better position.

lol... nice try. fail.

I'm confused by the "29 win team" talk as well....did you exopect the Knicks to only win 1 more game the rest of the way?

But it matter none. Carmelo HIMSELF said he knew the team would have to rebuild when they traded for him....not retool, but rebuild.

The player himself is admitting the team was gutted.

That Knicks team had Amare playing at an MVP level. With injured Amare, we were looking at a 30 win or less team moving forward.

Amare was already gassed and the team nose diving.

even without amare the team merely had to go 10-18 to make the 8th seed. what's your point here?

yeah - they would have backed into the playoffs but as we both know, playoffs are meaningless if you stink and the way that team was playing was pretty stinky. Amare was gassed and Felton was bound to be Felton.

Yeah because we finished the season blazing 14-14 after the trade

While making violent noise in the playoffs exiting the first round

who said we blazed? Violent noise? Did I say that? We can lay most of the blame there to our 100 million dollar stupid gamble.

All I'm saying 14-14 is no better than what we probably would have finished

The main reason for the trade/////

Melo makes up for what was lost[players given to Denver] and what was lost[Amare awful contract]

In the end we traveled from one bad contract to another

You see Amare contract didn't stop us from getting Melo

Melo's contract/trade has prevented us from getting

a Melo or Amare or in a dream world scenario talent

While the competition's world becomes organically better with talent

I don't agree.

Could we not have gotten Lowry instead of Bargs?

How about Not getting Chandler and wasting our Amnesty?

We blew our chances after the Melo trade because we needed to starphuck the next year.

How about a core of Milsap, Melo and Lowry?

Pre and Post Melo trade moves were awful.

but the melo move was the greatest acquisition since debusscherre. okey dokey

wtf? Are you drunk?

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:The chronic Melo Bash is about as pathetic as the homer melo Apologist.

There are so many variables to each individual player and circumstance its sad to think they are not members of teams and the influence those variables play.

Love is going to play with Kyrie and Lebron. Melo came to play with Billups and Landry.

I hated the Melo trade and use to bang on the guy for his fitness but the crap that guys post about him has me constantly defending him. I think many of the 'Melo Apologists' are responding to the ridiculousness of the stuff posted about Melo. Also, I watch almost every game and the guy is really good and plays really hard.

exactly... this is what people dont get. You get stupid post after stupid post and you call it out and your a homer. Knicks dont have a winning season for a decade, get Melo and go to the playoffs 3 straight years and get better ever year and you have Guns etc posting stuff like nothing has been accomplished.

Was the expectation to get Melo and just go the finals every year? No other pieces needed right?

It only counts if the team is doing things they agree with. They have this love affair with building a team is through the draft. Since we gave up draft picks (no matter how damaged and worthless) to get a superstar player we are doing it in a way they do not agree with. So at this point it has nothing to do with wanting the Knicks to win. It has to do with winning their way.

You are missing the point if you think it's simply about building through the draft. We emptied the cupboard of every asset to get Carmelo here. Surrounding him with enough talent became impossible because we did not have young players and picks to trade. It looks like Phil plans on holding into hose assets. Something the Knicks have refused to do in heir history.

As far as Melo we wi just let things play out on the court. It better work because he is virtually untradeable at that price and the fact that he put a no trade Claus in his contract. It better work. They got 5yrs

again..... just totally totally false. I didnt like the trade at the time, mostly because Felton was playing career ball under MDA and Billups was a terrible fit as a walk it up half court guy

The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.

Lets review the championship pieces we are dying without since the Melo trade:
Wil Chandler: nice role player, never healthy
Gallo: nice role player, never healthy, bad contract
Mozgov: love him.. what can I say? But he's a role player fringe starter at best
2 second rounders (got those back with Felton/Chandler deal)
1 first rounder

So please... pretty please... just stop it. Give me a freakin break. Knicks lost ALL the key players to a 29 win team. End of story. Time to get over it and stop pretending we traded Durant and Lebron first rounders. It didnt happen. If pretending it does makes you feel warm and fuzzy try smoking weed. Its safer and will yield better results.

"29 win team"

skippy why are you lying? the knicks were 28-26 at the time of the swindle and were a lock for 7th or 8th seed for the playoffs in 2010-2011. had he kept his mouth shut and waited for free agency the knicks would have been and still would be in a far better position.

lol... nice try. fail.

I'm confused by the "29 win team" talk as well....did you exopect the Knicks to only win 1 more game the rest of the way?

But it matter none. Carmelo HIMSELF said he knew the team would have to rebuild when they traded for him....not retool, but rebuild.

