nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:I still think too many Fans and Media are down on the Knicks based on the loss to the Pacers. I don't put as much into that loss cuz I think the Knicks actually wore down and had injury to key players. We didn't have the needed depth to survive a war with the Pacers. Kidd, Camby, Sheed, KT and White weren't able to help or make it thru the season. JR and Melo were not healthy and Tyson was weak with no backup. STAT was just getting back and not able to really go hard. That's a lot of issues to deal with a young team that is fully healthy. Then when you add in the mistakes that Woody made it's amazing they went 6 games and came darned close to getting it to 7 in NY. IMO the loss to Indiana distorts everything or really revealed how weak the Knicks were by the time they go to the 2nd rd.

I don't see all of those things repeating again this season. If they do then we're cooked. However, a younger and deeper team will be able to compete with anyone in the East. I'm confident that the Knicks will be a match for the Nets or Bulls this year if both teams are relatively healthy. Better depth should help the Knicks in that dept. We won't have a AARP crew coming to camp this year.

It wasn't so much on that we loss to the Pacer's, it was how we loss
it was more of the lack of coaching, adjustments, poor rotations, poor TEAM work, getting abused by 1 player but putting in the same players that showed the inability to defend him or at least on the offensive end, get him (Hibbert) out of the paint for the REB's, and we had Copeland/Camby/and even Earl Barron glued to the bench

JR and Melo did not command double or triple teams, they were were 1v1 coverage for the most part, except for Hibbert in the paint
We were unable to get in the paint period, while the Pacer's were scoring everything in the paint with drives/layups/offensive boards, FT attempts, and wide open 3ptr's
While we continued to go ISO and shoot 30% and when there was team chemistry/ball movement, Melo/JR was sent back in to play the super hero, and Woody was fine with that
That is why I feel FA's don't want to come over here in a lower salary *also becomes a tradeable asset that the franchise would do for the next big name available* because it isn't a very successful way to play for the W and for their next contract

When the coach gives the green light to players that were playing with injuries and were fine shooting 30 shot attempts and making 10 shots out of the inefficient way, it is just a poor, ineffective and horrible strategy to boost stats for players that the coach favors

I mentioned the mistakes by Woody. He surely played a major role in the loss to the Pacers, but so did our health issues. With better health I think the Knicks would've been able to beat the Pacers. Although it's also true that Woody didn't use every player he had available to him. I really didn't understand not using Barron at all. We all know about Cope, but also sticking with guys that weren't getting it done made no sense. Woody also had the most simplistic battle plan I can imagine. Instead of making things harder for the Pacers he actually made it easier for them. The Pacers are the toughest team in the league to score on using ISO plays. You simply MUST use motion, picks and ball movement against them. You've got to make their bigs move and not just sit in the paint waiting for Knick players to penetrate.

I think more motion and options will be a huge part of the plan this year. That's why you bring in a Bargnani. Wherever he goes they have to pay attention. That will open up the floor for other guys on the Knicks. If he's inside the outside will have more holes. If he's outside the paint will be more open. Against our PnR teams just learned to sag into the paint on Tyson, cuz he's not a threat to shoot. They can't do that with AB on the floor. AB can PnR or PnP from ANYWHERE. AB is dangerous from the 3pt line all the way into the post. Then you add in a younger more able PG than Kidd, THJ and an improved Shump. I think this team will be stronger later in the season and playoffs than this year.

woodson now has two players to deal with who are inefficient at scoring and selfish and don't defend the position. if they are on the floor together it is very bad. if any soul out there wants to refute that assertion then have at it.

meanwhile it is a combination of a coach's ability to teach and a player's ability to learn. track records say something to me-- based on the track record it's a given that woodson can't really coach properly and, based on recent videos that were posted here, it's also a given that melo is a poor student-- one look at his efforts with hakeem sealed the deal for me.

anyhoo... if bargnani plays with the second unit you have a player who destroys chemistry unless he is working directly with prigioni on the picking game, which will limit his toxicity. but then that is what stoudemire requires and there's only one ball. and then there's the prospect of those two, stat and andre out there together on defense... yikes

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:I still think too many Fans and Media are down on the Knicks based on the loss to the Pacers. I don't put as much into that loss cuz I think the Knicks actually wore down and had injury to key players. We didn't have the needed depth to survive a war with the Pacers. Kidd, Camby, Sheed, KT and White weren't able to help or make it thru the season. JR and Melo were not healthy and Tyson was weak with no backup. STAT was just getting back and not able to really go hard. That's a lot of issues to deal with a young team that is fully healthy. Then when you add in the mistakes that Woody made it's amazing they went 6 games and came darned close to getting it to 7 in NY. IMO the loss to Indiana distorts everything or really revealed how weak the Knicks were by the time they go to the 2nd rd.

