Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Briggs you blew it!! You need to take this back or you will never live this down on this forum.

Papabear==this is a basketball forum--who cares. Tfk and anyone who was pessimistic about this season seem to be quite on it. Doesnt make them any more knowledagble about basketball than anyone else. The bottom line is the Knicks sck and we overpaid for Melo--and were stuck in a BAD position. Thats that

Papabear Says

Briggs we are 9 games in the season and if you already gave up them thats fine with me. But for you to bow down to a negative 100% Knicks hater like TKF who have nothing but hate for the Knicks then thats your problem. But until you take back what you said on this thread there will be a dark cloud on you Bro. Just remember when this team starts winning and you may have a change of heart TKF will still go on hating and hating and hating. That's what he does. Every day every night and every hour. And remember you bowed down to him. What a disgrace.

WTF? Seriously? It's a little disturbing that you care this much about his posting.

Bonn Bonn what are you talking about? How would you know what I care about.I really don't care about him but when he comes out with a horrible thread like this. I must speak out. All you do spew you defense about your boy. This is beginning to become a big joke. LOL You keep on droping hate bombs and I will keep rooting for my team even though things look bad now and I am calling them out on thier resent play but the difference between me and you is that I know that we are in a bad place now and I am pulling for them to pull themselves up not hoping they loose every game like you and your boy TKF

Papabear wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Briggs you blew it!! You need to take this back or you will never live this down on this forum.

Papabear==this is a basketball forum--who cares. Tfk and anyone who was pessimistic about this season seem to be quite on it. Doesnt make them any more knowledagble about basketball than anyone else. The bottom line is the Knicks sck and we overpaid for Melo--and were stuck in a BAD position. Thats that

Papabear Says

Briggs we are 9 games in the season and if you already gave up them thats fine with me. But for you to bow down to a negative 100% Knicks hater like TKF who have nothing but hate for the Knicks then thats your problem. But until you take back what you said on this thread there will be a dark cloud on you Bro. Just remember when this team starts winning and you may have a change of heart TKF will still go on hating and hating and hating. That's what he does. Every day every night and every hour. And remember you bowed down to him. What a disgrace.

When is this organization as presently constituted going to start winning?

I don't expect to start winning for a long time

Somewhere between 2020 at the earliest to 2025

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Gotta use reason with these early season situations. Teams have hot streaks and slumps and some teams come out clicking and some have zero chemistry. None of those things are accurate indications of what a team will be at the end of the season. IMO just saying Woody sucks, Felton sucks, Bargnani sucks, Melo sucks, so the Knicks are gonna lose is not evidence of real BB knowledge and insight. That's all we've really read here from the naysayers. If the team won last year it was just a fluke cuz ... well Knicks suck and are a gimmick.

Before this season started there were some respectable observations of the roster that suggested the team might not be good, but there were also some B.S. overly simplistic comments about the team that didn't provide any real insight into why we should expect the team not to play well. They don't hold water. We'll see how this all plays out.

the fish rots from the head down.
the front office is in turmoil, the roster is clumsy.
felton and melo are tweeners and woodson is not insightful enough to make it work.
melo doesn't make others around him better, and what's more he is inefficient even at the one skill he is said to possess. his usage to ast ratio is terrible. finally, when you say you want to test free agency you cede any scrap of leadership you may be trying to build, and what was said cannot be unsaid.
bargnani is a soft, zero-sum player. his usage to ast is also terrible.

therefore the ability to prosper for both is next to impossible. instead we should expect plenty of games where one guy is off and one guy on, other games where both are off, and then rarest of all will be there both prospering.

Don't bring more of this garbage gobbledygook nonsense to the forum.

Melo and Bargnani have been playing well together for the last 5 games:

Bargs - 30 mpg - 20.2 ppg - FG% 53.5 - 3pt% 51.6 - 6.6 reb - 1.8 blks
Melo - 38 mpg - 27.2 ppg - FG% 47.2 - 3pt% 43.8 - 8.4 reb - 3.0 asts

PLEASE STFU!!! PLEASE!!!

THe numbers would be even better if Felton was playing better and they actually got the ball to Bargs even more than they have. So much nonsense from some of the people on this forum. We need to get better production from Felton and JR and better defensive chemistry as a whole.

they are 2-3 the last 5 games
anthony 55%TS during that stretch is in fact close to his career average... not good enough now and never will be-- ever
bargnani's usg/ast ratio is an appalling 25.4 to 8.24 or 3.1 to 1. translation: he is getting his but at the expense of his teammates and overall cohesion.
anthony clocks in with 31.46 15.38 which is around a 2 to 1 ratio... unacceptable with the amount of usage. it too is around his career average. not good enough now and never will be.

oh and then there's the amount of points they give up individually and momentum swings they afford the opponent with sub-par defense and in melo's case the rushed threes.

