Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I think you guys are selling him short. I've had my issues with Melo but he is worth $17-23 for a 5 year duration to us. He's not just another glen Robinson, Mitch Richmond vin baker career loser. My problem is with people who put him on the same pedestal as Jordan Lebron and Kobe and want to max him out. Give him everything and he he'll with the cap and draft picks and assets

He is good enough to single handey get you in the playoffs which we saw last year and most of his career in Denver. That is valuable.

Question is what is the New York knickerbockers brain trust plan going forward. Are we going to be patient and add the right pieces around Melo or are we going all out for Kevin Love to form he worse defensive front out in NBA history? Or are we going after more players with a few acl, micro fracture surgeries under their belts?

Melo resigning for $17-23 allows you to add the right pieces if you are patient

This to me is impartial and how I feel. I hate parts of his game (e.g. 0.4 assists in the 4th quarter) but I will not grossly underestimated him either because of personal distaste.

Yea definitely and subpar defense whether it's at SF or PF. This is where he really falls incredibly short of the true greats

I don't think we will ever win in the playoffs with Melo playing PF.

We need an athletic rugged monster of a man next to him like a David West

THen you need a pg leader to get the ball out of his ISO hands in the 4th

Yes. And that is part of the reason why he is not top 5 but top 15.

What would get him up there?

47% FG
4.5 assist per
20 pct better defense

I believe these adjustments to his game which he is definitely capable of doing if he bought into them, would make all the difference.

You're signing him for his 12th to 16th seasons. It's much more likely that all his numbers will go down, not up.

I think for at least the first 2-3 years they can certainly go up if he looked less for contested shots and more for his teammates.

Pierce did it later in his career (became a better more efficient player), I think Melo can as well.

Who says you get less efficient with age?

I said most likely. You can even be a professional pitcher at age 45. Melo could peak at 37 for all we know but we're talking here about making decisions that are *likely* to pay off.

"most likely"

I would assume that there is data to back this up. If a player slows down, maybe they also get smarter and take higher percentage shots and pass more.

Maybe you do have stats for this, not saying you are wrong. Just want to know what you are basing that on. Hard to make a comparison to a pitcher.

How about Garnett? He seems to have gotten more efficient with age. Karl Malone ...

Yeah, David Berri and others have published data on this. The average player peaks in the mid to late 20s. (I think the peak years were 24 to 28.) Then there is normally a sharp decline at around age 30. If a player has logged huge minutes, you might worry that the decline will be particularly sharp. Clearly anything can happen, and in a league that has 350 players per year, you will find some examples that defy this trend. That doesn't mean it's smart to assume any one specific individual will defy the trend when you're handing out contracts though.

I know Berri's publishing about peak age, however, I could not find any as where it related to efficiency. Certainly less productive as players hit 30.

Papabear wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I've written about it elsewhere but a scoring specialist who's about average in all other areas of the game? Based on looking at his advanced stats and considering age, I'd say around 4 years, $52 mil. Because I can't imagine he'd accept that, I also said we should have traded him. That's if you're asking me as a fan, not a shareholder.
From a shareholder's perspective (meaning I just wanted $$$), I'd probably offer him a few min total salary above whatever other teams are willing to offer. (I think that was something around $95 mil if I remember right.)

After state and nyc income tax that is down to almost 11 mil a year. If he is making that kind of money he goes to the Heat to get a championship.

So be it. That's why I said I'd trade him. As a fan, I'm not afraid to depart from the .500 Melo era and start over.

Papabear Says

Bonn I say win now. I've been waiting for 40 years for a championship. I have more years behind me than in front of me. I don't want to wait 4 or 5 years. I want it now. or next season or the following season but not no 4 - 5 years from now.

That is what knick fans demand every year and that is why we are in this bloody mess. At some point we need to stop and make a few year plan.

You want Tyreke Evans, Jennings, Nick Young, Josh Smith? How about Boozer? Paul Gasol?

We need to stop bringing in sh1tty players and hoping that we can un**** them

Papabear Says

To me it was more like poor management decisions. It's not what you bring in it is who you bring in. The Celtics brought in just 2 guys to make the differences . Garnet and Ray Allen and Boston won a championship. So don't tell me to wait. They must make smart choices.

And who do we give up to get Allen / Garnett types?

What players and what picks?

Of course it was poor management decision because because of their fanbase they constantly starphuck.

Were you for the Bargs trade? How about the CB / Tyson move? Amare? Were you for signing Felton? Prigs? MWP? Camby?

I was lukewarm on the Melo trade but was deadly against all the above (when they happened).

Our best move was to sell the house at the deadline and rebuilt in 2015. As always we phucked that one up because of our idiot leadership and impatient fan base.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I've written about it elsewhere but a scoring specialist who's about average in all other areas of the game? Based on looking at his advanced stats and considering age, I'd say around 4 years, $52 mil. Because I can't imagine he'd accept that, I also said we should have traded him. That's if you're asking me as a fan, not a shareholder.
From a shareholder's perspective (meaning I just wanted $$$), I'd probably offer him a few min total salary above whatever other teams are willing to offer. (I think that was something around $95 mil if I remember right.)