I don't see all of those things repeating again this season. If they do then we're cooked. However, a younger and deeper team will be able to compete with anyone in the East. I'm confident that the Knicks will be a match for the Nets or Bulls this year if both teams are relatively healthy. Better depth should help the Knicks in that dept. We won't have a AARP crew coming to camp this year.

It wasn't so much on that we loss to the Pacer's, it was how we loss
it was more of the lack of coaching, adjustments, poor rotations, poor TEAM work, getting abused by 1 player but putting in the same players that showed the inability to defend him or at least on the offensive end, get him (Hibbert) out of the paint for the REB's, and we had Copeland/Camby/and even Earl Barron glued to the bench

JR and Melo did not command double or triple teams, they were were 1v1 coverage for the most part, except for Hibbert in the paint
We were unable to get in the paint period, while the Pacer's were scoring everything in the paint with drives/layups/offensive boards, FT attempts, and wide open 3ptr's
While we continued to go ISO and shoot 30% and when there was team chemistry/ball movement, Melo/JR was sent back in to play the super hero, and Woody was fine with that
That is why I feel FA's don't want to come over here in a lower salary *also becomes a tradeable asset that the franchise would do for the next big name available* because it isn't a very successful way to play for the W and for their next contract

When the coach gives the green light to players that were playing with injuries and were fine shooting 30 shot attempts and making 10 shots out of the inefficient way, it is just a poor, ineffective and horrible strategy to boost stats for players that the coach favors

I mentioned the mistakes by Woody. He surely played a major role in the loss to the Pacers, but so did our health issues. With better health I think the Knicks would've been able to beat the Pacers. Although it's also true that Woody didn't use every player he had available to him. I really didn't understand not using Barron at all. We all know about Cope, but also sticking with guys that weren't getting it done made no sense. Woody also had the most simplistic battle plan I can imagine. Instead of making things harder for the Pacers he actually made it easier for them. The Pacers are the toughest team in the league to score on using ISO plays. You simply MUST use motion, picks and ball movement against them. You've got to make their bigs move and not just sit in the paint waiting for Knick players to penetrate.

I think more motion and options will be a huge part of the plan this year. That's why you bring in a Bargnani. Wherever he goes they have to pay attention. That will open up the floor for other guys on the Knicks. If he's inside the outside will have more holes. If he's outside the paint will be more open. Against our PnR teams just learned to sag into the paint on Tyson, cuz he's not a threat to shoot. They can't do that with AB on the floor. AB can PnR or PnP from ANYWHERE. AB is dangerous from the 3pt line all the way into the post. Then you add in a younger more able PG than Kidd, THJ and an improved Shump. I think this team will be stronger later in the season and playoffs than this year.

woodson now has two players to deal with who are inefficient at scoring and selfish and don't defend the position. if they are on the floor together it is very bad. if any soul out there wants to refute that assertion then have at it.

meanwhile it is a combination of a coach's ability to teach and a player's ability to learn. track records say something to me-- based on the track record it's a given that woodson can't really coach properly and, based on recent videos that were posted here, it's also a given that melo is a poor student-- one look at his efforts with hakeem sealed the deal for me.

anyhoo... if bargnani plays with the second unit you have a player who destroys chemistry unless he is working directly with prigioni on the picking game, which will limit his toxicity. but then that is what stoudemire requires and there's only one ball. and then there's the prospect of those two, stat and andre out there together on defense... yikes

GEEZ were do I begin? 1st off the aim of the coach is to put in place a style of play that is efficient and makes good use of the players he has. For the most part last year the Woodson did accomplish that goal in the regular season. No one is saying he's perfect, but he did have some success.

This team does have a lot of one way players, finishers and ISO players. That doesn't mean you can't have efficient offense. The reason they made sure to lock in Prigs is because he helps to run the offense and they play more efficiently when he's in the mix. Felton isn't a good PG but he can run PnR and if you have Tyson and AB that means you should be able to run PnR/PnP with either big. Those are very efficient plays for this team. With the shooting we have on this team they should be able to spread the floor and leave openings to attack the basket.

No matter how much you bad mouth this team it's not going to change the fact that they have some scorers on this team who are skilled and will cause problems for teams trying to stop all of the players we have. We literally have a more potent team than we did last year. Just remember how many guys were injured or couldn't contribute last year. We'll most likely replace all of those players with someone younger and better. The only one i'm sorry to see go was Cope.

