Could it be that maybe Shumpert isn't much more than a good defender that is an inconsistent shooter that fits the mold of so many Knick picks of yesteryear? That has been the MO for guys like Trevor Ariza, who people still seem to get boner for. What they forget is that Ariza always seems to have career years just before his contract expires and then returns to the same inconsistent player that Shumpert is. I much rather trade a guy like that for picks than to re-sign him for significant money. A guy like that isn't worth much more than a 1st and possibly a 2nd. I'd wholeheartedly welcome a trade for Shumpert on those conditions, if that is the offer.

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I would rather trade for a Parsons or Heyward and sign them for $12-15mil

No more $20m+ colossal albatrosses

Im glad your not my GM... go look at Denver's roster. Paying guys like that doesnt work in the NBA. You have two guys combining for star money and have half the impact. And btw.. McDyess was a trade, not a FA. Not fair to bring up stupid Knick moves and say "this is what happens"

worked as far as what? Denver has been better than the knicks since they made the trade.. the 20+ mil bust the knicks have attained has done nothing for us.... why is this so hard to see.. I don't get you and this denver thing.. every situation around the NBA, regardless of what we are talking about, you apply denver... we could be talking about the NBA age limit rule and you will bring up how it hasn't worked for Denver... LOL.. I don't get it.. Denvers top paid player is ty lawson and he makes a little under 12 mil a year, and i can guarantee you, with the exception of just a few teams, he would be starting and that team would be very happy...

I will go as far as to say, dump out two 20 million dollar humps, in carmelo and amare, give me chandler parsons and ty lawson, lance stephenson and paul milsap and we would be MUCH better, and we could get all of them for what we pay our two albatross stars....

Ok so Shumpert potentially becomes a better 4th option than anyone else on that team. They lost because once Ibaka went down it was all Durant/Westbrook while spurs rolled 9-10 deep. Okc would jump on this deal

Steven Adams, Reggie Jackson and Jeremy Lamb are easily better options than Iman, IMO. They actually played key roles in their teams success. Shumpert, on the other hand, has been little more than a hanger-on. The guy has the potential to be a solid role player ala Bruce Bowen or Toney Allen, but he needs to get some consistency. As other guys of that mold have demonstrated (e.g. Trevor Ariza, Thabo Seflosha, Ronnie Brewer, Landry Fields, etc.) though, there is no guarantee that experience will result in any improvement in this respect. The better move is to get rid of Iman now in one of the deepest drafts ever AND before his contract (which plays a significant role in his value) expires. Even if it's a 29th pick, those late picks have produced guys like Tony Parker, Josh Howard, David Lee, Jimmy Butler, Reggie Jackson, Taj Gibson, Nikola Pekovic, Tiago Splitter and Aaron Afflalo. Those type of guys are available in each draft, every year and this draft figures to have a few.

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:So when Shump goes on to average 15 & 5+ elite defense with OKC while sefolosa goes the Ronnie brewer route and the 29th pick gets cut from he dleague. You will see Knicks fans complaining that another one of our young players are flourishing with their teams in the playoffs. Shandon Anderson all over again

Okc, clippers & celtics are desperate for a player like Shumpert. Especially okc where he can become the 3rd wheel to Durant and westbrook

In what world does Iman Shumpert supercede Ibaka's importance? To be perfectly honest, Iman hasn't shown much more than Thabo has and you're pouting about him possibly getting traded, as though he's some kind of star in the making.

Ok so Shumpert potentially becomes a better 4th option than anyone else on that team. They lost because once Ibaka went down it was all Durant/Westbrook while spurs rolled 9-10 deep. Okc would jump on this deal

Jeremy Lamb is already just as good as Iman, albeit in a different way. Whatever the case, Reggie Jackson and Steven Adams are easily better than him and I'd argue that I'd prefer Nick Collision and Perry Jones III on my team over Iman.

gunsnewing wrote:He played much better once Phil mandated that Woodson stop wasting him at the SF and he went back to SG

Knicks desperately needed perimeter defense not having Shumpert try to muscle up bigger SFs

So he can't guard other wings like Toney Allen, Stephenson, Wade, Kobe, Butler, Green, Barnes, Matthews, Afflalo, and etc? This excuse that he guarded 3s is tired. So many other 2s guarded 3s and this year he started out guarding 2s and he was getting beat like a rag doll back door and chasing screens.

Shumpert is a one note defender who struggles in many other areas of defense. He does however show up from time to time to show a glimpse of what a great on ball defender he could be.

The problem is his offense and lack of ability to shoot or make a basket at the rim. Throw in the fact that he has struggles dribbling and passing and you get a bad player. Let him play out the year and see if a team will pull a Toronto when they signed Fields to an offer sheet or cut bait and get some assets for Shump while the NBA thinks he has value.

Bottom line is that Posters will disagree with Shump's ability or lack there of but it is not their decision to trade Shump. How could you disagree with the move if the knicks trade Shump for whatever? In Phil you trust right?