The player himself is admitting the team was gutted.

That Knicks team had Amare playing at an MVP level. With injured Amare, we were looking at a 30 win or less team moving forward.

Amare was already gassed and the team nose diving.

even without amare the team merely had to go 10-18 to make the 8th seed. what's your point here?

yeah - they would have backed into the playoffs but as we both know, playoffs are meaningless if you stink and the way that team was playing was pretty stinky. Amare was gassed and Felton was bound to be Felton.

Yeah because we finished the season blazing 14-14 after the trade

While making violent noise in the playoffs exiting the first round

who said we blazed? Violent noise? Did I say that? We can lay most of the blame there to our 100 million dollar stupid gamble.

All I'm saying 14-14 is no better than what we probably would have finished

The main reason for the trade/////

Melo makes up for what was lost[players given to Denver] and what was lost[Amare awful contract]

In the end we traveled from one bad contract to another

You see Amare contract didn't stop us from getting Melo

Melo's contract/trade has prevented us from getting

a Melo or Amare or in a dream world scenario talent

While the competition's world becomes organically better with talent

I don't agree.

Could we not have gotten Lowry instead of Bargs?

How about Not getting Chandler and wasting our Amnesty?

We blew our chances after the Melo trade because we needed to starphuck the next year.

How about a core of Milsap, Melo and Lowry?

Pre and Post Melo trade moves were awful.

Lowry was traded to the Raptors after fighting with Mchale in 2012

He was traded for a lottery pick[Top 3 Protected]

What pick should-could we have legally sacrificed

You would have wanted to trade with Morey again who almost took our 2011 and 2012 pick

Milsap signed with the Hawks last year

What were we to do in the meantime since we were in win now mode?

The Pre and Post moves were bad because we had no real plan

Any plan we tried to drum up after the fact was doomed to fail

We could have had Lowry if we had our Bargs pick, I am pretty sure that the knicks had a similar deal with Toronto on the table for a #1 and an overrated yoot.

We should have played out the season with Billups and Amnestied Amare like I have stated many times but we were in Starphuck mode so we double down and got starphucked.

I was against the Amare move from day one - it was beyond stupid.

The Tyson move may have been even stupider since we had the chance to fix stupid #1.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:The chronic Melo Bash is about as pathetic as the homer melo Apologist.

There are so many variables to each individual player and circumstance its sad to think they are not members of teams and the influence those variables play.

Love is going to play with Kyrie and Lebron. Melo came to play with Billups and Landry.

I hated the Melo trade and use to bang on the guy for his fitness but the crap that guys post about him has me constantly defending him. I think many of the 'Melo Apologists' are responding to the ridiculousness of the stuff posted about Melo. Also, I watch almost every game and the guy is really good and plays really hard.

exactly... this is what people dont get. You get stupid post after stupid post and you call it out and your a homer. Knicks dont have a winning season for a decade, get Melo and go to the playoffs 3 straight years and get better ever year and you have Guns etc posting stuff like nothing has been accomplished.

Was the expectation to get Melo and just go the finals every year? No other pieces needed right?

It only counts if the team is doing things they agree with. They have this love affair with building a team is through the draft. Since we gave up draft picks (no matter how damaged and worthless) to get a superstar player we are doing it in a way they do not agree with. So at this point it has nothing to do with wanting the Knicks to win. It has to do with winning their way.

You are missing the point if you think it's simply about building through the draft. We emptied the cupboard of every asset to get Carmelo here. Surrounding him with enough talent became impossible because we did not have young players and picks to trade. It looks like Phil plans on holding into hose assets. Something the Knicks have refused to do in heir history.

As far as Melo we wi just let things play out on the court. It better work because he is virtually untradeable at that price and the fact that he put a no trade Claus in his contract. It better work. They got 5yrs

again..... just totally totally false. I didnt like the trade at the time, mostly because Felton was playing career ball under MDA and Billups was a terrible fit as a walk it up half court guy

The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.

Lets review the championship pieces we are dying without since the Melo trade:
Wil Chandler: nice role player, never healthy
Gallo: nice role player, never healthy, bad contract
Mozgov: love him.. what can I say? But he's a role player fringe starter at best
2 second rounders (got those back with Felton/Chandler deal)
1 first rounder

So please... pretty please... just stop it. Give me a freakin break. Knicks lost ALL the key players to a 29 win team. End of story. Time to get over it and stop pretending we traded Durant and Lebron first rounders. It didnt happen. If pretending it does makes you feel warm and fuzzy try smoking weed. Its safer and will yield better results.