Posting the record over the last 5 games as if it means aything regarding the point being made is just lame. The question was whether Melo and Bargs could consistently play well together. Wins and Losses is about more than just 2 players. Don't try and change the subject of the point that was being made. Playing that well it's clear that Melo and Bargs aren't the main reason they lost 3 of the last 5 games as you seem to be suggesting. Perhaps if JR wasn't being a selfish pig there would be better ball movement and better shots taken. Maybe if Felton wasn't shooting far below his career % and was doing a better job running the team and defending they might have won more games.

Bargnani will pass the ball more if the rest of the team is in a good flow and there are players cutting to the basket, but overall the way he's is used lends itself to fewer assists. Bargs gets most of his shots on catch and shoot situations where he's the best option. If you were watching the games and paying attention, rather than just posting stats you've fallen in love with, you'd know that. Bargs doesn't need to take fewer shots he need to take MORE. WHO THE F IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE PASSING TO GENIUS? If someone was in a better scoring position i'm sure Bargs would pass it. Way to not make a valid point!

As for points given up, the biggest issue is poor defense from Felton. Sure Melo and Bargs need to be better, but there's no reason for this team to give up so many easy baskets. The defense as a whole needs to improve to be sure, still the biggest issue is poor offense. This teams isn't built to be a great defensive team. They have to run efficient offense but they aren't doing that. If Felton and JR were playing better offensively then this team would certainly have won a few more games and things wouldn't look as bad.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Gotta use reason with these early season situations. Teams have hot streaks and slumps and some teams come out clicking and some have zero chemistry. None of those things are accurate indications of what a team will be at the end of the season. IMO just saying Woody sucks, Felton sucks, Bargnani sucks, Melo sucks, so the Knicks are gonna lose is not evidence of real BB knowledge and insight. That's all we've really read here from the naysayers. If the team won last year it was just a fluke cuz ... well Knicks suck and are a gimmick.

Before this season started there were some respectable observations of the roster that suggested the team might not be good, but there were also some B.S. overly simplistic comments about the team that didn't provide any real insight into why we should expect the team not to play well. They don't hold water. We'll see how this all plays out.

the fish rots from the head down.
the front office is in turmoil, the roster is clumsy.
felton and melo are tweeners and woodson is not insightful enough to make it work.
melo doesn't make others around him better, and what's more he is inefficient even at the one skill he is said to possess. his usage to ast ratio is terrible. finally, when you say you want to test free agency you cede any scrap of leadership you may be trying to build, and what was said cannot be unsaid.
bargnani is a soft, zero-sum player. his usage to ast is also terrible.

therefore the ability to prosper for both is next to impossible. instead we should expect plenty of games where one guy is off and one guy on, other games where both are off, and then rarest of all will be there both prospering.

Don't bring more of this garbage gobbledygook nonsense to the forum.

Melo and Bargnani have been playing well together for the last 5 games:

Bargs - 30 mpg - 20.2 ppg - FG% 53.5 - 3pt% 51.6 - 6.6 reb - 1.8 blks
Melo - 38 mpg - 27.2 ppg - FG% 47.2 - 3pt% 43.8 - 8.4 reb - 3.0 asts

PLEASE STFU!!! PLEASE!!!

THe numbers would be even better if Felton was playing better and they actually got the ball to Bargs even more than they have. So much nonsense from some of the people on this forum. We need to get better production from Felton and JR and better defensive chemistry as a whole.

they are 2-3 the last 5 games
anthony 55%TS during that stretch is in fact close to his career average... not good enough now and never will be-- ever
bargnani's usg/ast ratio is an appalling 25.4 to 8.24 or 3.1 to 1. translation: he is getting his but at the expense of his teammates and overall cohesion.
anthony clocks in with 31.46 15.38 which is around a 2 to 1 ratio... unacceptable with the amount of usage. it too is around his career average. not good enough now and never will be.

oh and then there's the amount of points they give up individually and momentum swings they afford the opponent with sub-par defense and in melo's case the rushed threes.

Posting the record over the last 5 games as if it means aything regarding the point being made is just lame. The question was whether Melo and Bargs could consistently play well together. Wins and Losses is about more than just 2 players. Don't try and change the subject of the point that was being made. Playing that well it's clear that Melo and Bargs aren't the main reason they lost 3 of the last 5 games as you seem to be suggesting. Perhaps if JR wasn't being a selfish pig there would be better ball movement and better shots taken. Maybe if Felton wasn't shooting far below his career % and was doing a better job running the team and defending they might have won more games.