After state and nyc income tax that is down to almost 11 mil a year. If he is making that kind of money he goes to the Heat to get a championship.

So be it. That's why I said I'd trade him. As a fan, I'm not afraid to depart from the .500 Melo era and start over.

Papabear Says

Bonn I say win now. I've been waiting for 40 years for a championship. I have more years behind me than in front of me. I don't want to wait 4 or 5 years. I want it now. or next season or the following season but not no 4 - 5 years from now.

Clearly win now doesn't = keep Melo.
That doesn't mean he can't be part of a winning team but keeping him is not a prerequisite, and at a high salary, it would be an obstacle.

You know Bonn I'm so disgusted I really don't care who comes or go now. All I wan't to see is 5 players on the court playing their hearts out and a coach who knows what he is doing and can motivate the players. You see being a Knicks fan can wear you down. I had so much hope for this season. I didn't expect a championship but I expected 5 players playing smart basketball. So I'm not in fight mode. I'm just in disappointment mode. Hell I don't even want to debate. It is what it is. I think I might go to the movie.

mreinman wrote:

Papabear wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I've written about it elsewhere but a scoring specialist who's about average in all other areas of the game? Based on looking at his advanced stats and considering age, I'd say around 4 years, $52 mil. Because I can't imagine he'd accept that, I also said we should have traded him. That's if you're asking me as a fan, not a shareholder.
From a shareholder's perspective (meaning I just wanted $$$), I'd probably offer him a few min total salary above whatever other teams are willing to offer. (I think that was something around $95 mil if I remember right.)

After state and nyc income tax that is down to almost 11 mil a year. If he is making that kind of money he goes to the Heat to get a championship.

So be it. That's why I said I'd trade him. As a fan, I'm not afraid to depart from the .500 Melo era and start over.

Papabear Says

Bonn I say win now. I've been waiting for 40 years for a championship. I have more years behind me than in front of me. I don't want to wait 4 or 5 years. I want it now. or next season or the following season but not no 4 - 5 years from now.

That is what knick fans demand every year and that is why we are in this bloody mess. At some point we need to stop and make a few year plan.

You want Tyreke Evans, Jennings, Nick Young, Josh Smith? How about Boozer? Paul Gasol?

We need to stop bringing in sh1tty players and hoping that we can un**** them

Papabear Says

To me it was more like poor management decisions. It's not what you bring in it is who you bring in. The Celtics brought in just 2 guys to make the differences . Garnet and Ray Allen and Boston won a championship. So don't tell me to wait. They must make smart choices.

And who do we give up to get Allen / Garnett types?

What players and what picks?

Of course it was poor management decision because because of their fanbase they constantly starphuck.

Were you for the Bargs trade? How about the CB / Tyson move? Amare? Were you for signing Felton? Prigs? MWP? Camby?

I was lukewarm on the Melo trade but was deadly against all the above (when they happened).

Our best move was to sell the house at the deadline and rebuilt in 2015. As always we phucked that one up because of our idiot leadership and impatient fan base.

Look if we had the same offer out there to get Garnett we would have gotten turned down. This deal was the Boston Celtics ol boys club deal made by 2 ex Celtics helping each other. We wouldn't have gotten Garnet if we had a better offer and you know it. Papabear gone to the movie.

markvmc wrote:And Anthony could still be a superstar (or begin to be) his first year or two of his next contract. But it's unlikely he will be worth his salary (even by inflated superstar rates) the remaining 4 or 5 years of it. So it comes down to this: do you think that the Knicks front office can surround him with the role players he needs to win during the next two years, given how hamstrung they will be due to Anthony's salary, together with the salaries that currently extend the next couple of years?

There is no way the knicks can surround him with a team that can win. Certainly not next year.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Yeah, David Berri and others have published data on this. The average player peaks in the mid to late 20s. (I think the peak years were 24 to 28.) Then there is normally a sharp decline at around age 30. If a player has logged huge minutes, you might worry that the decline will be particularly sharp. Clearly anything can happen, and in a league that has 350 players per year, you will find some examples that defy this trend. That doesn't mean it's smart to assume any one specific individual will defy the trend when you're handing out contracts though.

I don't believe that- in terms of athleticism and the physical side of things there is a decline, but the best players compensate by improving their wisdom, basketball experience, leadership etc- i.e. intangibles which you can't really quantify. There are very few good players who I would say were at their best before they turned 30 (athletically yes, but overall no).

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Yeah, David Berri and others have published data on this. The average player peaks in the mid to late 20s. (I think the peak years were 24 to 28.) Then there is normally a sharp decline at around age 30. If a player has logged huge minutes, you might worry that the decline will be particularly sharp. Clearly anything can happen, and in a league that has 350 players per year, you will find some examples that defy this trend. That doesn't mean it's smart to assume any one specific individual will defy the trend when you're handing out contracts though.

I don't believe that- in terms of athleticism and the physical side of things there is a decline, but the best players compensate by improving their wisdom, basketball experience, leadership etc- i.e. intangibles which you can't really quantify. There are very few good players who I would say were at their best before they turned 30 (athletically yes, but overall no).