"29 win team"

skippy why are you lying? the knicks were 28-26 at the time of the swindle and were a lock for 7th or 8th seed for the playoffs in 2010-2011. had he kept his mouth shut and waited for free agency the knicks would have been and still would be in a far better position.

lol... nice try. fail.

I'm confused by the "29 win team" talk as well....did you exopect the Knicks to only win 1 more game the rest of the way?

But it matter none. Carmelo HIMSELF said he knew the team would have to rebuild when they traded for him....not retool, but rebuild.

The player himself is admitting the team was gutted.

That Knicks team had Amare playing at an MVP level. With injured Amare, we were looking at a 30 win or less team moving forward.

Amare was already gassed and the team nose diving.

even without amare the team merely had to go 10-18 to make the 8th seed. what's your point here?

yeah - they would have backed into the playoffs but as we both know, playoffs are meaningless if you stink and the way that team was playing was pretty stinky. Amare was gassed and Felton was bound to be Felton.

Yeah because we finished the season blazing 14-14 after the trade

While making violent noise in the playoffs exiting the first round

who said we blazed? Violent noise? Did I say that? We can lay most of the blame there to our 100 million dollar stupid gamble.

All I'm saying 14-14 is no better than what we probably would have finished

The main reason for the trade/////

Melo makes up for what was lost[players given to Denver] and what was lost[Amare awful contract]

In the end we traveled from one bad contract to another

You see Amare contract didn't stop us from getting Melo

Melo's contract/trade has prevented us from getting

a Melo or Amare or in a dream world scenario talent

While the competition's world becomes organically better with talent

I don't agree.

Could we not have gotten Lowry instead of Bargs?

How about Not getting Chandler and wasting our Amnesty?

We blew our chances after the Melo trade because we needed to starphuck the next year.

How about a core of Milsap, Melo and Lowry?

Pre and Post Melo trade moves were awful.

but the melo move was the greatest acquisition since debusscherre. okey dokey

wtf? Are you drunk?

yes i am

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:The pairing was certainly awful and management was really stupid.

We could have had Lowry if we had our Bargs pick, I am pretty sure that the knicks had a similar deal with Toronto on the table for a #1 and an overrated yoot.

We should have played out the season with Billups and Amnestied Amare like I have stated many times but we were in Starphuck mode so we double down and got starphucked.

I was against the Amare move from day one - it was beyond stupid.

The Tyson move may have been even stupider since we had the chance to fix stupid #1.

After which season would you have amnestied Amare?

his second.

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:The pairing was certainly awful and management was really stupid.

We could have had Lowry if we had our Bargs pick, I am pretty sure that the knicks had a similar deal with Toronto on the table for a #1 and an overrated yoot.

We should have played out the season with Billups and Amnestied Amare like I have stated many times but we were in Starphuck mode so we double down and got starphucked.

I was against the Amare move from day one - it was beyond stupid.

The Tyson move may have been even stupider since we had the chance to fix stupid #1.

After which season would you have amnestied Amare?

his second.

When he missed quite a bit of time due to the loss of his brother?

when we realized that he was a bad signing and could have ran for the hills.

Or after the third ... who cares. But to waste it on Tyson and go with TD as the PG?

And Tyson had no other offers aside from possibly GS who was awful then and could not get anyone to come there. So once again we outbid ourselves ... great.

As far as the rest of the post, it doesn't compute as the events are quite different.

Walsh reupped chauncey's deal...had he not, the amnesty choice could ONLY have been for Amare to be used whenever.

Toney Douglas being the pg was all opn D'antoni as that was whom he always used when he didnt have a point like when Chucnaey bumped into Dwight and missed time the season before. he even opted for TD in the playoffs some as well.....or he could have used the player whom he wound up using anyway Lin who was on the team. As far as Tyson goes, he took less to come here, so we didnt bid against ourselves. We had a better team as well.

But circling back to Amare....I seriously doubt Dolan would amnesty a guy who is a loyal dude to him. he has history of NOT doing so with Allan Houston whom actually was injured.

Ironically Amare's knees havent been an issue outside of a collision in training camp practice.

mreinman wrote:Oh yes! Picking up the final year of CB was a stroke of genius.

And fans like shmike amare - who cares. Fans are blind idiots. The same ones who get attached to bad players like shumpert and can't let go.

And that Dolan would not have amnestied him because of loyalty ala Houston, that just shows how big of a dope Dolan is/was.

I am just stating that it was all retarded.

It's isnt bad for business which is Dolan's bottom line...and apprantly it hasnt affected attendance at the garden either.