Bargnani will pass the ball more if the rest of the team is in a good flow and there are players cutting to the basket, but overall the way he's is used lends itself to fewer assists. Bargs gets most of his shots on catch and shoot situations where he's the best option. If you were watching the games and paying attention, rather than just posting stats you've fallen in love with, you'd know that. Bargs doesn't need to take fewer shots he need to take MORE. WHO THE F IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE PASSING TO GENIUS? If someone was in a better scoring position i'm sure Bargs would pass it. Way to not make a valid point!

As for points given up, the biggest issue is poor defense from Felton. Sure Melo and Bargs need to be better, but there's no reason for this team to give up so many easy baskets. The defense as a whole needs to improve to be sure, still the biggest issue is poor offense. This teams isn't built to be a great defensive team. They have to run efficient offense but they aren't doing that. If Felton and JR were playing better offensively then this team would certainly have won a few more games and things wouldn't look as bad.

melo is playing an average game over this 5 game stretch. inefficient as usual. so he is not prospering. how many points does he give up during this span?
bargnani is shooting a career-high TS% but he steals from himself from a lack of defense and playmaking. i will acknowledge one thing good about him: he is a terrific midrange shooter. how many points does he give up during this span?

You're trying to obfuscate the point I was making in answer to your point that somehow Melo and Bargs wouldn't be able to play well together. I proved that you were wrong since the last 5 games they've put up great production together and if we got good production from Felton and JR they might have won more games. Once again YOU SAID that Melo and Bargs wouldn't play well together and that was flat wrong, so you added some obscure point about Melo and Bargs not being passers.

You know damn well that if Melo and Bargs play this well and we fix the issues with Felton and JR that this team will be setup very well down the line this season. We need good PG play and for JR to pull his weight. They are 2 of the top players from last years team, so Felton and JR have to play better. If and when they do then this team will play much better.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Gotta use reason with these early season situations. Teams have hot streaks and slumps and some teams come out clicking and some have zero chemistry. None of those things are accurate indications of what a team will be at the end of the season. IMO just saying Woody sucks, Felton sucks, Bargnani sucks, Melo sucks, so the Knicks are gonna lose is not evidence of real BB knowledge and insight. That's all we've really read here from the naysayers. If the team won last year it was just a fluke cuz ... well Knicks suck and are a gimmick.

Before this season started there were some respectable observations of the roster that suggested the team might not be good, but there were also some B.S. overly simplistic comments about the team that didn't provide any real insight into why we should expect the team not to play well. They don't hold water. We'll see how this all plays out.

the fish rots from the head down.
the front office is in turmoil, the roster is clumsy.
felton and melo are tweeners and woodson is not insightful enough to make it work.
melo doesn't make others around him better, and what's more he is inefficient even at the one skill he is said to possess. his usage to ast ratio is terrible. finally, when you say you want to test free agency you cede any scrap of leadership you may be trying to build, and what was said cannot be unsaid.
bargnani is a soft, zero-sum player. his usage to ast is also terrible.

therefore the ability to prosper for both is next to impossible. instead we should expect plenty of games where one guy is off and one guy on, other games where both are off, and then rarest of all will be there both prospering.

Don't bring more of this garbage gobbledygook nonsense to the forum.

Melo and Bargnani have been playing well together for the last 5 games:

Bargs - 30 mpg - 20.2 ppg - FG% 53.5 - 3pt% 51.6 - 6.6 reb - 1.8 blks
Melo - 38 mpg - 27.2 ppg - FG% 47.2 - 3pt% 43.8 - 8.4 reb - 3.0 asts

PLEASE STFU!!! PLEASE!!!

THe numbers would be even better if Felton was playing better and they actually got the ball to Bargs even more than they have. So much nonsense from some of the people on this forum. We need to get better production from Felton and JR and better defensive chemistry as a whole.

they are 2-3 the last 5 games
anthony 55%TS during that stretch is in fact close to his career average... not good enough now and never will be-- ever
bargnani's usg/ast ratio is an appalling 25.4 to 8.24 or 3.1 to 1. translation: he is getting his but at the expense of his teammates and overall cohesion.
anthony clocks in with 31.46 15.38 which is around a 2 to 1 ratio... unacceptable with the amount of usage. it too is around his career average. not good enough now and never will be.

oh and then there's the amount of points they give up individually and momentum swings they afford the opponent with sub-par defense and in melo's case the rushed threes.

