tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This argument is pointless. Melo at this point is the star of the team and this year they've given him the best help he's had since being here. Melo does need help. It will keep him fresh and in the playoffs it will give defenses something else to worry about and make what he does more impactful.

Basically I wanted to point to the idea that if Melo does indeed look to score more on actually BB plays rather than hold the ball ISO's then that's a GREAT development. There is no negative angle to take on this. We can't know if he'll really increase the rate of PnR plays etc, but if he does that would be a very good thing. Melo and his trainer identified a part of his game that is very efficient but that he hasn't used enough and I think if he's highlighting PnR then that will lead to an improvement in the amount of these plays he tries to execute. That's a good thing. Especially now that he'll have more teammates who can also excel in the PnR/PnP game.

Now someone tried to insinuate that teams will shut down the PnR, but what you have to do is disguise when you're going to use it. If it comes in a very natural and fluid manner as opposed to being stiff and obvious then it works. Fluid ball and player movement leads a defense to being out of position and it becomes easier to run set plays and ad lib. That's when PnR plays work best. You get the ball and player movement and then BANG a PnR/PnP. The same goes for curls and such. Just getting Melo to look to score more in the flow of the offense will be a major victory. This team KILLED teams when the ball was constantly moving. That's what we need to get more of. It's entirely possible that Melo can do this because it's all in his control. He simply has to decide this is what he wants to do on the court just like when he makes up his mind to hold the ball and go ISO. It's a choice not a talent.

It's likely he wont change something he prefers to do.

One sentence>>>essay.

Some how you think that if Melo is literally convinced something new he's working on will help his game that he's not going to use it? You really haven't thought this thru have you? As I've said before. In the past Melo was asked to do these kinds of things but he resisted. He NEVER actually worked on adding PnR/PnP skills into his game. This would mark the 1st time he's come out stating that he's working on adding a high % skill to his game like this. Somehow you think this is the same as before, so I will challenge you to go back and find articles where he's stated that he's working specifically on this skill, recognizing that it's a high % part of his game that he hasn't taken full advantage of. His long time trainer is making it a point of emphasis, so clearly this is different. But you go on and keep repeating yourself as if that's a clever argument.

well carmelo has said a lot of things, and honestly he has no credibility.. First he said last year was the best team, or group of guys he has played with.. He said that.. yet you are convinced that this year, he has the best team he has ever had....hmmm

He also said that he was not going to focus on scoring, that he would do what it took to win, no longer worrying about how many points he scored.. yet he probably wore himself down chasing a scoring title at the end of the season...

Now he probably sees the team potentially shifting the offense somewhat and he is making sure he stays the focal point... so now he wants to work on pick and roll.. not if he can set better picks, rebound, defend, be a better passer, no he is trying to find an angle to make sure he gets his shots... this dude is so predictable...

WOW! I've bashed Melo when I felt he wasn't playing well or giving a full effort, but I've never been purely negative for no valid reason at all. To listen to you, someone would think Melo is a bum and beyond all redemption as a player and person. You have the most cynical take on Melo and the Knicks i've ever seen from a professed "Knicks Fan". The worst part is that unlike the past where you could understand some negativity, this is a "WINNING TEAM". This is a team no less than top 5 in the East and possibly top 3. I just can't see any validity to your position at all. Melo is a flawed player but he's also a very talented player.

I think Melo could have a great season if he can really get into the flow of more team oriented play this year as he's describing. If Woody calls for this team to run more PnP/PnR and multi screen plays it's going to be a very good team. We have no reason to doubt that Woody will be looking to make full use of all the talent he has this year. Don't dwell on the way the team looked in the playoffs. Think about how they played when the team was healthy and fresh. You saw some great team ball. This year they should be able to sustain that.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This argument is pointless. Melo at this point is the star of the team and this year they've given him the best help he's had since being here. Melo does need help. It will keep him fresh and in the playoffs it will give defenses something else to worry about and make what he does more impactful.

Basically I wanted to point to the idea that if Melo does indeed look to score more on actually BB plays rather than hold the ball ISO's then that's a GREAT development. There is no negative angle to take on this. We can't know if he'll really increase the rate of PnR plays etc, but if he does that would be a very good thing. Melo and his trainer identified a part of his game that is very efficient but that he hasn't used enough and I think if he's highlighting PnR then that will lead to an improvement in the amount of these plays he tries to execute. That's a good thing. Especially now that he'll have more teammates who can also excel in the PnR/PnP game.