I really do think message board knicks fans really forget that the team is a business first. Winning doesnt have to happen for it's success.

knickscity wrote:

mreinman wrote:Oh yes! Picking up the final year of CB was a stroke of genius.

And fans like shmike amare - who cares. Fans are blind idiots. The same ones who get attached to bad players like shumpert and can't let go.

And that Dolan would not have amnestied him because of loyalty ala Houston, that just shows how big of a dope Dolan is/was.

I am just stating that it was all retarded.

It's isnt bad for business which is Dolan's bottom line...and apprantly it hasnt affected attendance at the garden either.

I really do think message board knicks fans really forget that the team is a business first. Winning doesnt have to happen for it's success.

This is very true

I recall watching a game 4-5yrs ago and Breen said/////

MSG makes approximately $2.1mil everytime the doors open

I imagine even more today

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

dk7th wrote:

franco12 wrote:One way to look at NY having given up more is relative to what they had at the time - We were left with Stat and little else- Cleveland still has 2 all stars and depth. And their draft picks after this year.

yes context is everything. what we gave up for melo was too much, just based on the terrible chemistry that stoudemire and anthony would inevitably have. can't say the same for love and lebron or love and irving.

Papabear Says

DK7th Says
the raptors went 22-60 the season bargnani averaged 21.4 points per game. what does that tell you about the importance of scoring 21 points a game in the nba?

some numbers to consider during "his best year" as you put it:

17.8 FGA @ 44.8% with 34.5% from 3
1.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers
5.2 rebounds
28.2 usage and 8.8 assist rate
53.3 TS%

as i have said several times now, he is a decent midrange shooter. if he sticks to that part of the floor and learns to pass the ****ing rock a bit to baseline cutters that'll be a plus. still won't make him a good and solid player. zero-sum is this guy's ceiling.

the Raptors went 40-42 with Kevin Love. Still a loss record. While in Minnesota Kevin Love showed no leadership qualities. He just wanted out. If Cleveland does no do well then maybe Cleveland will cut their losses and Love won't get that big pay day.

Love is an all star, Bargs is not. Love will get paid regardless of where he goes.

And for the record Love wants out because Minny didnt feel he was a max player, which is why they WOULDNT give him a five deal.

Melo on the other hand wanted out AFTER Devner offered him his max.

The three are not the same.

Not to forget Love wants to know what it's like to play in the playoffs, he's never been there

Melo otoh left a solid playoff team to go to a borderline playoff team

Not the same here either

Melo left just prior to a labor stoppage where the owners were telling the players they were changing free agency and would make it much harder and much less lucrative for star players to leave their current teams.

he could have signed the extension in Denver like they offered him immediately.

So True

Judging by what he did on this contract I think Melo was looking further into the future too

My gut says he wanted to go to a team assuring him of another rich deal

New York was the most likely option he could go to, without doubting he'd get another richer deal

Not sure Denver goes another round with him again.

I think they would have traded him to a team of their destination once extension was signed/////

Placing his next deal at risk.

We've been a team making decisions on save face premises, which of course sharks smell this blood very easily

Fortunately for him and his agent spotting the sucker Dolan/////

Melo didn't make 1 bad financial decision when placing Denver in the rear view

Wow. Now Melo plots to find a vulnerable owner and orchestrates a trade there because he knows he will be able to get a max deal? He didn't re-up in Denver because he didn't want to stay there. He could have gone to other teams, i.e. NJ where the Russian would have gladly paid him as much was allowed. I can't imagine thinking a guy was so awful and calculating all the time. The guy signed in to play in a place where he had to pay the most income tax of any nba city. Max deals were there for him. He wanted NY. The incredible mishandling of the team last year prior to Phil may have caused him to have some second thoughts but he wanted to be a Knick and after meeting with Phil/Fish decided he wanted to be a Knick again.

.

It goes back even further, when he signed his first extension in Denver.

Melo has been about Maximum financial benefits

It's why Stephen A. Smith kept repeating all summer

"The Melo I Know Loves His Money"

These Melo can do no wrong arguments are so weak. I find it to be quite humorous

Something that still is not factored in today's evaluation on the trade to being CA
home
Even for a billionaire, that is a lot of money and should have held more value than any assets we gave up

RonRon wrote:We helped Denver save $30-40m and luxury tax on top of it with salaries and Curry's expiring going to Twolves

Something that still is not factored in today's evaluation on the trade to being CA
home
Even for a billionaire, that is a lot of money and should have held more value than any assets we gave up

Great ****in point Ron!