This version of the Knicks is more talented top to bottom and more versatile. Woody will have more options this year than he did last year. If he wants to go all defense he can. If he wants to go big he can. If he wants to go small he can. Grunwald has given Woody a ton of options. If you honestly look at this roster Woody can put a team on the floor that should match up well against any team in the league. It's not a perfect team but it's a good team that will have a chance to get to the ECF's. Why shouldn't Knicks fans be excited about that prospect? The team was 2 wins from the ECF's last year. Maybe this year they get those 2 wins and more.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Man in the end TKF you can only guess at what's in the heart of Bargnani. You don't know him nor do you really know what went on with him in Toronto and his coaches. It could be that he had a couple of injuries in the last 2 years that limited his production and stunted his growth and there was growth over the previous 4 seasons before the last 2. I think it's gonna be good to have him get away from Toronto and start fresh here in NY.

There is literally no reason that AB can't be successful here in NY. He's not going to have to carry the team. He doesn't have any known chronic injuries. He's in his prime and highly skilled. We have a good team and a good coaching staff that gets a lot out of the players we have. I understand the concerns people have about his last season but you can't assume that he's gonna play like a guy with an injured elbow as he did last year when he actually had an injured elbow.

sure there is-- he doesn't defend the position. and his level of selfishness and inefficiency is borne out by the numbers he has posted his entire career. he is a classic negative-sum player.

additionally, woodson is not good at all at putting cohesive teams together, partly due to the mismatched and overlapping skills of his players but also due to his own narrow-minded approach and favoritism.

it makes for an ever-threatening toxic situation that no amount of baleful expressions, isolation plays and tin-plated regular-season records can cover up.

We didn't bring in Bargnani to be a defensive stopper. With regard to being an inefficient and selfish player, that's a bit strong. Yes he needs to be a bit more efficient, but I don't know if it's right to call him selfish. The way you turn around his production is going to be mostly in how you use him. As many of us have said the best way to help AB is to get him the ball near the basket more often and have him take fewer 3's.

I'll give you an example of how you change things up. For most of STAT's career he was the main PnR man. But once we got Tyson that changed and STAT had a different role. Then Woodson had STAT work on his post game and he used STAT more in the post. Aside from the time missed due to his knees, STAT actually showed he was very efficient working more in the post. STAT posted the highest FG% since his 2007-08 season 57.7% IT's about HOW a coach chooses to employ a player. Felton wasn't used as a PnR PG for much of his career but on the Knicks MDA had him work heavily in the PnR and it took time but once he got the hang of it, he produced his best season at 17 pts and 9 asts. A lot depends on the coach and how he uses a player.

With regard to Woodson, he's got his flaws, but he's also shown that he can get this team to win at a high rate. We've had more win streaks under Woodson than any coach in a long time. I was very impressed with how he had the team come out of camp last year. They were very sharp and team oriented. The team had great ball and player movement. He wasn't perfect but Woody did a lot of good things. I think his problem was that players he had planned to use in ways that made the offense more versatile broke down and that led to relying more on ISO plays than we should. He also got caught up in a lack of trust for using his bench players in the playoffs. Still I don't think Woody intended to be such an ISO heavy team at the end. He didn't have the team come out of camp that way.

i said nothing about his needing to be a defensive stopper. the fact remains that he is woefully substandard as a defender and rebounder, and i fear that his low defensive rebounding numbers lead to one inevitability: the opposing team will gather a greater share of offensive rebounds and second chance points off of second chance possessions.

this puts the team in a hole.

at least with a decent pick and roll player amare stoudemire would be able to excel at the one thing that garnered him a positive reputation: great finisher. but then consider who was setting him up all those years. as soon as he came to new york his efficiency on offense dropped and not a little but a lot. still, even with stoudemire working with an inferior pick and roll player and barreling into two or three players those first 3.5 months he was a more efficient player than bargnani has ever been. crappy defender absolutely, poor passer/playmaker sure... but still more efficient as a scorer than bargnani.

you pin your hopes on woodson utilizing him properly. hope is a fine thing but lets remember this discussion and thread when this guy starts hearing the boos.

winning at a high rate in the regular season is less than half the story: as i never tire of repeating it's not that you win but how you win that makes the difference when preparing a team to make a deep run in the playoffs. last season i kept saying that and was told "a win is a win." that is wishful thinking, ostrich-head-in-the-sand thinking.

all i ask my fellow knick fans is to look closely at how the knicks are compiling victories, bearing in mind that half the teams roughly half the time they will be playing sub-.500 teams. in the playoffs that won't be the case.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Man in the end TKF you can only guess at what's in the heart of Bargnani. You don't know him nor do you really know what went on with him in Toronto and his coaches. It could be that he had a couple of injuries in the last 2 years that limited his production and stunted his growth and there was growth over the previous 4 seasons before the last 2. I think it's gonna be good to have him get away from Toronto and start fresh here in NY.