It's going to be important who the Knicks add at PG and to round out the rest of the roster. Still the bulk of this team is returning and they all are used to playing with each other, so there's no reason to not have a good start to the season.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:I still think too many Fans and Media are down on the Knicks based on the loss to the Pacers. I don't put as much into that loss cuz I think the Knicks actually wore down and had injury to key players. We didn't have the needed depth to survive a war with the Pacers. Kidd, Camby, Sheed, KT and White weren't able to help or make it thru the season. JR and Melo were not healthy and Tyson was weak with no backup. STAT was just getting back and not able to really go hard. That's a lot of issues to deal with a young team that is fully healthy. Then when you add in the mistakes that Woody made it's amazing they went 6 games and came darned close to getting it to 7 in NY. IMO the loss to Indiana distorts everything or really revealed how weak the Knicks were by the time they go to the 2nd rd.

I don't see all of those things repeating again this season. If they do then we're cooked. However, a younger and deeper team will be able to compete with anyone in the East. I'm confident that the Knicks will be a match for the Nets or Bulls this year if both teams are relatively healthy. Better depth should help the Knicks in that dept. We won't have a AARP crew coming to camp this year.

It wasn't so much on that we loss to the Pacer's, it was how we loss
it was more of the lack of coaching, adjustments, poor rotations, poor TEAM work, getting abused by 1 player but putting in the same players that showed the inability to defend him or at least on the offensive end, get him (Hibbert) out of the paint for the REB's, and we had Copeland/Camby/and even Earl Barron glued to the bench

JR and Melo did not command double or triple teams, they were were 1v1 coverage for the most part, except for Hibbert in the paint
We were unable to get in the paint period, while the Pacer's were scoring everything in the paint with drives/layups/offensive boards, FT attempts, and wide open 3ptr's
While we continued to go ISO and shoot 30% and when there was team chemistry/ball movement, Melo/JR was sent back in to play the super hero, and Woody was fine with that
That is why I feel FA's don't want to come over here in a lower salary *also becomes a tradeable asset that the franchise would do for the next big name available* because it isn't a very successful way to play for the W and for their next contract

When the coach gives the green light to players that were playing with injuries and were fine shooting 30 shot attempts and making 10 shots out of the inefficient way, it is just a poor, ineffective and horrible strategy to boost stats for players that the coach favors

I mentioned the mistakes by Woody. He surely played a major role in the loss to the Pacers, but so did our health issues. With better health I think the Knicks would've been able to beat the Pacers. Although it's also true that Woody didn't use every player he had available to him. I really didn't understand not using Barron at all. We all know about Cope, but also sticking with guys that weren't getting it done made no sense. Woody also had the most simplistic battle plan I can imagine. Instead of making things harder for the Pacers he actually made it easier for them. The Pacers are the toughest team in the league to score on using ISO plays. You simply MUST use motion, picks and ball movement against them. You've got to make their bigs move and not just sit in the paint waiting for Knick players to penetrate.

I think more motion and options will be a huge part of the plan this year. That's why you bring in a Bargnani. Wherever he goes they have to pay attention. That will open up the floor for other guys on the Knicks. If he's inside the outside will have more holes. If he's outside the paint will be more open. Against our PnR teams just learned to sag into the paint on Tyson, cuz he's not a threat to shoot. They can't do that with AB on the floor. AB can PnR or PnP from ANYWHERE. AB is dangerous from the 3pt line all the way into the post. Then you add in a younger more able PG than Kidd, THJ and an improved Shump. I think this team will be stronger later in the season and playoffs than this year.

woodson now has two players to deal with who are inefficient at scoring and selfish and don't defend the position. if they are on the floor together it is very bad. if any soul out there wants to refute that assertion then have at it.

meanwhile it is a combination of a coach's ability to teach and a player's ability to learn. track records say something to me-- based on the track record it's a given that woodson can't really coach properly and, based on recent videos that were posted here, it's also a given that melo is a poor student-- one look at his efforts with hakeem sealed the deal for me.

anyhoo... if bargnani plays with the second unit you have a player who destroys chemistry unless he is working directly with prigioni on the picking game, which will limit his toxicity. but then that is what stoudemire requires and there's only one ball. and then there's the prospect of those two, stat and andre out there together on defense... yikes

GEEZ were do I begin? 1st off the aim of the coach is to put in place a style of play that is efficient and makes good use of the players he has. For the most part last year the Woodson did accomplish that goal in the regular season. No one is saying he's perfect, but he did have some success.

This team does have a lot of one way players, finishers and ISO players. That doesn't mean you can't have efficient offense. The reason they made sure to lock in Prigs is because he helps to run the offense and they play more efficiently when he's in the mix. Felton isn't a good PG but he can run PnR and if you have Tyson and AB that means you should be able to run PnR/PnP with either big. Those are very efficient plays for this team. With the shooting we have on this team they should be able to spread the floor and leave openings to attack the basket.

No matter how much you bad mouth this team it's not going to change the fact that they have some scorers on this team who are skilled and will cause problems for teams trying to stop all of the players we have. We literally have a more potent team than we did last year. Just remember how many guys were injured or couldn't contribute last year. We'll most likely replace all of those players with someone younger and better. The only one i'm sorry to see go was Cope.

