Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

I love how to say Houston took a small gamble, even though they traded a better package than we gave for Melo. (Guaranteed lottery pick, 1 good rookie prospect, 1 SG who averaged 20+ plus per game.) and harden was what 23 when he went to Houston and Melo 26 when he went to ny. You just overexaggerate like crazy.

ah dude, your act is so played out... you so keep wanting to trash what the knicks gave up.. it is silly.. the knicks gave up a lottery pick in gallo, a talent in chandler, 4 draft picks one of them most likely a lottery pick as well... so now I guess you want to join me and 3g in big upping kevin martin now, right? rofl.. it was a small gamble because..

they were not keeping kevin martin..

They already had young talent, losing lamb was no big deal

and oh, harden was already a good talent, I meant small gamble meaning small gamble in Harden.. they knew he was good, just not how good.. so it wasn't like they were taking a long shot on an unproven talent.. harden everyone knew was good.. just not to what extent..

again, this went right over your head because you are so hell bent on trashing what the knicks gave up to get suckmelo...

get over it dude... you are fighing a losing battle..

let me ask this to show you how ridiculosly silly your post was..

Do you think getting harden was a HUGE gamble.. considering they had no plans for martin? and all you are giving up is Jeremy lamb and another pick? do you consider that a HUGE gamble for harden? You don't drain your assets, you don't cripple your cap, and you leave your team with enough talent to compete as in the evidence of their season last year..... LOL you are not built for this bro..

YOU ARE NOT BUILT FOR THIS should be your signature since you love it so much. You are talking about me trashing what the Knicks gave up yet you are doing the complete opposite loving them and downplaying Houston's package. Houston gave up the best proven player, the best draft pick (it was a given that it was going to be lottery), and the best prospect on a brand new rookie contract. If you looked at is as a pretend GM instead of a pretend fan you would view a lot of things different. Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one. Instead you remain obsessed with the Knicks draining assets, despite still having the 2011 pick (Shumpert), Fields, and Billups expiring contract. So how about YOU aren't built for this bro.

They gave up and appropriate package for Harden who was a 23 year old budding star with all of his best years ahead of him.. they also gave up what was surplus to them..

WE didn't!!!

Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one.

so obviously you polled every GM? stop with this best proven player.. HOUSTON WAS NOT GOING TO KEEP KEVIN MARTIN, THEY EVEN WERE MESSING WITH HIS MINUTES...

Gallo was a knick lottery pick, part of their future and starting rotation.. they also gave up 4 picks, two of them most likely lottery.... cap space, chandler moz.... You keep talking about the better package.. the knicks gave up all of their assets.. the rockets gave up surplus... why is that so hard for you to understand?

we could not afford to lose gallo, chandler, moz, and 4 picks!!!

rockets gave up less and still got the better player...

and since you are into polling GM's I am sure every GM would not have given up what the knicks did for carmelo.. here is the key, the rockets can trade harden and get back a similar package... Knicks can't!!!!!!!!

But I am about to close the book on yo azz... the rockets traded picks that were not theirs, they were picks from dallas and toronto, dallas is a playoff caliber team, the toronto pick is lottery protected top 20 from 2012-2017, it is unprotected in 2018!!! and guess what, the raps with uri as their GM will most likely be a good team by then...

The rockets protected their picks.. the knicks didn't... NO jimmy hat for the knicks.. again, the knicks gave a greater package as one of the knicks picks can be a top pick in this deep draft..

you lose again homie..

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

I love how to say Houston took a small gamble, even though they traded a better package than we gave for Melo. (Guaranteed lottery pick, 1 good rookie prospect, 1 SG who averaged 20+ plus per game.) and harden was what 23 when he went to Houston and Melo 26 when he went to ny. You just overexaggerate like crazy.

ah dude, your act is so played out... you so keep wanting to trash what the knicks gave up.. it is silly.. the knicks gave up a lottery pick in gallo, a talent in chandler, 4 draft picks one of them most likely a lottery pick as well... so now I guess you want to join me and 3g in big upping kevin martin now, right? rofl.. it was a small gamble because..

they were not keeping kevin martin..