Posting the record over the last 5 games as if it means aything regarding the point being made is just lame. The question was whether Melo and Bargs could consistently play well together. Wins and Losses is about more than just 2 players. Don't try and change the subject of the point that was being made. Playing that well it's clear that Melo and Bargs aren't the main reason they lost 3 of the last 5 games as you seem to be suggesting. Perhaps if JR wasn't being a selfish pig there would be better ball movement and better shots taken. Maybe if Felton wasn't shooting far below his career % and was doing a better job running the team and defending they might have won more games.

Bargnani will pass the ball more if the rest of the team is in a good flow and there are players cutting to the basket, but overall the way he's is used lends itself to fewer assists. Bargs gets most of his shots on catch and shoot situations where he's the best option. If you were watching the games and paying attention, rather than just posting stats you've fallen in love with, you'd know that. Bargs doesn't need to take fewer shots he need to take MORE. WHO THE F IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE PASSING TO GENIUS? If someone was in a better scoring position i'm sure Bargs would pass it. Way to not make a valid point!

As for points given up, the biggest issue is poor defense from Felton. Sure Melo and Bargs need to be better, but there's no reason for this team to give up so many easy baskets. The defense as a whole needs to improve to be sure, still the biggest issue is poor offense. This teams isn't built to be a great defensive team. They have to run efficient offense but they aren't doing that. If Felton and JR were playing better offensively then this team would certainly have won a few more games and things wouldn't look as bad.

melo is playing an average game over this 5 game stretch. inefficient as usual. so he is not prospering. how many points does he give up during this span?
bargnani is shooting a career-high TS% but he steals from himself from a lack of defense and playmaking. i will acknowledge one thing good about him: he is a terrific midrange shooter. how many points does he give up during this span?

You're trying to obfuscate the point I was making in answer to your point that somehow Melo and Bargs wouldn't be able to play well together. I proved that you were wrong since the last 5 games they've put up great production together and if we got good production from Felton and JR they might have won more games. Once again YOU SAID that Melo and Bargs wouldn't play well together and that was flat wrong, so you added some obscure point about Melo and Bargs not being passers.

You know damn well that if Melo and Bargs play this well and we fix the issues with Felton and JR that this team will be setup very well down the line this season. We need good PG play and for JR to pull his weight. They are 2 of the top players from last years team, so Felton and JR have to play better. If and when they do then this team will play much better.

You must have missed his entire point - he's saying they're not playing well together. Melo is putting up high PPG with average efficiency, and that's something we always knew he could do. I'd say they're playing "OK" together but not great.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Gotta use reason with these early season situations. Teams have hot streaks and slumps and some teams come out clicking and some have zero chemistry. None of those things are accurate indications of what a team will be at the end of the season. IMO just saying Woody sucks, Felton sucks, Bargnani sucks, Melo sucks, so the Knicks are gonna lose is not evidence of real BB knowledge and insight. That's all we've really read here from the naysayers. If the team won last year it was just a fluke cuz ... well Knicks suck and are a gimmick.

Before this season started there were some respectable observations of the roster that suggested the team might not be good, but there were also some B.S. overly simplistic comments about the team that didn't provide any real insight into why we should expect the team not to play well. They don't hold water. We'll see how this all plays out.

the fish rots from the head down.
the front office is in turmoil, the roster is clumsy.
felton and melo are tweeners and woodson is not insightful enough to make it work.
melo doesn't make others around him better, and what's more he is inefficient even at the one skill he is said to possess. his usage to ast ratio is terrible. finally, when you say you want to test free agency you cede any scrap of leadership you may be trying to build, and what was said cannot be unsaid.
bargnani is a soft, zero-sum player. his usage to ast is also terrible.

therefore the ability to prosper for both is next to impossible. instead we should expect plenty of games where one guy is off and one guy on, other games where both are off, and then rarest of all will be there both prospering.

Don't bring more of this garbage gobbledygook nonsense to the forum.

Melo and Bargnani have been playing well together for the last 5 games:

Bargs - 30 mpg - 20.2 ppg - FG% 53.5 - 3pt% 51.6 - 6.6 reb - 1.8 blks
Melo - 38 mpg - 27.2 ppg - FG% 47.2 - 3pt% 43.8 - 8.4 reb - 3.0 asts

PLEASE STFU!!! PLEASE!!!