Now someone tried to insinuate that teams will shut down the PnR, but what you have to do is disguise when you're going to use it. If it comes in a very natural and fluid manner as opposed to being stiff and obvious then it works. Fluid ball and player movement leads a defense to being out of position and it becomes easier to run set plays and ad lib. That's when PnR plays work best. You get the ball and player movement and then BANG a PnR/PnP. The same goes for curls and such. Just getting Melo to look to score more in the flow of the offense will be a major victory. This team KILLED teams when the ball was constantly moving. That's what we need to get more of. It's entirely possible that Melo can do this because it's all in his control. He simply has to decide this is what he wants to do on the court just like when he makes up his mind to hold the ball and go ISO. It's a choice not a talent.

It's likely he wont change something he prefers to do.

One sentence>>>essay.

Some how you think that if Melo is literally convinced something new he's working on will help his game that he's not going to use it? You really haven't thought this thru have you? As I've said before. In the past Melo was asked to do these kinds of things but he resisted. He NEVER actually worked on adding PnR/PnP skills into his game. This would mark the 1st time he's come out stating that he's working on adding a high % skill to his game like this. Somehow you think this is the same as before, so I will challenge you to go back and find articles where he's stated that he's working specifically on this skill, recognizing that it's a high % part of his game that he hasn't taken full advantage of. His long time trainer is making it a point of emphasis, so clearly this is different. But you go on and keep repeating yourself as if that's a clever argument.

well carmelo has said a lot of things, and honestly he has no credibility.. First he said last year was the best team, or group of guys he has played with.. He said that.. yet you are convinced that this year, he has the best team he has ever had....hmmm

He also said that he was not going to focus on scoring, that he would do what it took to win, no longer worrying about how many points he scored.. yet he probably wore himself down chasing a scoring title at the end of the season...

Now he probably sees the team potentially shifting the offense somewhat and he is making sure he stays the focal point... so now he wants to work on pick and roll.. not if he can set better picks, rebound, defend, be a better passer, no he is trying to find an angle to make sure he gets his shots... this dude is so predictable...

WOW! I've bashed Melo when I felt he wasn't playing well or giving a full effort, but I've never been purely negative for no valid reason at all. To listen to you, someone would think Melo is a bum and beyond all redemption as a player and person. You have the most cynical take on Melo and the Knicks i've ever seen from a professed "Knicks Fan". The worst part is that unlike the past where you could understand some negativity, this is a "WINNING TEAM". This is a team no less than top 5 in the East and possibly top 3. I just can't see any validity to your position at all. Melo is a flawed player but he's also a very talented player.

I think Melo could have a great season if he can really get into the flow of more team oriented play this year as he's describing. If Woody calls for this team to run more PnP/PnR and multi screen plays it's going to be a very good team. We have no reason to doubt that Woody will be looking to make full use of all the talent he has this year. Don't dwell on the way the team looked in the playoffs. Think about how they played when the team was healthy and fresh. You saw some great team ball. This year they should be able to sustain that.

I don't dislike melo, but NIX, TKF is right man..melo always talks about sht he's going to do, starts out doing it, then ends up the same ol ball hogging ways...you can't deny that!!

I can see even in the slow times of the year things don't change around here!

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This argument is pointless. Melo at this point is the star of the team and this year they've given him the best help he's had since being here. Melo does need help. It will keep him fresh and in the playoffs it will give defenses something else to worry about and make what he does more impactful.

Basically I wanted to point to the idea that if Melo does indeed look to score more on actually BB plays rather than hold the ball ISO's then that's a GREAT development. There is no negative angle to take on this. We can't know if he'll really increase the rate of PnR plays etc, but if he does that would be a very good thing. Melo and his trainer identified a part of his game that is very efficient but that he hasn't used enough and I think if he's highlighting PnR then that will lead to an improvement in the amount of these plays he tries to execute. That's a good thing. Especially now that he'll have more teammates who can also excel in the PnR/PnP game.

Now someone tried to insinuate that teams will shut down the PnR, but what you have to do is disguise when you're going to use it. If it comes in a very natural and fluid manner as opposed to being stiff and obvious then it works. Fluid ball and player movement leads a defense to being out of position and it becomes easier to run set plays and ad lib. That's when PnR plays work best. You get the ball and player movement and then BANG a PnR/PnP. The same goes for curls and such. Just getting Melo to look to score more in the flow of the offense will be a major victory. This team KILLED teams when the ball was constantly moving. That's what we need to get more of. It's entirely possible that Melo can do this because it's all in his control. He simply has to decide this is what he wants to do on the court just like when he makes up his mind to hold the ball and go ISO. It's a choice not a talent.

It's likely he wont change something he prefers to do.

One sentence>>>essay.

