tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:wasnt Karl also the coach of that Sonics team that almost won 70 games and got bounced in the first round by the 8th seeded Mutumbo's Nuggets? Thats the coach your talking about right? that Sea team had what? 3 HOFs and other all-stars and your pumping up his playoff record?

But i will break it down more for you fish...

What I see you broke down for me is that a lottery franchise added a perennial all star and hall of fame player and went from the lottery to winning 50ish games every year. Pretty clear thats what happened.

lets check the facts bro
Karls's Sonics: 63wins first round exit. 57 wins first rount exit and the two years after their one good run to the finals they got spanked in the 2nd round. But yea... Detlef, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins, Kemp, Nate McMillon, Gill... that team was deep and loaded but keep telling yourself Karl did a great job. Wow.. in 6 years he took a team with a HOF PG and a bunch of all stars on one good run.

How about you explain to me how Kevin Garnett was a playoff loser (when he actually made it in) for a decade? Did he finally find good coaching or did he actually join a better team? Please tell.. I dont seem to understand how this team thing works. Your facts seem to help. Bro.

I DON'T KNOW what you are trying to argue.. do you? at some point fish every great coach will probably experience a first round loss, as will every great player.. so far lebron has not....to name one.... I think even phil had a first round exit...

what we are talking about fish is what they have done.. karl has been to a few confrence finals and a NBA finals... he has done so without carmelo.. carmelo hasn't done so without karl. his only visit to a confrence final was with karl...

Yes that sonics team was good, and had a REAL franchise player in gary payton.. that is the point... carmelo just isn't that dude!!!!

As far as garnett... all I know is that he has a ring and been to two finals.. when carmelo leaves the knicks and goes to another team and has that type of success than talk to me.. There is nothing to explain about garnett.. he is a champion..

If you are going to bring up other players to help your argument.. let them at least ... help your argument... bringing up champions isn't going to help... Garnett is a franchise changer.. he did so with boston. carmelo came here and failed... can you explain that?

Papabear Says

We must remember phill Jackson won each championship with the very best player in the league. Now if you have Melo and another superstar then thats a start.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Jordan couldn't advance either in the playoffs when he did get there. Are we going to hold that against him too? arguably the greatest of all time. Why are people being so hard on KG? Another all time great. Multi-faceted game changer. Like I said even the best players need help. In Melos case he needs a lot of help or a Batman to his Robin. It ain't that complicated

I agree. So why are folks so desperate to get rid of him rather then get help? I mean look around... the elite teams all have 2+ stars

We have one. Need another. Amare isnt it. Chandler isnt it. Lets get another. I agree... it aint that complicated. The time to rebuild is after Melo's next contract, not after this one. As bad as this team played Im quite sure he can sustain a high level of play for the next 3-4 years. Bottom line is his legs are still springy after all the mileage. He needs a stud guard. Is it Rondo next year? I dont know... but I agree! Its not that complicated..

the elite teams have good all around talent, and their best player is usually a good leader and solid all around player.. carmelo is neither... I mean do you really think it makes sense comparing carmelo's situation to Jordan, or Garnett, or Dirk... you first have to start with this fish... all of those guys are miles ahead of carmelo.. they are so much better.. building teams around players who can lead and who are complete is a lot different than building around such a flawed player...

Your problem is that you overvalue carmelo.. why? who knows... having one flat tire and adding 3 good ones around it won't make the car ride any better...

LOOOL ha ha ha

gunsnewing wrote:Sounds good^ Last time a coach try to get Melo to play in a team oriented system that coach was fired. If Melo buys in like you are suggesting than great. What happens when he needs shoulder surgery or any kind of knee surgery from having logged over a decade of minutes?

gunsnewing wrote:H20 mcdyess and Amare yea insurance did us a world of good

Dice and Amare came to us as injured goods....your logic doesn't make any sense...

gunsnewing wrote:He is 30 and has logged a ton of minutes. Next year will be his 12th season. For a guy who lacks a motor and is not a consistent defender and slow footed defender I'd be weary of maxing him out

Max? That's a huge overstatement. We could give him a contract bigger than Amare's and that still wouldn't even be the max

SEASON	 TEAM  GP  GS  MIN   FGM-A     FG%   3PM-A    3P%   FTM-A    FT%   OR   DR   REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF   TO   PTS
'09-'10	 PHX   82  82  34.6  8.6-15.4  .557  0.0-0.1  .167  5.9-7.7  .771  2.8  6.1  8.9  1.0  1.0  0.6  3.4  2.6  23.1
'10-'11	 NY    78  78  36.8  9.5-19.0  .502  0.1-0.3  .435  6.1-7.7  .792  2.5	5.6  8.2  2.6  1.9  0.9	 3.5  3.2  25.3
'11-'12  NY    47  47  32.8  6.7-13.9  .483  0.1-0.4  .238  4.0-5.2  .765  2.3	5.6  7.8  1.1  1.0  0.8	 2.9  2.4  17.5
'12-'13	 NY    29  0   23.5  5.3-9.2   .577  0.0-0.0  .000  3.6-4.5  .808  2.1	2.9  5.0  0.4  0.7  0.3	 3.1  1.7  14.2
'13-'14	 NY    63  19  22.6  4.8-8.7   .558  0.0-0.0  .000  2.2-3.0  .729  1.7	3.2  5.0  0.5  0.6  0.4	 2.5  1.4  11.9

2009-10 Playoffs
G   GS	MP    FG  FGA	FG%   3P   3PA	 3P%  2P   2PA	 2P%   FT  FTA  FT%  ORB  DRB  TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
16  16  36.5  7.8 14.9  .519  0.0  0.3  .000  7.8  14.7  .528  6.7 8.9  .754  2.9 3.8  6.6  1.1  0.7  1.5  2.5  3.4 22.2

In terms of Amar'e and his efficiency he's been really good except for the injuries. It was asked by some on this forum if we would bring some of his trainers from PHX since they did so well or at least copy the same regimen and instead we did the opposite. MDA used him up and he eventually broke down. It's as if no one on the Knicks ever heard about the concerns PHX had or how they handled him. If anything the Knicks should've used Amar'e a little less and tried to preserve him, but as usual because MDA was looking to win after 2 years of losing, get into the playoffs as per Dolan's directive, there was no attention paid to this critical need.

Now it's Melo who has been driven into the ground. Gotta hope Phil can solve this problem once and for all.