THe numbers would be even better if Felton was playing better and they actually got the ball to Bargs even more than they have. So much nonsense from some of the people on this forum. We need to get better production from Felton and JR and better defensive chemistry as a whole.

they are 2-3 the last 5 games
anthony 55%TS during that stretch is in fact close to his career average... not good enough now and never will be-- ever
bargnani's usg/ast ratio is an appalling 25.4 to 8.24 or 3.1 to 1. translation: he is getting his but at the expense of his teammates and overall cohesion.
anthony clocks in with 31.46 15.38 which is around a 2 to 1 ratio... unacceptable with the amount of usage. it too is around his career average. not good enough now and never will be.

oh and then there's the amount of points they give up individually and momentum swings they afford the opponent with sub-par defense and in melo's case the rushed threes.

Posting the record over the last 5 games as if it means aything regarding the point being made is just lame. The question was whether Melo and Bargs could consistently play well together. Wins and Losses is about more than just 2 players. Don't try and change the subject of the point that was being made. Playing that well it's clear that Melo and Bargs aren't the main reason they lost 3 of the last 5 games as you seem to be suggesting. Perhaps if JR wasn't being a selfish pig there would be better ball movement and better shots taken. Maybe if Felton wasn't shooting far below his career % and was doing a better job running the team and defending they might have won more games.

Bargnani will pass the ball more if the rest of the team is in a good flow and there are players cutting to the basket, but overall the way he's is used lends itself to fewer assists. Bargs gets most of his shots on catch and shoot situations where he's the best option. If you were watching the games and paying attention, rather than just posting stats you've fallen in love with, you'd know that. Bargs doesn't need to take fewer shots he need to take MORE. WHO THE F IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE PASSING TO GENIUS? If someone was in a better scoring position i'm sure Bargs would pass it. Way to not make a valid point!

As for points given up, the biggest issue is poor defense from Felton. Sure Melo and Bargs need to be better, but there's no reason for this team to give up so many easy baskets. The defense as a whole needs to improve to be sure, still the biggest issue is poor offense. This teams isn't built to be a great defensive team. They have to run efficient offense but they aren't doing that. If Felton and JR were playing better offensively then this team would certainly have won a few more games and things wouldn't look as bad.

melo is playing an average game over this 5 game stretch. inefficient as usual. so he is not prospering. how many points does he give up during this span?
bargnani is shooting a career-high TS% but he steals from himself from a lack of defense and playmaking. i will acknowledge one thing good about him: he is a terrific midrange shooter. how many points does he give up during this span?

You're trying to obfuscate the point I was making in answer to your point that somehow Melo and Bargs wouldn't be able to play well together. I proved that you were wrong since the last 5 games they've put up great production together and if we got good production from Felton and JR they might have won more games. Once again YOU SAID that Melo and Bargs wouldn't play well together and that was flat wrong, so you added some obscure point about Melo and Bargs not being passers.

You know damn well that if Melo and Bargs play this well and we fix the issues with Felton and JR that this team will be setup very well down the line this season. We need good PG play and for JR to pull his weight. They are 2 of the top players from last years team, so Felton and JR have to play better. If and when they do then this team will play much better.

again, you are basing "playing well together" on what? why not post the stats with them on the floor together? better year, why are you just focusing on the offense, you do understand that defense counts as well.. and when you factor all of that in, then it would be a fair determination..

but wins and losses to count as well.. what i see here is you setting up another scapegoat.. first carmelo needs help, then bargnani scores a few baskets and has a few good games and hoooray!!! you proclaim they are playing "well together", yet we are sub.500.. so now you look for another reason to shift blame from them and you start blaming lack of help for both guys now... let me guess who do you want to blame? felton?

foosballnick wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I've watched enough seasons to know that the Knicks operate on momentum as much as the personnel that they have. It would have been great for them to enter the season fresh off of the 54 game wins and string together a couple of high echelon seasons. That said, they are 9 games in and look like they have lost their way. That said, if you took that freakish win streak away from last season (13 games) where they went from 38-26 to 51-26, they seem more normal. They went 3-6 just prior to that 13 game win streak. The fact that the losing streak they had last season is taking place in the first 9 games is alarming, but shouldn't be the reason to throw all sensibility out the window.

Let's re-evaluate at the 20 game mark, once their players have some time to get adjusted. They should normalize above .500

Nah.....your remarks are way too sane and rational. Much better to create drama and make grand proclamations with every possession or game. Or better yet, denounce the team continually during good and bad times......and during a low point crow out "I told you so"! Eventually even the guy with the sandwich board proclaiming "the end is near" will be correct.

Knicks look pretty bad right now...but I'm willing to give them at least 2-3 months before proclaiming they should pack it in.

Well said guys. +1's