F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

They are not?

And we did?

Nope

Cleveland Wiggins 1 body Bennett 1 body

1st rd Pick nobody

Knicks Gallo 1 body, Chandler 1 body, Felton 1 body, Randolph 1 body, Mozgov 1 body, Curry 1 body

2014 1st rd pick nobody, 2016 1st rd pick nobody, 2012 2nd nobody 2013 2nd nobody

How many bodies is Cleveland giving up of value

How many bodies did Knicks give up of value

We gave up 6 bodies to get 5 but only 2 really got legit playing time

We beat them in bodies and nobodies value

At least as of now until we see what the official trade will be.

Do bodies have to be alive or do dead bodies count?

No sane person would say that we gave up more. The possible argument would be that Love is younger and more valuable which is why the price was so high.

2016 first round pick? Uh ... no.

fishmike wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:what? No discount for the team? Another prick.

he obviously is selfish, is right now counting his money and is laughing at the fans. I can tell you what he's NOT thinking about... winning. He could care less about that.

Exactly- if he really cared about winning he would have either said he'd only re-sign with the Cavs, or he would waited until the offseason and just signed with them outright, and then the Cavs wouldn't have had to part with valuable assets- I won't forgive him for this for the next 5 years!!!!

Haha. This is exactly what people are killing Melo about and we gave up much less for Melo. Melo is better than Love so in hindsight the Melo deal looks even better now. Seriously, Bosh gets 118, Love gets 120 and Melo is at 124. Seems to me like like all superstars take the money thats coming to them. This BS about selectively calling Melo selfish is being exposed as BS.

lebron is making 21.1 per for two years
irving is making 18 for 5 years
love is making a ton of money that is true.

which team is closer to a championship title, the knicks or cleveland?

here come the crickets and bullfrogs

Cleveland is closer, of course! They have Lebron.

Does Love on that Cavs team w/o Lebron make them a contender? Nope. They are in the east so a playoff team for sure but let's be serious Lebron is the ultimate piece that turns any team into a contender and is the ultimate glue guy to boot.

Now we need to consider the context and other players salaries? Its OK not to consider context when saying we missed the playoffs last year and that's Melo's fault. Yeah, he is a ball hog with no one to pass the ball to. No context necessary. No one wants to bring up Amare's or Andrea's salary or what Donnie Walsh did with Zach Randolph and David Lee. Lets blame Melo for everything and not consider context or those circumstances. Mike D'Antoni sucked in NY but that was Melo's fault. No context necessary there. Gallo is injury prone. That's Melo's fault!!

If sane people decide point out that every single superstar FA has taken the money they can get and that doesn't single out Melo, then its time to change the conversation. Cleveland is closer to winning a championship so its OK for Kevin Love to expect the max. But a superstar decides to stay in our city and he is evil because he didn't give up one meal a day? What the actual **** is wrong with these people?! Some of these hypocrites argued with me when I brought up Allan Houston's contract in threads 10 years ago. Nothing but trolls running this forum now. They take over every thread and spread their negativity.

What did you not understand about the discussion surrounding Melo's contract? Do you not understand that these deals aren't being made in a vacuum? The majority of the disappointment in Melo's deal came from the fact that we don't believe it will be realistically possible to build a contender around Melo considering the salary cap ramifications, our lack of assets, and Melo's age.

The Love contract is a completely different situation. He's going to a team that's already better than the Knicks. He's younger than Melo and probably better. And his contract won't be an albatross when it's ending.

What did you not understand about my posts? People said Melo was selfish for taking the max when other superstars do not do that. Now it turns out all of them take what money is coming to them.

What do you not understand about context? Do you truly not understand that we aren't a good basketball team and the easiest way to improve is with cap space? Or are you being purposely obtuse?

I understand context and I think you are being purposely obtuse. What I don't understand is why you are ONLY policing me about context. Where are you and your context when others on this forum single out Melo and blame him for all of the issues the Knicks are dealing with right now. Also, stop being a dick with the "what do you not understand" line cause you are not the only one who can be a dick.

well seeing as how we are looking at $25mm + in cap space next year you must be creaming your shorts.