There is literally no reason that AB can't be successful here in NY. He's not going to have to carry the team. He doesn't have any known chronic injuries. He's in his prime and highly skilled. We have a good team and a good coaching staff that gets a lot out of the players we have. I understand the concerns people have about his last season but you can't assume that he's gonna play like a guy with an injured elbow as he did last year when he actually had an injured elbow.

sure there is-- he doesn't defend the position. and his level of selfishness and inefficiency is borne out by the numbers he has posted his entire career. he is a classic negative-sum player.

additionally, woodson is not good at all at putting cohesive teams together, partly due to the mismatched and overlapping skills of his players but also due to his own narrow-minded approach and favoritism.

it makes for an ever-threatening toxic situation that no amount of baleful expressions, isolation plays and tin-plated regular-season records can cover up.

We didn't bring in Bargnani to be a defensive stopper. With regard to being an inefficient and selfish player, that's a bit strong. Yes he needs to be a bit more efficient, but I don't know if it's right to call him selfish. The way you turn around his production is going to be mostly in how you use him. As many of us have said the best way to help AB is to get him the ball near the basket more often and have him take fewer 3's.

I'll give you an example of how you change things up. For most of STAT's career he was the main PnR man. But once we got Tyson that changed and STAT had a different role. Then Woodson had STAT work on his post game and he used STAT more in the post. Aside from the time missed due to his knees, STAT actually showed he was very efficient working more in the post. STAT posted the highest FG% since his 2007-08 season 57.7% IT's about HOW a coach chooses to employ a player. Felton wasn't used as a PnR PG for much of his career but on the Knicks MDA had him work heavily in the PnR and it took time but once he got the hang of it, he produced his best season at 17 pts and 9 asts. A lot depends on the coach and how he uses a player.

With regard to Woodson, he's got his flaws, but he's also shown that he can get this team to win at a high rate. We've had more win streaks under Woodson than any coach in a long time. I was very impressed with how he had the team come out of camp last year. They were very sharp and team oriented. The team had great ball and player movement. He wasn't perfect but Woody did a lot of good things. I think his problem was that players he had planned to use in ways that made the offense more versatile broke down and that led to relying more on ISO plays than we should. He also got caught up in a lack of trust for using his bench players in the playoffs. Still I don't think Woody intended to be such an ISO heavy team at the end. He didn't have the team come out of camp that way.

i said nothing about his needing to be a defensive stopper. the fact remains that he is woefully substandard as a defender and rebounder, and i fear that his low defensive rebounding numbers lead to one inevitability: the opposing team will gather a greater share of offensive rebounds and second chance points off of second chance possessions.

this puts the team in a hole.

at least with a decent pick and roll player amare stoudemire would be able to excel at the one thing that garnered him a positive reputation: great finisher. but then consider who was setting him up all those years. as soon as he came to new york his efficiency on offense dropped and not a little but a lot. still, even with stoudemire working with an inferior pick and roll player and barreling into two or three players those first 3.5 months he was a more efficient player than bargnani has ever been. crappy defender absolutely, poor passer/playmaker sure... but still more efficient as a scorer than bargnani.

you pin your hopes on woodson utilizing him properly. hope is a fine thing but lets remember this discussion and thread when this guy starts hearing the boos.

winning at a high rate in the regular season is less than half the story: as i never tire of repeating it's not that you win but how you win that makes the difference when preparing a team to make a deep run in the playoffs. last season i kept saying that and was told "a win is a win." that is wishful thinking, ostrich-head-in-the-sand thinking.

all i ask my fellow knick fans is to look closely at how the knicks are compiling victories, bearing in mind that half the teams roughly half the time they will be playing sub-.500 teams. in the playoffs that won't be the case.

In regards to who they are playing, that is the same for every nba team and the reason Brooklyn won 49 games last year. They beat the sub .500 teams. The Knicks had a really good record against the elite of the nba in the regular season. Knicks were 3-1 against the Heat, 2-0 against the Spurs, 1-1 against the Griz and Okc. Are you anticipating that they will compile victories differently this season?

there's no denying the record they compiled against these elite teams... but the caveat is that it occurred during the regular season. but at then end of the day a contender displays versatility and resilience in a seven game series in the playoffs, qualities that are honed during the regular season. a contender also can put the clamps down defensively.

this year they should be focussing not on the highest seed or scoring titles but versatility, resilience, team defense. this requires superior coaching and players willing to give up regular minutes in order to give the coach as much room to experiment and deepen the rotation even at the price of a few wins.

the knicks can win the division and secure a third seed but that can't be at the expense of building a playoff team.

a win is a win is not the right approach-- we saw that conceit demolished last year.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

It should be common sense that if a player takes half of his shots from mid range to three, they arent doubled that much.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

It should be common sense that if a player takes half of his shots from mid range to three, they arent doubled that much.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

So Melo's torn labrum didn't impact his game? Dwight Howard had the same injury and missed games. Playing through something like that would show character right? Maybe not if its Melo?

Melo missed more games last season than Howard did....Howard missed a whopping 6....Melo missed 15.

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

It should be common sense that if a player takes half of his shots from mid range to three, they arent doubled that much.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

So Melo's torn labrum didn't impact his game? Dwight Howard had the same injury and missed games. Playing through something like that would show character right? Maybe not if its Melo?

Can Melo stand on his own? Dwight is talented, but is a baby...a mental midget...but that midget had back and shoulder issues and played through them once again in the playoffs.

Melo missed more games last season than Howard did....Howard missed a whopping 6....Melo missed 15.