They already had young talent, losing lamb was no big deal

and oh, harden was already a good talent, I meant small gamble meaning small gamble in Harden.. they knew he was good, just not how good.. so it wasn't like they were taking a long shot on an unproven talent.. harden everyone knew was good.. just not to what extent..

again, this went right over your head because you are so hell bent on trashing what the knicks gave up to get suckmelo...

get over it dude... you are fighing a losing battle..

let me ask this to show you how ridiculosly silly your post was..

Do you think getting harden was a HUGE gamble.. considering they had no plans for martin? and all you are giving up is Jeremy lamb and another pick? do you consider that a HUGE gamble for harden? You don't drain your assets, you don't cripple your cap, and you leave your team with enough talent to compete as in the evidence of their season last year..... LOL you are not built for this bro..

YOU ARE NOT BUILT FOR THIS should be your signature since you love it so much. You are talking about me trashing what the Knicks gave up yet you are doing the complete opposite loving them and downplaying Houston's package. Houston gave up the best proven player, the best draft pick (it was a given that it was going to be lottery), and the best prospect on a brand new rookie contract. If you looked at is as a pretend GM instead of a pretend fan you would view a lot of things different. Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one. Instead you remain obsessed with the Knicks draining assets, despite still having the 2011 pick (Shumpert), Fields, and Billups expiring contract. So how about YOU aren't built for this bro.

They gave up and appropriate package for Harden who was a 23 year old budding star with all of his best years ahead of him.. they also gave up what was surplus to them..

WE didn't!!!

Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one.

so obviously you polled every GM? stop with this best proven player.. HOUSTON WAS NOT GOING TO KEEP KEVIN MARTIN, THEY EVEN WERE MESSING WITH HIS MINUTES...

Gallo was a knick lottery pick, part of their future and starting rotation.. they also gave up 4 picks, two of them most likely lottery.... cap space, chandler moz.... You keep talking about the better package.. the knicks gave up all of their assets.. the rockets gave up surplus... why is that so hard for you to understand?

we could not afford to lose gallo, chandler, moz, and 4 picks!!!

rockets gave up less and still got the better player...

and since you are into polling GM's I am sure every GM would not have given up what the knicks did for carmelo.. here is the key, the rockets can trade harden and get back a similar package... Knicks can't!!!!!!!!

So a resigned Melo couldn't get back 3 role players (all on long term contracts), 1 first round pick, the right to swap picks, and 2 2nd rounders from anyone? Ok lol. And like i said, Houston did not give up less. Look at the numbers. Martin is one of the better scorers in the league and besides a down year due to injury, was a 23 PPG scorer. You are just overrating our former players and picks by ignoring some of the details.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

I love how to say Houston took a small gamble, even though they traded a better package than we gave for Melo. (Guaranteed lottery pick, 1 good rookie prospect, 1 SG who averaged 20+ plus per game.) and harden was what 23 when he went to Houston and Melo 26 when he went to ny. You just overexaggerate like crazy.

ah dude, your act is so played out... you so keep wanting to trash what the knicks gave up.. it is silly.. the knicks gave up a lottery pick in gallo, a talent in chandler, 4 draft picks one of them most likely a lottery pick as well... so now I guess you want to join me and 3g in big upping kevin martin now, right? rofl.. it was a small gamble because..

they were not keeping kevin martin..

They already had young talent, losing lamb was no big deal

and oh, harden was already a good talent, I meant small gamble meaning small gamble in Harden.. they knew he was good, just not how good.. so it wasn't like they were taking a long shot on an unproven talent.. harden everyone knew was good.. just not to what extent..

again, this went right over your head because you are so hell bent on trashing what the knicks gave up to get suckmelo...

get over it dude... you are fighing a losing battle..

let me ask this to show you how ridiculosly silly your post was..