Silver.. your spot on. First its Melo is selfish. Oh wait.. all these other guys took crazy money too. OK, well lets switch gears to circumstance and figure out reason why its OK for these guys to cash in but for Melo its bad.

Just goes to show... Phil Jackson, Jesus Christ... it doesnt matter who pulls the strings, guys are going cry and moan

skippy nobody is moving the goalposts here. now that there's a legit frame of reference-- love vis a vis melo-- intellectually honest folks are forced to look at each situation as two different things-- but i think we all understand why you and a couple of other melo desperados run away from intellectual honesty.

mreinman wrote:what? No discount for the team? Another prick.

See what you started?

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible

Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs

He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers

When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team

Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to

Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.

This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////

And have been paid since, of his caliber

Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.

Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?

If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season

Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?

Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value

Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?

Absolutely not

Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career

Absolutely so, and for most of it

I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime

Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team

I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.

I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head

Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought

Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////

Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us

He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material

The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different

Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.

Love is not

Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him

Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him

Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space

They are not?

And we did?

Nope

Cleveland Wiggins 1 body Bennett 1 body

1st rd Pick nobody

Knicks Gallo 1 body, Chandler 1 body, Felton 1 body, Randolph 1 body, Mozgov 1 body, Curry 1 body

2014 1st rd pick nobody, 2016 1st rd pick nobody, 2012 2nd nobody 2013 2nd nobody

How many bodies is Cleveland giving up of value

How many bodies did Knicks give up of value

We gave up 6 bodies to get 5 but only 2 really got legit playing time

We beat them in bodies and nobodies value

At least as of now until we see what the official trade will be.

Do bodies have to be alive or do dead bodies count?

No sane person would say that we gave up more. The possible argument would be that Love is younger and more valuable which is why the price was so high.

2016 first round pick? Uh ... no.

Yeah 2016 pick was a swap option we had with Denver, which was ultimately traded for Bargs

Let me ask you if Phil had all the above at his disposal////

Do you think he brings back more if he had////

Wiggins-Bennett[BUST]-Future protected 1st

or

Gallo very good role player
-injury prone

Chandler very good role player
-injury prone

Anthony Randolph
fringe rotation player

Felton backup point

Mozgov very good role player
[Cavs recently offered 1st for him and were rejected]

Curry-Amar'e like expiring

2014 1st
-lottery

2016 1st
-swap unprotected

2012 2nd
-Cleanthony type pick

2013 2nd
-Cleanthony type pick

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

amare: "hey i have been screwed since melo came here i don't owe the knicks a discount"
love: "lebron james wants me to play with him in cleveland and there's potentially a two year window"

fishmike wrote:funny... Phili just traded your boy Thad Young for that 21 year old BUST in Bennett. Hmmmmmmm

Where did you hear that? Never saw this coming, if true.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?

amare: "hey i have been screwed since melo came here i don't owe the knicks a discount"
love: "lebron james wants me to play with him in cleveland and there's potentially a two year window"

fishmike wrote:funny... Phili just traded your boy Thad Young for that 21 year old BUST in Bennett. Hmmmmmmm

Yeah very similar to trading Calderon for Felton Gun Charge backup.

Wolves probably get the better end as of now, until Bennett proves otherwise

gunsnewing wrote:You guys are all lost comparing the players in the deal. How about the fact that we overpaid for Melo leaving us with no roster flexibility. We won 37 games last year. 54 the year before but flamed out early in the playoffs because we could only afford 49yr olds. Those are facts. The rest are your opinions

how about the post melo moves? Vacuum a bit?

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?

it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.

the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!

back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.

the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.

i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!

so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!

take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suck

what about the rest of the post skippy

Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.

Let's continue to set the fine example, while encouraging him.

Maybe he'll evolve and grow into a role of valued contribution

vegas odds have fishmike making a valid contribution at about 50 to 1, which is coincidentally what the odds the knicks are for winning a title this season.

i disagree with vegas on skippy, i see the odds at closer to the "crushalot max" of around 5000 to 1.