Some how you think that if Melo is literally convinced something new he's working on will help his game that he's not going to use it? You really haven't thought this thru have you? As I've said before. In the past Melo was asked to do these kinds of things but he resisted. He NEVER actually worked on adding PnR/PnP skills into his game. This would mark the 1st time he's come out stating that he's working on adding a high % skill to his game like this. Somehow you think this is the same as before, so I will challenge you to go back and find articles where he's stated that he's working specifically on this skill, recognizing that it's a high % part of his game that he hasn't taken full advantage of. His long time trainer is making it a point of emphasis, so clearly this is different. But you go on and keep repeating yourself as if that's a clever argument.

well carmelo has said a lot of things, and honestly he has no credibility.. First he said last year was the best team, or group of guys he has played with.. He said that.. yet you are convinced that this year, he has the best team he has ever had....hmmm

He also said that he was not going to focus on scoring, that he would do what it took to win, no longer worrying about how many points he scored.. yet he probably wore himself down chasing a scoring title at the end of the season...

Now he probably sees the team potentially shifting the offense somewhat and he is making sure he stays the focal point... so now he wants to work on pick and roll.. not if he can set better picks, rebound, defend, be a better passer, no he is trying to find an angle to make sure he gets his shots... this dude is so predictable...

WOW! I've bashed Melo when I felt he wasn't playing well or giving a full effort, but I've never been purely negative for no valid reason at all. To listen to you, someone would think Melo is a bum and beyond all redemption as a player and person. You have the most cynical take on Melo and the Knicks i've ever seen from a professed "Knicks Fan". The worst part is that unlike the past where you could understand some negativity, this is a "WINNING TEAM". This is a team no less than top 5 in the East and possibly top 3. I just can't see any validity to your position at all. Melo is a flawed player but he's also a very talented player.

I think Melo could have a great season if he can really get into the flow of more team oriented play this year as he's describing. If Woody calls for this team to run more PnP/PnR and multi screen plays it's going to be a very good team. We have no reason to doubt that Woody will be looking to make full use of all the talent he has this year. Don't dwell on the way the team looked in the playoffs. Think about how they played when the team was healthy and fresh. You saw some great team ball. This year they should be able to sustain that.

I don't dislike melo, but NIX, TKF is right man..melo always talks about sht he's going to do, starts out doing it, then ends up the same ol ball hogging ways...you can't deny that!!

I can see even in the slow times of the year things don't change around here!

yellowboy90 wrote:yeah it's not like he has been a better three point shooter, increased his ball handling duties, changed his shot distribution, or become a better 3 point shooter.

let him prove it with deeds or there will be plenty of posters who will be turned off. he obviously can't pass properly off of drives but there is still some hope that he can hit rollers when necessary. i hope he works on passing on pick and rolls more than shooting and i hope he enjoys setting real picks and not be a ***** about it.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:melo as a knickerbocker is guilty until proven innocent. no more "ifs" with this overpaid underachiever. plenty of evidence has now piled up to basically call bs on what he says in what is now his 3rd offseason here.

let him prove it with deeds or there will be plenty of posters who will be turned off. he obviously can't pass properly off of drives but there is still some hope that he can hit rollers when necessary. i hope he works on passing on pick and rolls more than shooting and i hope he enjoys setting real picks and not be a ***** about it.

What evidence?

career highs in usage and career lows in assist rate. that is a recipe for destroying chemistry.

it's melo's team, right? then he's the problem if they don't do better than last year. agreed?

then there is the question of defense which in turn depends on conditioning.

selfish and out of shape, he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt from knick fans who suffered through two years of roster flush with the expectation that the knicks would finally be built into a contender.

i say if he falters that every knick fan hold his feet to the fire. god knows he doesn't know anything about personal accountability.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:melo as a knickerbocker is guilty until proven innocent. no more "ifs" with this overpaid underachiever. plenty of evidence has now piled up to basically call bs on what he says in what is now his 3rd offseason here.

let him prove it with deeds or there will be plenty of posters who will be turned off. he obviously can't pass properly off of drives but there is still some hope that he can hit rollers when necessary. i hope he works on passing on pick and rolls more than shooting and i hope he enjoys setting real picks and not be a ***** about it.

What evidence?

career highs in usage and career lows in assist rate. that is a recipe for destroying chemistry.

it's melo's team, right? then he's the problem if they don't do better than last year. agreed?

then there is the question of defense which in turn depends on conditioning.

selfish and out of shape, he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt from knick fans who suffered through two years of roster flush with the expectation that the knicks would finally be built into a contender.

i say if he falters that every knick fan hold his feet to the fire. god knows he doesn't know anything about personal accountability.

He wasn't out of shape last year. He came in and played fantastic and got a player of the week in November. He looked really thin at his camp and in photos from his time in Puerto Rico. He also said he was in better shape this summer then last. Seeing pictures of him made me wonder if he is slimming down to play the three. The team certainly improved dramatically last year. I think building on that should be expected. In regards to his being selfish, I think it's easy to dismiss the fact that he often was on the court with guys that had little to no offensive game ( I.e. brewer, Kidd, chandler). I think bargs, Metta and Beno should help some with scoring.