Also, Shump has not been toyed with as other posters claim.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I would rather trade for a Parsons or Heyward and sign them for $12-15mil

No more $20m+ colossal albatrosses

Im glad your not my GM... go look at Denver's roster. Paying guys like that doesnt work in the NBA. You have two guys combining for star money and have half the impact. And btw.. McDyess was a trade, not a FA. Not fair to bring up stupid Knick moves and say "this is what happens"

worked as far as what? Denver has been better than the knicks since they made the trade.. the 20+ mil bust the knicks have attained has done nothing for us.... why is this so hard to see.. I don't get you and this denver thing.. every situation around the NBA, regardless of what we are talking about, you apply denver... we could be talking about the NBA age limit rule and you will bring up how it hasn't worked for Denver... LOL.. I don't get it.. Denvers top paid player is ty lawson and he makes a little under 12 mil a year, and i can guarantee you, with the exception of just a few teams, he would be starting and that team would be very happy...

I will go as far as to say, dump out two 20 million dollar humps, in carmelo and amare, give me chandler parsons and ty lawson, lance stephenson and paul milsap and we would be MUCH better, and we could get all of them for what we pay our two albatross stars....

dont get emotional because I brought up the team that has your avatar Gallo on their roster.

Why Denver? Because Denver is capped out, not a playoff team and they are paying $20mm to Gallo, Chandler and Hickson, all who are good players but low impact guys. NOT the guys you spend $20mm on when your not in the playoffs and have no star or cornerstone to build around.

Ty Lawson is great. Denver may be better then the Knicks since the trade but they arent better. At least with Melo they made the playoffs every year. Now they are capped out hoping guys like Gallo will get healthy so they can take the next step... and get back to where they were when Melo was on the team. You know... winning. The playoffs. Maybe even a chance to advance. As of now they are a lottery team capped out paying role players.

So back to the topic... and Shumpert. Even if Shump has a great season I dont want to pay him $6-$8mm whatever it is *IF* its Phil's intention to let the big contracts come off and use cap space to sign max guys. That money (on Shump) is NOT well spent when I am trying to bring a star into here to play pair with MElo or if he's gone 2+ guys to start building around.

If Phil's intention is to get this squad playing well and then moving Amare/Chandler/Bargs expirings for younger or better guys who have longer deals then this chat is moot anyway... then you just sign Shump and be happy you have him. Capped out = keep your own guys.

back to the topic? I have been on topic.. Listen you can root for any player you want, that is your right, but as a knick fan, i am going to call out those who continue to champion this flawed way of business.. going after flawed max players who are not going to get you to contention. carmelo isn't the building block for a winner, he is more like a helicopter blade on a 3000 piece lego set man..

Why Denver? Because Denver is capped out, not a playoff team and they are paying $20mm to Gallo, Chandler and Hickson, all who are good players but low impact guys. NOT the guys you spend $20mm on when your not in the playoffs and have no star or cornerstone to build around.

low impact guys? they won 57 games with a core of gallo, lawson, faried, and chandler.. come on bro... You keep talking about building around this cornerstone, they are building around a core group of players the way indiana has done, the way the spurs have done.. get your miami pipe dreams out of the way.. those guys had to collude to do what they did and on top of that there are no more wade's and lebrons out there!!

One more thing, the only reason why denver was not in playoff contention is because they were without gallo and mcgee.... what was our excuse?

At least with Melo they made the playoffs every year.

well maybe that bum should have stayed his azz in denver.. don't you think?

and another thing about cap space.. if your boy carmelo opts in, they will have around the same cap space in 2015 as Denver, maybe 5mil less.. and guess what fish..denver will still have all of it's core pieces, plus picks.. which the knicks don't have.. please stop with the ridiculous attempts to try to bring down denver to make you feel better about this nuclear dump called the knicks at this moment..

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I gotcha. That's how you feel

It's how any non-Knick fan would feel. We hype every single young player we have and most are little more than future role players (although that's nothing to scoff at). Channing Frye was suppose to be the next Rasheed Wallace. Trevor Ariza was going to be McGrady. Toney Douglas was suppose to be Jason Terry or Kevin Johnson. Iman Shumpert was suppose to be anything from Latrell Sprewell, to Dwayne Wade, to Michael Jordan. Time and time we do this **** over and over again, and everytime we are way off base. I'm surprised that Tim Hardaway Jr hasn't been hyped into the next Ray Allen.

you have a point.. maybe if we take them for what they are..properly asses the talent and then build accordingly, we would have a good team.. maybe we still have ariza who is a fine all around player.. maybe we still have frye who turned into a pretty decent player and shooter.. again, STARS, true stars, are a rare and hard to come by.. but you can build a team and a culture, and maybe one day you draft a lebron, or wade, or lillard, or paul george.. until then, keep developing what you have, and develop a team and culture in which these types of players can grow into the talent we believe they can be..

tkf wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I gotcha. That's how you feel

It's how any non-Knick fan would feel. We hype every single young player we have and most are little more than future role players (although that's nothing to scoff at). Channing Frye was suppose to be the next Rasheed Wallace. Trevor Ariza was going to be McGrady. Toney Douglas was suppose to be Jason Terry or Kevin Johnson. Iman Shumpert was suppose to be anything from Latrell Sprewell, to Dwayne Wade, to Michael Jordan. Time and time we do this **** over and over again, and everytime we are way off base. I'm surprised that Tim Hardaway Jr hasn't been hyped into the next Ray Allen.

Yea like Trevor Ariza & David Lee

Nate Robinson and many other Knicks fans still crying after watching them play well in the playoffs for their teams

Trevor Ariza isn't that good. He's a decent player but is fool's gold. Like I said before, he only seems to perform during his contract year. He did so once before with the Lakers and ended up cashing in with the Rockets, who he shot 35% from the field for. And believe it or not, someone is going to be dumb enough to think he turned the corner this season and do the same thing.

I can't knock you on David Lee though. Even though he turned himself into an all-star, that still leaves the fan base being wrong about our youth at a 95%-ish rate.

As for Nate Robinson, remind me, how many teams were actually interested in him this past offseason. It wasn't many and there was a reason for that. The guy has game but his skillset is a dime a dozen. I don't think anyone thought that Robinson would be much more than a bench player though.

Nardog, Ariza is that good, at what he does.. he is fools gold if you are trying to think he is the next sprewell.. As I said, properly asses your talent.. David lee is a good talent too... Nate has played a big role on the bulls, but you have to have an environment in which these guys can excel....

Exactly

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I would rather trade for a Parsons or Heyward and sign them for $12-15mil

No more $20m+ colossal albatrosses

Im glad your not my GM... go look at Denver's roster. Paying guys like that doesnt work in the NBA. You have two guys combining for star money and have half the impact. And btw.. McDyess was a trade, not a FA. Not fair to bring up stupid Knick moves and say "this is what happens"

worked as far as what? Denver has been better than the knicks since they made the trade.. the 20+ mil bust the knicks have attained has done nothing for us.... why is this so hard to see.. I don't get you and this denver thing.. every situation around the NBA, regardless of what we are talking about, you apply denver... we could be talking about the NBA age limit rule and you will bring up how it hasn't worked for Denver... LOL.. I don't get it.. Denvers top paid player is ty lawson and he makes a little under 12 mil a year, and i can guarantee you, with the exception of just a few teams, he would be starting and that team would be very happy...

I will go as far as to say, dump out two 20 million dollar humps, in carmelo and amare, give me chandler parsons and ty lawson, lance stephenson and paul milsap and we would be MUCH better, and we could get all of them for what we pay our two albatross stars....

dont get emotional because I brought up the team that has your avatar Gallo on their roster.

Why Denver? Because Denver is capped out, not a playoff team and they are paying $20mm to Gallo, Chandler and Hickson, all who are good players but low impact guys. NOT the guys you spend $20mm on when your not in the playoffs and have no star or cornerstone to build around.

Ty Lawson is great. Denver may be better then the Knicks since the trade but they arent better. At least with Melo they made the playoffs every year. Now they are capped out hoping guys like Gallo will get healthy so they can take the next step... and get back to where they were when Melo was on the team. You know... winning. The playoffs. Maybe even a chance to advance. As of now they are a lottery team capped out paying role players.

So back to the topic... and Shumpert. Even if Shump has a great season I dont want to pay him $6-$8mm whatever it is *IF* its Phil's intention to let the big contracts come off and use cap space to sign max guys. That money (on Shump) is NOT well spent when I am trying to bring a star into here to play pair with MElo or if he's gone 2+ guys to start building around.

If Phil's intention is to get this squad playing well and then moving Amare/Chandler/Bargs expirings for younger or better guys who have longer deals then this chat is moot anyway... then you just sign Shump and be happy you have him. Capped out = keep your own guys.

back to the topic? I have been on topic.. Listen you can root for any player you want, that is your right, but as a knick fan, i am going to call out those who continue to champion this flawed way of business.. going after flawed max players who are not going to get you to contention. carmelo isn't the building block for a winner, he is more like a helicopter blade on a 3000 piece lego set man..

Why Denver? Because Denver is capped out, not a playoff team and they are paying $20mm to Gallo, Chandler and Hickson, all who are good players but low impact guys. NOT the guys you spend $20mm on when your not in the playoffs and have no star or cornerstone to build around.

low impact guys? they won 57 games with a core of gallo, lawson, faried, and chandler.. come on bro... You keep talking about building around this cornerstone, they are building around a core group of players the way indiana has done, the way the spurs have done.. get your miami pipe dreams out of the way.. those guys had to collude to do what they did and on top of that there are no more wade's and lebrons out there!!

One more thing, the only reason why denver was not in playoff contention is because they were without gallo and mcgee.... what was our excuse?

At least with Melo they made the playoffs every year.

well maybe that bum should have stayed his azz in denver.. don't you think?

and another thing about cap space.. if your boy carmelo opts in, they will have around the same cap space in 2015 as Denver, maybe 5mil less.. and guess what fish..denver will still have all of it's core pieces, plus picks.. which the knicks don't have.. please stop with the ridiculous attempts to try to bring down denver to make you feel better about this nuclear dump called the knicks at this moment..