JR has similar ability and similar stories of the franchise in need of their talents and willing to put up with the darker side. Their inability to control emotions often led to fights, technical fouls and head-scratching, careless decisions. It makes Knicks fans gag. The lapses in judgment – like throwing balls out of bounds at crucial moments – all come with the territory. Starks played with a bigger heart and off the court made better decisions. I think Starks back ground made him more appreciative of the opportunity and he enjoyed the celebrity. JR takes things for granted and is careless.

Starks had been given coaching opportunities with an ABA team in the last 10 years (some scrub league attempt) and to be with the knicks. I suppose for what ever reason it never advanced.

For fans to imply that a player can some how teach motivation is a far gone conclusion. Great coaches will tell you it can't be done at the professional level.

Starks could give you "The Dunk", "The head butt" an other wonderful moments but he also gave us fits. Same for Mason, who many forgot was exiled for his partying ways. When found in a limo with naked 14 year old girls it was time to jettison him for value where we ate LJ's contract as the prerequisite. LJ's leadership and work ethic fit into the slug like offense we ran during the post Nellie era.

If we stayed with Nellie and traded or let ewing walk will always be the turning point of the franchise for that era.

JVG in 1999 was enroute to getting fired as his roster constructed by Grunfeld was run and gun and he preferred a system that catered to Ewings game. He owed his head coaching career to Patrick. Naturally Grunfeld had to go after '99. If we could have parlayed ewing into an appreciating asset instead of resigning him to a mega contract and watch him decline the franchise history could even to this day be much different. MSG was scared of what the box office reaction would be. Instead MSG held on which gave us the 99' thrill but eventually turned into the unbalanced roster that JVG walked away from homogenized yawnfest that was Layden and eventually became the Reign of terror that was Isiah (trading away picks for players while the win count does not materialize). We are experiencing this again.

While Nellie might not have achieved a championship and might have hit a brief rough patch, the benefit of hindsight shows that would have been a speedbump compared to what would eventually happen.

Nellie? Are you kidding me? It sounds like you are saying Nellie was a good thing for NY?? Nellie was not made for NY. He was sloppy, did not worry about D and never won crap as a coach in the post season. You can blame the KNicks for many things but getting rid of Nellie is not one of them, IMO.

The Knicks need a good D coach to get the most out of the personnel here and to inspire the GM to get more D minded players. On offense, they need to share the ball, make it move and get as many easy baskets as possible. Melo should be setting up his teammates the whole game and then scoring on weakside cuts. The problem is that he hates to move unless he has the ball.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Thanks for the correction about SVG. I forgot that they lost in the finals to LA.

Nellie? Are you kidding me? It sounds like you are saying Nellie was a good thing for NY?? Nellie was not made for NY. He was sloppy, did not worry about D and never won crap as a coach in the post season. You can blame the KNicks for many things but getting rid of Nellie is not one of them, IMO.

Nellie at that time and place COULD have been a good thing. Things converge and very often coachs never get great rosters but win year after year. sometimes there are great teams blocking you.

Knicks hired Nellie after Riles left and MAYBE would have amounted to something more than the continued slugfest that JVG continued. True we were successfull but what could we have done if ewing was traded prior to the 96 season? Add that asset and lets assume we do get Spree. The speedball MIGHT have been able to compete better with the Bulls?

I don't know, but at that time and place, and not with hindsight nellie had a system and I assume the plan was to get him the players to run it. Ewing did not want to, was not ready to give up his shots so he slowed the game down and he clashed with nellie.

By 1999 knicks were going in that direction and had JVG in the strike short season made finals, he was toast.

Layden took over for Grunfeld and Dolan became empowered. Get it now?

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:JVG will turn this mother around even if it takes sometime

that's what dolan wants you to think

Re-hiring JVG is admitting fault which would be a step in the right direction for Dolan

Unfortunately in Dolan's mind it would be Jeff's mea culpa and therefore not fault on him in any way. I can't imagine Van Gundy trusting Dolan as a boss watching what he did with Walsh. The only way I'd see him coming is with a coach/GM position and autonomy WRITTEN in the contract...or at least that's only way I think he should do it.

Dolan is clueless, which made sense when his father gave him the team/MSG. But after all these years he should have developed some sense of the game and how to run a team (i.e.: hiring the experts in their field and let them do their job FOR you).

Jimmy will keep this team mired in mediocrity. Jeff has to see that, so I can't see him coming back at all.

PresIke wrote:woody was supposedly known as a good defensive coach, lest we forget.

Serious question- has anyone noticed him come up with a successful defensive strategy that shut down a player? He just seems to have one strategy: switch- has anyone noticed anything else?

gunsnewing wrote:JVG on with Lupica 1050am right now completely dispelling this rumor as false. Damn

why you took the bait after all these years?

You want "HOPE"!!!!!

Don't worry, they'll be a new rumor soon enouth to help you get along.

Jeremy Tyler will soon be on board!!!

gunsnewing wrote:look no. Time to crawl back into the cave of hopelessness

Its dark in there. Very dark!

That's when I wish Mike breen was the play by play guy with him on the telecast to ask him annoying questions about the rumor of him coming back to the Knicks.

it wouldn't be the craziest leap, the guy has it in him and the change would do us good