Do you think getting harden was a HUGE gamble.. considering they had no plans for martin? and all you are giving up is Jeremy lamb and another pick? do you consider that a HUGE gamble for harden? You don't drain your assets, you don't cripple your cap, and you leave your team with enough talent to compete as in the evidence of their season last year..... LOL you are not built for this bro..

YOU ARE NOT BUILT FOR THIS should be your signature since you love it so much. You are talking about me trashing what the Knicks gave up yet you are doing the complete opposite loving them and downplaying Houston's package. Houston gave up the best proven player, the best draft pick (it was a given that it was going to be lottery), and the best prospect on a brand new rookie contract. If you looked at is as a pretend GM instead of a pretend fan you would view a lot of things different. Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one. Instead you remain obsessed with the Knicks draining assets, despite still having the 2011 pick (Shumpert), Fields, and Billups expiring contract. So how about YOU aren't built for this bro.

They gave up and appropriate package for Harden who was a 23 year old budding star with all of his best years ahead of him.. they also gave up what was surplus to them..

WE didn't!!!

Every GM in the league takes that package over Gallo (ending rookie contract), Chandler (ending rookie contract), 2014 pick, 2016 swap, and Moz. Every one.

so obviously you polled every GM? stop with this best proven player.. HOUSTON WAS NOT GOING TO KEEP KEVIN MARTIN, THEY EVEN WERE MESSING WITH HIS MINUTES...

Gallo was a knick lottery pick, part of their future and starting rotation.. they also gave up 4 picks, two of them most likely lottery.... cap space, chandler moz.... You keep talking about the better package.. the knicks gave up all of their assets.. the rockets gave up surplus... why is that so hard for you to understand?

we could not afford to lose gallo, chandler, moz, and 4 picks!!!

rockets gave up less and still got the better player...

and since you are into polling GM's I am sure every GM would not have given up what the knicks did for carmelo.. here is the key, the rockets can trade harden and get back a similar package... Knicks can't!!!!!!!!

So a resigned Melo couldn't get back 3 role players (all on long term contracts), 1 first round pick, the right to swap picks, and 2 2nd rounders from anyone? Ok lol. And like i said, Houston did not give up less. Look at the numbers. Martin is one of the better scorers in the league and besides a down year due to injury, was a 23 PPG scorer. You are just overrating our former players and picks by ignoring some of the details.

HELL NO!! NOT two players young 23 year old players with upside like gallo and chandler were at the time and both averaging 15ppg on a team with a winning record.. along with unprotected picks!!! NOOOOOOOO!! who trades unprotected picks.. except the knicks..

the rockets traded picks that were not only theirs but had protection...

STOP IT WITH KEVIN MARTIN.. i AM AS BIG OF A MARTIN FAN AS THERE IS.. BUT THE ROCKETS WERE NOT KEEPING MARTIN.. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND.. HOUSTON GAVE UP LESS AS IN MARTIN WAS NOT IN THIER PLANS, AND THEY GAVEUP PROTECTED PICKS!! THOSE ARE THE DAMN DETAILS.. JEEZ.. LOL

We agree about the protection on the picks. Yes, that was dumb. Always need to have insurance no matter who you are trading for. That being said, i don't care what you think the Rockets plans were with Martin. He was a better player than anyone the Knicks traded. And the draft pick was the most valuable piece in the deal also. Gallo and Chandler were about to get paid. If they were earlier in their rookie contracts like Lamb was i would say they held more value. It was a great package for Denver considering the position they were in, we bailed them out. But they wouldn't have made that trade if Melo either A. didn't force a trade and wanted to resign in denver or B. said he was willing to go to other teams. That's all that we need to know about how Denver really viewed the Knicks as a trade partner. You would have had your wish because he would have been sent to NJ/BK for Favors (a top prospect early in rookie contract) and 4 first round picks, among other things.

I bet you that team right there with a few FA vets on the cheap would be better than the 7-17 mess we have right now... and we would have a cap friendly team with all of our picks still.. now imagining that team winning 38 games , missing the playoffs and ending up with parker or wiggins..

go figure...

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

With everything you know, your really going to blame Walsh for Amare's contract?

Nalod wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

With everything you know, your really going to blame Walsh for Amare's contract?

Should have amnestied Amare's contract. That blunder is up there with letting Lin go and trading all our assets for Melo.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

With everything you know, your really going to blame Walsh for Amare's contract?

Should have amnestied Amare's contract. That blunder is up there with letting Lin go and trading all our assets for Melo.

Everyone is so quick to talk about losing all those assets for Melo, yet we let Fields and Lin, our 2 best assets at the time, walk for nothing. So let Lin walk, trade future assets to replace him with Felton, etc. That is poor decision making that has nothing to do with the Melo trade. We had assets after the deal but let them walk for nothing. We could have found a way to salvage future picks for Lin and Fields at the very least.

LETTING lin walk was ridiculous.. giving up all of those assets for carmelo was criminal...

NYKBocker wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

With everything you know, your really going to blame Walsh for Amare's contract?

Should have amnestied Amare's contract. That blunder is up there with letting Lin go and trading all our assets for Melo.

Everyone is so quick to talk about losing all those assets for Melo, yet we let Fields and Lin, our 2 best assets at the time, walk for nothing. So let Lin walk, trade future assets to replace him with Felton, etc. That is poor decision making that has nothing to do with the Melo trade. We had assets after the deal but let them walk for nothing. We could have found a way to salvage future picks for Lin and Fields at the very least.

LETTING lin walk was ridiculous.. giving up all of those assets for carmelo was criminal...

In both situations we were Dolanized.

yep!!

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

BS. You can exclude Amare and we still have more money spent on our roster than half the teams in the league, including many good teams. That's just an excuse for the fact that the rest of the roster is poorly constructed.

Once we sign Melo to 130 our team will be at 42-44mm in caps space with the same players we have now-Tyson Chandler

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

tkf wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:And you give up a lot of assets when you trade for the player

True, but if you get the RIGHT superstar, the assets hardly matter. Here's an example...

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

Do you know what that list is?

That's what Cleveland got from Miami in exchange for LeBron James (raise your hand if you remember this was actually a sign-and-trade), and none of these assets matter because they were traded for the right superstar.

Obviously it's MUCH better to draft your superstar(s) (because really you need more than 1 these days). The reality is, most draft picks simply don't work out. However, draft picks aren't SO invaluable that you just throw them away for cap relief.

It's also usually pretty easy to tell whether your're good or bad and can give up draft picks, but miscalculating is dangergous.

exactly, if you trade for the right superstar, but here is the key, you either have to get him early ala harden and you don't spend as much acquiring him.. teams knew he was good, but not that good... Houston took a small gamble and it paid off, I say kudos to them...

or you get colusiongate and have a lebron fall in your lap... otherwiese these "true" superstars are never traded.. Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, wade, Duncan, those guys are not getting traded in their prime, they just aren't.. no matter how much they scream and yell... teams don't trade those guys... they either leave via FA... or they stay and win....

Carmelo forced a trade, but he is not in the class with these other guys... we traded way too much to get a Allstar player.. not a superstar. and it is killing us now...

James Harden isn't in the class of those players either.

The Melo trade isn't the issue. The Amare contract is. Donnie Walsh made a horrendous signing in 2010 when that money could have been better spent. That's the issue with the team.

BS. You can exclude Amare and we still have more money spent on our roster than half the teams in the league, including many good teams. That's just an excuse for the fact that the rest of the roster is poorly constructed.

We went over the cap to retain players or ones we acquired in a trade. The problem was not the Melo trade. It was the moves after. Picking up Billups for 14 mil then amnesty him. Wtf? Why pick it up to begin with. The Chandler move was awful given the roster and the fact that he is also injury prone. And. .here were are

the trade was worse than all of those moves put together. the sooner fans come to terms with this the sooner the healing begins..