yellowboy90 wrote:Let's try to keep it on Shump

Eh no sense in getting a hundred different projections. I think we all agree that Shumpert could be a player. The question is will the system give him the freedom to or will his development be stunted in favor of a 3 pg lineup that caters to ISO Melo and JR. Hopefully the Woodson goes the pacer, bulls and spurs route

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We had Shumpert shooting the 3 well last year Nd Woodson and Melo still didn't get him the ball enough. The. People cry that Melo doesn't have help

you are taking things so out of context it's almost degrading to your posts

how is he doing that, If you didn't recall the the playoff game where shump scored 12 straight points to end the 3rd qtr bring us back, only to not see the ball again..I belive that was game 3 in the pacers series

The context of the argument that Melo doesn't have help is when the Knicks are compared to Durant/Westbrook, KG/Pierce/Rondo, LeBron/Wade/Bosh.

Shump ain't close to any of those above.

This may true martin, but what makes you think melo would change his game, from iso to team ball, even during the olympics he play the same way, he was just more efficient because he saw less double teams..Shump may not be on the level of WB/wade/rondo but he has the talent to avg 17ppg giving the attemps.

He does have the talent but he also has to prove himself too. IMHO had a good playoffs. During the regular season he increased shots month-to-month. All good things and no indication that Melo was hampering him. Still needs to be able to finish around the basket and make a midrange shot - those things have nothing to do with Melo.

Shump just returned from ACL mid year and it was obvious to me Woody would give him the short minutes when his D wasn't full on. Nothing wrong with that and I expect Shump to see bigger role in offense this year, especially with training camp.

All this talk about ISO Melo is nonsense to me - I don't see a direct correlation. Melo surely shoots the ball a lot and isn't the playmaker that Wade, LeBron, Kobe are, but I don't see him hindering the likes of Shump.

carmelo anthony's usage rate was highest in the league and the highest of his career. meanwhile his raw assist numbers were their usual below par and his assist rate was 14.1% meaning that another player scored via the assist only 14.1% of the time that carmelo anthony was on the floor.

in the playoffs his usage rate went up to 38% and the assist rate went down to 9.3%.

OUCH

there is a direct correlation-- the numbers back up the eye test. but lets do the expedient and facile thing which is to blame his teammates for not stepping up, running out of gas, or being injured.

dk7th wrote:carmelo anthony's usage rate was highest in the league and the highest of his career. meanwhile his raw assist numbers were their usual below par and his assist rate was 14.1% meaning that another player scored via the assist only 14.1% of the time that carmelo anthony was on the floor.

in the playoffs his usage rate went up to 38% and the assist rate went down to 9.3%.

OUCH

there is a direct correlation-- the numbers back up the eye test. but lets do the expedient and facile thing which is to blame his teammates for not stepping up, running out of gas, or being injured.

Please let us know how Shump's numbers dipped in playoffs.

Which came first, Kidd/JR/Chandler lack of offense or Melo's increased numbers? IMHO Kidd's poor play along with JR's affected the team and Melo's contribution.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We had Shumpert shooting the 3 well last year Nd Woodson and Melo still didn't get him the ball enough. The. People cry that Melo doesn't have help

you are taking things so out of context it's almost degrading to your posts

how is he doing that, If you didn't recall the the playoff game where shump scored 12 straight points to end the 3rd qtr bring us back, only to not see the ball again..I belive that was game 3 in the pacers series

The context of the argument that Melo doesn't have help is when the Knicks are compared to Durant/Westbrook, KG/Pierce/Rondo, LeBron/Wade/Bosh.

Shump ain't close to any of those above.

and to be fair, carmelo isn't close to Durant, KG or lebron..

martin, to ask for help you have to be of help yourself. Carmelo's numbers in the playoffs are not great, he doesn't have great playoff performances.. lets be real man. he should be the one elevating his teamates.. we should not be looking for shumpert, bargnani, copeland, prigs, beno, felton to help carmelo raise his game..

the reason why westbrook is westbrook is because Durant allows for his game to grow while still being effective himself.

Lebron allows wade and bosh to be themselves while he still is effective..

KG and pierce allowed rondo to lead, while still being effective themselves..

carmelo just doesn't have that mindset, efficiency or skillset to allow that to happen. he plays the only way he knows how..

as someone said, when shumpert scored like 12 straight points... he was then shut out afterwards...

I am not telling anyone they should not root for carmelo, or not like him, that is your choice.. all I am saying is be realistic with what you have....

I would still like to get our hands on Bledsoe somehow and then go for a young two way SF, Deng is getting up there, but he would be ideal.. could you image the defense and versatility with Bledsoe, shumpert and deng on the wings? substitute deng for an up and coming player like ALF(al farouq aminu) don't laugh the kid is young ,long, athletic and can defend.. he averaged 7 points and 8 boards last year.. the kind of guy you have to get cheap before he breaks out.. I think some of you see where I am going with this.. then you get that one FA piece in 2015 that can help tie all of this together and you make a run for the next 5+ years, but get a unit that actually fits!!!

I mean, Deng/Alf, Bledsoe, shumpert, and a guy like kevin love or Aldridge potentially.. I mean the options start to open up.. but what excites me is having shump,Deng and Blesoe on the wings defensively and on the break... as senator clay davis on the show the "wire" said... Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!! LOL

gunsnewing wrote:Carmelo had Amare a perennial Allstar at one point and the 2 just couldn't coexist. Now Amare is a bench player for that reason more so than health because if it made the team better he would start especially in the playoffs where you have to matchup with superior talent. We started Tyson and Kmart or Melo and Shumpert out of position l. And now we might have Bargnani join Amare to form the worst defensive bench in the front court.

dude, how many games did Melo have Amare?

And how many games did LeBron/Wade/Bosh suck when they first started playing together after a traning camp?

Amare is a bench player cause he can't exist with Melo and not because of health? You lost me man... that's awful observation.

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Carmelo had Amare a perennial Allstar at one point and the 2 just couldn't coexist. Now Amare is a bench player for that reason more so than health because if it made the team better he would start especially in the playoffs where you have to matchup with superior talent. We started Tyson and Kmart or Melo and Shumpert out of position l. And now we might have Bargnani join Amare to form the worst defensive bench in the front court.

yea, amare knees are done i think, but even then, if he can give you 25 min a game,he still has starter skills.. but as you said, he and carmelo don't fit, so he is the forgotten man it seems.

All last year I was calling for Amare to start and play 25mins because I knew when the playoffs roles around we would not match the other teams front court offensively and on the boards. Also Hibbert and west would have had their hands full guarding Amare. Instead they coasted vs Tyson and Melo. You can beat Orlando Milwaukee and Charlotte with Melo at the 4. Not Indiana

gunsnewing wrote:Wasn't Amare available during the playoffs? Why did Woodson go to Kmart when he panicked as Hibbert and west abused Tyson and Melo? At least Amare would've matched them offensively. Amare was a beast last yr but Woodson is afraid to start them together because he saw how that worked for Dantoni

You need a big with Melo and STAT. There numbers when they first got together on offense was great and last year the numbers with them and chandler where very good. That 3-man unit had incredible rebounding numbers and was extremely efficient. Also, Carmelo actually tries to find STAT. It didn't work with MDA because he thought Toney DOuglas could man the pg duties but his shoulder wrecked his shot and he is not a PnR guard. There were other problems both sides can argue but those have been discussed

Let's keep this on SHUMP.