It's going to be important who the Knicks add at PG and to round out the rest of the roster. Still the bulk of this team is returning and they all are used to playing with each other, so there's no reason to not have a good start to the season.

the regular season success you cite was a mirage. the team we saw in the playoffs was the direct result of the regular-season missteps by woodson.

i get it... he could not allow the team to slip to the 4th or 5th or 6th seed and risk losing in the first round again. he would have been fired if the team had lost the first round yet again and for the umpteenth time in melo's career.

but in so doing all he served to do was burn out players while allowing melo to increasingly revert to his usual losing way of playing basketball. and of course come the second round-- where you have truly top-echelon teams-- the knicks were exposed.

if woodson was not fighting for his job or trying to save face by getting to the second round, i think he would have gladly sacrificed a few wins in order to get the team to gel properly for the playoffs-- and yes that should have included benching laggards no matter what their pay grade.

it's one thing to coach limited and flawed players to play a certain style to maximize efficiency and quite another to have players who are (a) coachable and (b) willing and capable.

this team doesn't have enough of these types of players. the regular-season should be a laboratory where you don't take the path of least resistance and tolerate bad habits, which in a team sport has to do with selfishness/stupidity and lack of energy expended on defense.

this is what we saw last year where so many posters kept saying that "a win is a win."

no it isn't. sometimes a win is winning merely winning a short-term battle but losing the war. in fact with the knicks it's more than just "sometimes."

if the ball doesn't move properly then it all catches up with a team come the second round. if the players can't mesh their skills under duress the wheels come off. the regular season you need to establish identity and create a team that can adapt to any countermeasures.

the knicks last season were without an identity and lacked the ability to adapt.

dk7th wrote:the regular season success you cite was a mirage. the team we saw in the playoffs was the direct result of the regular-season missteps by woodson.

i get it... he could not allow the team to slip to the 4th or 5th or 6th seed and risk losing in the first round again. he would have been fired if the team had lost the first round yet again and for the umpteenth time in melo's career.

but in so doing all he served to do was burn out players while allowing melo to increasingly revert to his usual losing way of playing basketball. and of course come the second round-- where you have truly top-echelon teams-- the knicks were exposed.

if woodson was not fighting for his job or trying to save face by getting to the second round, i think he would have gladly sacrificed a few wins in order to get the team to gel properly for the playoffs-- and yes that should have included benching laggards no matter what their pay grade.

it's one thing to coach limited and flawed players to play a certain style to maximize efficiency and quite another to have players who are (a) coachable and (b) willing and capable.

this team doesn't have enough of these types of players. the regular-season should be a laboratory where you don't take the path of least resistance and tolerate bad habits, which in a team sport has to do with selfishness/stupidity and lack of energy expended on defense.

this is what we saw last year where so many posters kept saying that "a win is a win."

no it isn't. sometimes a win is winning merely winning a short-term battle but losing the war. in fact with the knicks it's more than just "sometimes."

if the ball doesn't move properly then it all catches up with a team come the second round. if the players can't mesh their skills under duress the wheels come off. the regular season you need to establish identity and create a team that can adapt to any countermeasures.

the knicks last season were without an identity and lacked the ability to adapt.

I'm not arguing that Woody has the right idea about how teams need to be coached in order to play sound BB from start to finish. I personally have never been sold on his coaching. I do think tho that ANY coach will be able to perform better when they have more quality options on the roster. In other words the better the talent the easier it is on the coach. Still Woody has to insist on Ball and Player movement. We had players speak out about that issue and they were right. The team played better when the ball moved and they weren't so predictable. The team was better when they executed properly and got great shots.

My thought is that when Woody went with Felton and Prigs the team got better ball and player movement. However, when Woody allowed things to get stagnant and we actually increased the ISO plays from an already LEAGUE leading amount in the regular season to an even HIGHER amount of ISO in the playoffs that was the end.

I believe Woody may have learned his lesson from this playoff failure. I think he will make better use of his full roster this time.

CrushAlot wrote:Moke Hamilton ‏@MokeHamilton now
You can say what you want about #Knicks lack of foresight and future, but their team got better for next year, offensively and defensively.

Moke Hamilton ‏@MokeHamilton now
Bargnani, though not a phenomenal talent, is better than Novak and World Peace is still a solid front court defender, though slowing down.

Moke Hamilton ‏@MokeHamilton now
Say what you want, but Shumpert, World Peace and Chandler on the floor for the Knicks is tough to score on. Offense? Another story.

Ha, just found this on youtube and found it pretty funny- Metta still capable of putting on a defensive clinic once in a while. Poor Gallo!: